Carlos Quentin traded to Padres

[hi8is]

Does anyone have a link to a video of Q and his hand injury of '08?

[Cali]

Viciedo had an injured hand last year.

 

I'm pretty sure he's had slow April's every season with the Sox. I'd just expect it to continue with the big club and cold weather in April

[Soxfest]

KW on trade.

 

San Diego came back and obviously put something on the table that attracted us,” White Sox GM Ken Williams said. “Both of these guys are guys that we can ultimately see, and we can see them very quickly here.”

 

[Kalapse]

Damn, this is old-school Kalapse. Are you going to post more in 2012, you wuss?

I typically make a run around this time of year, not necessarily a precursor for the year to come. If the Sox are as bad as we expect them to be: probably not. But hey: keep pissing me off and you never know.

[caulfield12]

I hope they can. If they move him and Floyd the payroll would be at ~92M and they could make a serious run at Cespedes. Sign him and put Viciedo on the block.

 

 

First thoughts went back to five years ago when I was celebrating New Year's on another bridge (last night with seemingly 10 million plus in Shanghai), that time in Prague. Danks/McCarthy. Darned if he didn't do it again, albeit this time a much LESS larger scale trade in the overall scheme of things.

 

First of all, Marty34, are you crazy? Have you ever seen Cespedes play? Have you even watched the video, which seemingly ranks right up there with the Dayan Viciedo Video of 2008?

 

Now you want the White Sox to fork over $30-50 million for this guy? Based on a hunch or theory?

 

Cespedes would arguably be playing all or most of 2012 in High A or AA ball, so how would trading Viciedo help at all?

 

That would make our OF DeAza, Rios and Lillibridge/Jordan Danks. That's honestly what you feel is a good idea? Trading Viciedo "low" is logical? Why/how?

 

 

Here's the thing, KW has added something like 7 or 9 arms (can anyone think of the others besides those listed below) which are of decent quality or above in the last 6-8 months, correct?

 

Don Cooper is one of the top 3-5 pitching coaches in baseball, yes?

 

Most of Soxtalk wanted to jettison Ozzie Guillen even before 2011 and we still got back two former Top 10 prospects from another organization for him.

 

 

In Marinez, Zach Stewart, Frasor (his upside is obvious limited, but he did suck with us last year), Molina, the two kids we just picked up from the Padres that both clearly have/had pretty good stuff...we're at least making SOME positive progress to building up our pitching depth chart/s in AA/AAA.

 

If nothing else, we're really filling up the back end of our bullpen for the short term with a ton of prospects.

Edited January 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Not to mention how can the difference between something like say $40 or $50 million even make sense to someone who has lived their life on rations?

The majority of the NBA and MLB and NFL have lived the majority of their lives "on rations".

[Quin]

I typically make a run around this time of year, not necessarily a precursor for the year to come. If the Sox are as bad as we expect them to be: probably not. But hey: keep pissing me off and you never know.

 

Well f*** you then.

 

(Is it working? We need more Kalapse on this board.)

 

Man, I really hope we sign one of the Cubans with some freed up money, which is why I could see Thornton and Floyd gone next.

[Dick Allen]

KW on trade.

 

San Diego came back and obviously put something on the table that attracted us,” White Sox GM Ken Williams said. “Both of these guys are guys that we can ultimately see, and we can see them very quickly here.”

He said the same thing about Marquez and Nunez.

[caulfield12]

It's like the Sox are trying to suck.

Couldn't KW have gotten more for CQ had he dealt him at the winter meetings?

How could anybody buy season tickets for this team?

Maybe a 10-game package if they have those. If I lived in Chicago, five games a summer would be more than enough trips to the Cell to watch this s*** develop.

 

 

Greg, we had to open up a spot in the line-up for Viciedo to play, period.

 

How many seasons has Quentin been healthy and consistently productive since August, 2008?

 

None, pretty much.

 

Is Quentin the type of player you want to pay $7-10 million down the road for one dimension only, power? Not when you have Viciedo and Dunn signed for 3+ year to do the same exact thing.

 

If nothing else, it's a sign to fans that we're finally going to give our younger players like Viciedo and DeAza (not super young, but should be in his prime) a shot to play full-time...whereas Quentin was never part of the plan for 2013.

