Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:52 PM) So he was worth $12 million last year, that's not bad, although fangraphs "worth" I have never taken too seriously. I think the only reason KW settled for this return is Viciedo. If he wasn't in the organization, KW would have held out for more or just kept Quentin. If you want to take it 1 step further, if you include 2008, Carlos Quentin has been worth on average about $7.5 million a year. You are right though, we wouldn't have taken this trade without Viciedo, but it's clearly the right move. KW hasn't created any real "Holes" by any of his trades so far, that's been this year's M.O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Well, kinda good news for Carlos Quentin. He returns to California. He played for Stanford. And he returns to the NL West where he must know some of the pitchers. He could have some good success there and I can cheer for him when he plays the CuBS. lol! Wish that we could have gotten more but maybe these are pitchers that KW/Cooper wanted. Guess that they think Cooper can help improve. However, we have a ton of unproven arms now in our minor system. I hope that the next minor league prospects we get are infielders. Maybe a first baseman. Paulie only has two more years left on his contract. And we could use a little bit more insurance in the infield. Who do we bring up if one of our infielders goes on the DL or something? Escobar or the Ozzie guy that we got from Miami. No real good hitter to bring up from AAA if we need another bat. Edited December 31, 2011 by sunofgold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 There just isn't a good market for slow, injury prone corner guys. CQ has hit .245/.336/.479 over the last three years while missing on average 46 games a year. 2008 is ancient history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 and also part of Keith Law's take: This is better than just a salary dump for the White Sox, acquiring two projected relievers for one year of Quentin at a salary approaching the likely value of his production. Simon Castro has worked as a starter throughout his minor league career with a solid-average fastball that might touch 94-95 on occasion and an above-average slider as well as a fringy changeup. His command is well behind his control and he's a poor athlete; those factors and his unspectacular strikeout rates (and lack of a plus pitch) point toward a career in the bullpen rather than in the back of a rotation, although if his velocity plays up in relief he could be very effective for 70 innings a year. Pedro Hernandez has similar velocity and better control, but from the left side with a better changeup than Castro has and less of a breaking ball; he also projects as a reliever or fifth starter, but not a specialist. Six years of control on both guys for one year of Quentin sounds like a good exchange for me. Which I'm sure the "KLAW HAS A WHITE SOX BIAS!!!" tard posters will completely ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Don't mind this deal. We lose almost $8 million off the roster. Let's hope Copper can do his magic on Castro mechanics and get him back throwing strikes. This brings 2 quality arms to our farm system that we sorely needed. You can never have enough lefty relievers who have the potential to make the big league roster. This trade should help everyone realize what potential deal we can get for Thornton. Which will be very similar to what we got for Quentin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:20 PM) and also part of Keith Law's take: Which I'm sure the "KLAW HAS A WHITE SOX BIAS!!!" tard posters will completely ignore. He probably got scared of my angry tweet a couple weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:34 PM) Well, no s***. I'm looking at factors outside of money. You have to assume the top offers will be fairly close unless someone makes a ridiculous bid then he goes there, so there's really no point in discussing any of this unless we're going to explore factors outside of money. If I was from Cuba, which is a pretty isolated place, especially from the US obviously, and I was going to play baseball in the US, the fact that two dudes I knew were going to be on my team would be pretty big deal to me. These guys are accustomed to hardly knowing where their next meal is going to come from ...now they're going to be getting paid millions and millions of dollars. Now obviously any offer the Sox or Marlins make has to be in the same stratosphere as the top offer, but if they are anywhere close, I have to think those two choices have a huge advantage over the others. Especially if he calls up Mr Contreras and asks him his thoughts. Edited December 31, 2011 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) Don't mind this deal. We lose almost $8 million off the roster. Let's hope Copper can do his magic on Castro mechanics and get him back throwing strikes. This brings 2 quality arms to our farm system that we sorely needed. You can never have enough lefty relievers who have the potential to make the big league roster. This trade should help everyone realize what potential deal we can get for Thornton. Which will be very similar to what we got for Quentin. If you can't get a lot more for Thornton than what we got here for Carlos, there's no reason to deal him. Right now we're at about $99 million commits for this year, then a $4 million buyout for Peavy, then another $5 million or so to cover league-minimum, pre-arb guys, and we're probably where we need to be salary wise. The only reason to dump Matty is if we get a legit offer for him that makes the team significantly better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 01:48 PM) If this helps us sign Cespedes, great trade. I really have no idea how to rate the prospects...................maybe we get Madson too, who knows. Happy New Year! People need to wake up and stop talking about possibly signing the Cubans. Cespedes/Soler are a pipe dream. Sox are trying to reduce salary not