 

If KW could have gotten more, he would have dealt him last year at the All-Star break. Every GM in baseball saw the same weaknesses in his overall game that we did, it's not nuclear physics why he wasn't the most desired player on the trade market. I think you're letting your 2008 The Carlos Quentin glasses color your judgment on this deal.

 

Not to mention his Jermaine Dye-ness in RF, where he has been one of the 3 worst defensive RF'ers in the game pretty consistently.

 

This is going to be one of those trades (like the CQ trade itself from the DBacks) that most people around baseball pay little attention to (because really who cares much about the Padres?) but looks like a steal when Quentin's on the shelf for 2-3 months and one of those two pitchers develops into something under the tutelage of Cooper and the minor league instructional staff.

 

If Beckham, Morel, Viciedo and Ramirez hit like they're capable of, as well as Rios and Dunn, then the lack of pop from DeAza isn't such a big issue, and DeAza actually slugged at am impressive clip last year compared to your guy Pierre.

 

Who would want to watch the likes of Mark Teahen, Juan Pierre and Quentin for another year? Not I.

 

Let's face it, Quentin had already peaked with the White Sox and totally gotten pull-happy and away from what made him a great hitter in 2008, and a league MVP-caliber player.

 

DeAza and Viciedo are fresh faces and will bring new energy and excitement to the team. We saw glimpses of it at the end of 2011.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

He said the same thing about Marquez and Nunez.

 

 

You would have preferred..."Carlos just wasn't worth the money he was going to get in arbitration. He's an injury-prone, one-dimensional player who broods too much and can't offset his defensive weaknesses with consistent offensive production. Dayan's my boy anyway, had to finally stick him in the line-up to justify that huge signing bonus that made me look like a Krazy Genius. And we don't give a crap about these 2 Padres' prospects, maybe Cooper can fix 'em, who the hell knows? Keith Law? He's hated me since the Sirotka Swindle. We just didn't want Carlos to go all Incredible Hulk on us if we non-tendered him, so we gave him some dignity to go with his departure."

Edited January 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

First thoughts went back to five years ago when I was celebrating New Year's on another bridge (last night with seemingly 10 million plus in Shanghai), that time in Prague. Danks/McCarthy. Darned if he didn't do it again, albeit this time a much LESS larger scale trade in the overall scheme of things.

 

First of all, Marty34, are you crazy? Have you ever seen Cespedes play? Have you even watched the video, which seemingly ranks right up there with the Dayan Viciedo Video of 2008?

 

Now you want the White Sox to fork over $30-50 million for this guy? Based on a hunch or theory?

 

Cespedes would arguably be playing all or most of 2012 in High A or AA ball, so how would trading Viciedo help at all?

 

That would make our OF DeAza, Rios and Lillibridge/Jordan Danks. That's honestly what you feel is a good idea? Trading Viciedo "low" is logical? Why/how?

 

 

Here's the thing, KW has added something like 7 or 9 arms (can anyone think of the others besides those listed below) which are of decent quality or above in the last 6-8 months, correct?

 

Don Cooper is one of the top 3-5 pitching coaches in baseball, yes?

 

Most of Soxtalk wanted to jettison Ozzie Guillen even before 2011 and we still got back two former Top 10 prospects from another organization for him.

 

 

In Marinez, Zach Stewart, Frasor (his upside is obvious limited, but he did suck with us last year), Molina, the two kids we just picked up from the Padres that both clearly have/had pretty good stuff...we're at least making SOME positive progress to building up our pitching depth chart/s in AA/AAA.

 

If nothing else, we're really filling up the back end of our bullpen for the short term with a ton of prospects.

 

1.) At 26, if Cespedes gets between $30-$50M he will not see the minors.

2.) A better pitching prospect than Molina is needed before I'm comfortable with the state of the starters going forward.

[caulfield12]

1.) At 26, if Cespedes gets between $30-$50M he will not see the minors.

2.) A better pitching prospect than Molina is needed before I'm comfortable with the state of the starters going forward.

 

 

Plenty of international free agents have been given huge amounts of money and not seen the majors right away.

 

Nobody in baseball thinks this kid is ready for big leagues in 2012...even on a non-contending team.

 

Everyone complains that Beckham was rushed through the system, and then we want to invest 3X-5X what we put into Viciedo and deal with the permanent repercussions when he flops and loses his confidence?

 

Obviously you're setting yourself up for the "trade Alexei Ramirez" comment.

 

By all means, go for it. Why not just package Ramirez and Matty Thornton together in a "super trade" to satisfy Marty alone?

 

You really want Escobar, Martinez or Tyler Kuhn to be our starting SS?

 

Lillibridge?

 

And you think you can just stick him there because he played the position "so-so" 2-3 years ago with the Braves and our team's going to win more than 70 games? Arguably, Brent has played much better because he could relax offensively, not having to worry about the stress of playing SS or a middle infield position (like 2B). Playing the OF is 10X more relaxing mentally.

 

Trade Ramirez but sign Danks? What's the point? We might as well just deal Floyd, Peavy, Ramirez, Thornton, Crain, Frasor, Ohman, Konerko, AJ, etc., get it over with one fell swoop and totally demoralize the entire fanbase.

 

Why are you obsessed with having another pitching prospect, anyway?

 

Our AAA rotation (especially with Zach Stewart there) and AA rotations will be strong as they have been in 2-3 years,

 

Last time I checked, we had 10 "super pitching prospects" about a decade ago and almost none of them panned out...the predicted dynasty never materialized until we acquired Jose Contreras and then it lasted for about 16 months, at most (2005/first half 2006).

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

1.) At 26, if Cespedes gets between $30-$50M he will not see the minors.

Frankly, I will be surprised if he gets that kind of money. Not astonished, but he seems like he belongs as a $15 million player. Too crazy of a risk more than that.

[Marty34]

Plenty of international free agents have been given huge amounts of money and not seen the majors right away.

 

Nobody in baseball thinks this kid is ready for big leagues in 2012...even on a non-contending team.

 

Everyone complains that Beckham was rushed through the system, and then we want to invest 3X-5X what we put into Viciedo and deal with the permanent repercussions when he flops and loses his confidence?

 

Obviously you're setting yourself up for the "trade Alexei Ramirez" comment.

 

By all means, go for it. Why not just package Ramirez and Matty Thornton together in a "super trade" to satisfy Marty alone?

 

You really want Escobar, Martinez or Tyler Kuhn to be our starting SS?

 

Lillibridge?

 

And you think you can just stick him there because he played the position "so-so" 2-3 years ago with the Braves and our team's going to win more than 70 games? Arguably, Brent has played much better because he could relax offensively, not having to worry about the stress of playing SS or a middle infield position (like 2B). Playing the OF is 10X more relaxing mentally.

 

Trade Ramirez but sign Danks? What's the point? We might as well just deal Floyd, Peavy, Ramirez, Thornton, Crain, Frasor, Ohman, Konerko, AJ, etc., get it over with one fell swoop and totally demoralize the entire fanbase.

 

Why are you obsessed with having another pitching prospect, anyway?

 

Our AAA rotation (especially with Zach Stewart there) and AA rotations will be strong as they have been in 2-3 years,

 

Last time I checked, we had 10 "super pitching prospects" about a decade ago and almost none of them panned out...the predicted dynasty never materialized until we acquired Jose Contreras and then it lasted for about 16 months, at most (2005/first half 2006).

 

1.) Cespedes will not get $30-$50M and start in AA

2.) The difference between Danks and Ramirez is obvious. Danks will be 27, Ramirez 31.

3.) There isn't one player on that roster, save Sale, that I would hesitate to deal to get a grade A starting prospect. As I've written, they've made nice strides so far shoring up the rotation.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Marty34

[caulfield12]

from baseballamerica.com

 

Simon Castro, rhp

Age: 23.

Born: April 9, 1988 in San Jose de los Llanos, Dominican Republic.

Ht.: 6-5. Wt.: 210. Bats: R. Throws: R.

Career Transactions: Signed as nondrafted free agent by Padres, May 8, 2006.