add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:28 PM) If you can't get a lot more for Thornton than what we got here for Carlos, there's no reason to deal him. Right now we're at about $99 million commits for this year, then a $4 million buyout for Peavy, then another $5 million or so to cover league-minimum, pre-arb guys, and we're probably where we need to be salary wise. The only reason to dump Matty is if we get a legit offer for him that makes the team significantly better. Don't know too many teams willing give up a good prospects for 2 yr/12.5 million contract including the buyout for a 36 year old lefty reliever. Not happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Always good to see Kenny trade a name player for guys nobody has ever heard of. Nice job, Ken. Keep selling those season tix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) Don't know too many teams willing give up a good prospects for 2 yr/12.5 million contract including the buyout for a 36 year old lefty reliever. Not happening Then let's hold onto him. He remains a great asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) People need to wake up and stop talking about possibly signing the Cubans. Cespedes/Soler are a pipe dream. Sox are trying to reduce salary not add. I think it is a long shot as well, but the Sox are definitely taking a look at these guys..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) The key to the season is to see if the White Sox change their philosophy after new collective bargaining agreement. It will be interesting to see if Reinsdorf and Williams agree to pick the best players available and use all of their allotment money given in the draft and international signings. That is a must to turning around this organization. Edited December 31, 2011 by PolishPrince34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (PolishPrince34 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:29 PM) People need to wake up and stop talking about possibly signing the Cubans. Cespedes/Soler are a pipe dream. Sox are trying to reduce salary not add. Sox are also willing to spend money to build a future (ie, signing Danks to long term deal). We sign Cepedes, and we get him through the 2017 season at the minimum. Edited December 31, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:41 PM) Sox are also willing to spend money to build a future (ie, signing Danks to long term deal). We sign Cepedes, and we get him through the 2017 season a the minimum. This. I am worried about a player that hasn't been tested by basically any reference point that we have, though. I'm okay with rolling the dice though - more fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Padres GM Josh Byrnes was the GM for the Diamondbacks when we traded for Quentin. KW traded Chris Carter to the DBacks for Carlos Quentin. What a steal! Let us hope that KW stole from Byrnes again! OK, probably not. lol. However, Byrnes will be picking up the tab on TCQ especially if they extend his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 05:43 PM) This. I am worried about a player that hasn't been tested by basically any reference point that we have, though. I'm okay with rolling the dice though - more fun. However, our track record with Cubans (2/2) has been very good. Small sample yes, but it seems like when take a risk on them we have done our homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:45 PM) However, our track record with Cubans (2/2) has been very good. Small sample yes, but it seems like when take a risk on them we have done our homework. You either forgot Contreras or Viciedo. Maybe Minoso too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 05:45 PM) You either forgot Contreras or Viciedo. Maybe Minoso too. I didn't include Contreras because I meant guys who we signed straight off the Island, not acquired via trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 We now have the least power in the outfield from what I can see. Put that with a .200 hitting 2b and no power at 3b either, the signing of Danks looks even stranger now. Williams has no clue. this team can't compete in the AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) We now have the least power in the outfield from what I can see. Put that with a .200 hitting 2b and no power at 3b either, the signing of Danks looks even stranger now. Williams has no clue. this team can't compete in the AL Power dropoff from Quentin to Viciedo shouldn't be too drastic, but yea, this OF is rather weak power-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 03:47 PM) We now have the least power in the outfield from what I can see. Put that with a .200 hitting 2b and no power at 3b either, the signing of Danks looks even stranger now. Williams has no clue. this team can't compete in the AL Viciedo doesn't have 20-25 HR potential? That's what we got from Quentin the last 3 seasons and De Aza isn't a power upgrade over Juan Pierre? It sucks sticking speed players in left like we've been doing since Carlos Lee departed but this is nothing new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 04:49 PM) Power dropoff from Quentin to Viciedo shouldn't be too drastic, but yea, this OF is rather weak power-wise. 2 of the 3 OF positions, going around all of baseball, had average OPS values of ~.725 last year. RF was the only one higher, at about .775. I think you guys are imaginging steroid-era outfields for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Dec 31, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) I don't see this team returning to the playoffs while KW is still GM. He's NOT the GM to rebuild this roster. It's like the Sox are trying to suck. Couldn't KW have gotten more for CQ had he dealt him at the winter meetings? How could anybody buy season tickets for this team? Maybe a 10-game package if they have those. If I lived in Chicago, five games a summer would be more than enough trips to the Cell to watch this s*** develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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