 

Club (League) Class W L ERA G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP

Tucson (PCL) AAA 2 2 10.17 6 6 0 25.2 37 30 29 5 18 21 2.14

San Antonio (TL) AA 5 6 4.33 16 16 0 89.1 95 48 43 9 16

73 1.24

Total 7 8 5.63 22 22 0 115 132 78 72 14 34 94 1.44

 

Owner of the best slider in the Padres system prior to the trade, Castro seemed poised for big things in 2011 as he tackled Triple-A for the first time, but the bubble burst early. Castro landed on the disabled list with a lat injury after six starts for Tucson yielded a 10.17 ERA and 21-18 K-BB ratio. He recovered somewhat after a demotion to San Antonio in June, and he closed out the season on a high note, notching a 35-5 K-BB ratio and 2.53 ERA over his final seven starts. At fault for Castro's regression: out-of-whack mechanics in which he failed to extend on the front side of his delivery and also recoiled his arm. He's always pitched with a long arm action, so the Padres traced his troubles back to his starting assignment in the 2010 Futures Game, in which he allowed two runs in one inning. He hasn't pitched with the same consistency since. Castro's velocity dipped into the high 80s early in the 2011 season before he recovered to pitch at 92-94 mph and touch 96 with tailing action later in the year. His slider showed trademark late bite and 82-84 mph velocity at times, though just as often it resembled a three-quarters slurve. The changeup could be a fringe-average pitch in the mid-80s with more refinement. If Castro rediscovers his two plus pitches and control he still profiles as a mid-rotation arm or set-up reliever.

 

Pedro Hernandez, lhp

Age: 22.

Born: April 12, 1989 in Barquisimeto, Venezuela.

Ht.: 5-10. Wt.: 210. Bats: L. Throws: L.

Career Transactions: Signed as nondrafted free agent by Padres, Nov. 1, 2006.

 

Club (League) Class W L ERA G GS SV IP H R ER HR BB SO WHIP

Lake Elsinore (CAL) HiA 5 0 2.70 15 6 0 56.2 52 19 17 3 6 44 1.02

Tucson (PCL) AAA 2 1 6.00 4 4 0 18 28 17 12 3 6 7 1.89

San Antonio (TL) AA 3 2 3.48 9 8 0 41.1 39 17 16 4 10 43 1.19

Total 10 3 3.49 28 18 0 116 119 53 45 10 22 94 1.22

 

Hernandez always has thrown a quality changeup and shown strong command, but his prospect status began to take hold when his velocity began to creep up halfway through the 2010 season. Signed at age 18 out of Venezuela, Hernandez initially topped out near 87 mph but that has since become the low point for his fastball range. The Padres say the lefty has touched 95 on occasion, but more often he sits in the low 90s and works both sides of the plate with a riding fastball. Batters don't pick up the ball well against the short and stocky Hernandez, which helps his solid-average, low-80s changeup play up. Hernandez's mid- to low-80s slider/cutter doesn't elicit much praise, but it could be a fringe-average offering for him in time. Hernandez may not have a deep enough repertoire to start in the big leagues, but he could grow into a nifty lefty reliever capable of facing both righties and lefties.

 

 

 

So we have another nice piece to go with Hector Santiago in terms of our LH pitching depth (both starting and relieving)...probably makes it even more certain that Matt Thornton is traded FOR the best haul of the offseason (in comparison to what many are saying about Molina).

 

Marinez (Marlins) and this Hernandez kid will definitely get long looks for the pen coming out of ST. The Sox are going to have to decide ASAP about whether they want Stewart, Santiago and Hernandez as starters or relievers for 2012.

 

Seems more likely now they'll try Hernandez to go with Ohman and let Santiago continue to build up his innings pitched and experience in getting AAA hitters out with the Knights.

 

Here's the problem with scouting reports. Just reading them, it makes it look like KW just fleeced the Padres, acquiring two quality arms (one of them a valuable lefty) for a piece he probably considered non-tendering at different points in the 2011 season (like when he was on the DL).

 

 

Edited January 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

1.) Cespedes will not get $30-$50M and start in AA

2.) The difference between Danks and Ramirez is obvious. Danks will be 27, Ramirez 31.

3.) There isn't one player on that roster, save Sale, that I would hesitate to deal to get a grade A starting prospect. As I've written, they've made nice strides so far shoring up the rotation.

 

 

Ramirez isn't Magglio Ordonez or C-Lee, he doesn't have the type of frame and body that just goes south like an Andruw Jones in his 30's.

 

There's no reason the White Sox can't be a competitive team in 2012 and 2013.

 

There are certainly arguments why they might not be competitive...but you can't make a convincing case it will be impossible for them to compete in the Al Central, when history shows otherwise.

 

Some would argue Sale should be traded before he loses his value as a starter or suffers a debilitating injury. Of course, upside is off the charts. How confident can we be that will happen? 50/50, at best. Same thing with Viciedo. Although very very few GM's in baseball would trade either one of these two guys without seeing what they can do first.

 

BY THE WAY, does anyone think it's a coincidence that we're adding so many Venezuelan players now that Ozzie's NOT the manager?

My count, that's 3, at least.

Edited January 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

Castro, 23, went 7-8 with a 5.63 earned run average in 22 starts between Double-A San Antonio and Triple-A Tucson last season.

 

Going into the 2011 season, Castro was considered one of the top three prospects in the Padres system. But after six starts with Tucson (2-2, 10.17 ERA), the right-hander was detoured to extended spring training and returned to San Antonio, where he finished stronger with the Missions (5-6, 4.33 ERA in 16 starts).

 

Originally signed as a non-drafted free agent in May of 2006, Castro was 29-33 with a 4.24 ERA in 117 games (113 starts), over six minor league seasons in the Padres organization.

 

The left-handed Hernandez, 22, went 10-3 with a 3.49 ERA in 28 games (18 starts) across three levels in the Padres organization last season. The Venezuela native split the majority of his 2011 season between Single-A Lake Elsinore and Double-A San Antonio, going 8-2 with a 3.03 ERA and 87 strikeouts against 16 walks between the two clubs. He also made four starts for Triple-A Tucson last season and has a fastball in the 92-95 mph range.

Edited January 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[Lemon_44]

I would have liked to see what an OF of Quentin, De Aza, and Viciedo could have done. I was all for picking up Rios at the time, but having that guy on the roster continues to drag the team down. If Rios and his lousy contract weren't on the roster we'd likely see the OF mentioned above and Quentin's salary wouldn't have been as big an issue. I can't remember ever hating a baseball player as much as I do Rios.

[southsider2k5]

The majority of the NBA and MLB and NFL have lived the majority of their lives "on rations".

 

There really isn't much of a comparison between the US and Cuba.

[southsider2k5]

He said the same thing about Marquez and Nunez.

 

And he said that about Danks and Quentin too. But by all means focus on the worst

[caulfield12]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/de...ntin-white-sox/

 

Dick, you're really not going to give up, lol.

 

I think if you took ANY GM in baseball who had an 11 year track record with one team, you could find 25+ dubious transactions, like the Berry/Barry one, Wells/Fogg/Lowe for Ritchie, Durham for Adkins, etc.

 

We're just going to have to deal with him (KW) for at least another two years, so we might as well embrace that fact and come to terms with it fully.

 

[Balta1701]

I would have liked to see what an OF of Quentin, De Aza, and Viciedo could have done. I was all for picking up Rios at the time, but having that guy on the roster continues to drag the team down. If Rios and his lousy contract weren't on the roster we'd likely see the OF mentioned above and Quentin's salary wouldn't have been as big an issue. I can't remember ever hating a baseball player as much as I do Rios.

Like it or not, Rios has to play next year. That's the only thing we can do.

[Cali]

Like it or not, Rios has to play next year. That's the only thing we can do.

 

The one thing I'll never understand and mind you, I'm an IDIOT when it comes to baseball as a business and finances -- but if the Sox were willing to pay Rios his full salary while "benched" (for that lovely 5 minutes period in 2011) why not just release the guy and pay him? For a team worth hundreds of millions, what's the difference really if you're adding another $450,000 (or so) for a minor leaguer to take Rios spot on the roster? If you're sick of the player and think there's no more production left in him and you're going to have to pay the man anyway who cares?

 

Any dream trade where the Sox get rid of Rios would entail picking up most of his contract anyway

[jasonxctf]

So as of now, I'm guessing this is the 2012 lineup?

 

1. DeAza-LF

2. Ramirez-SS

3. Konerko-1B

4. Dunn-DH

5. Viciedo-RF

6. Rios-CF

7. AJP-C

8. Beckham-2B

9. Morel-3B

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

So as of now, I'm guessing this is the 2012 lineup?

 

1. DeAza-LF

2. Ramirez-SS

3. Konerko-1B

4. Dunn-DH

5. Viciedo-RF

6. Rios-CF

7. AJP-C

8. Beckham-2B

9. Morel-3B

 

Looks about right, although I could see Morel taking the #2 spot in an effort to put Alexei is a more run-producing spot like #7 after Rios. Morel showed pretty solid bat control at then end of the year.

Edited January 1, 2012 by JoeCoolMan24