elrockinMT Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 08:43 PM) Carlos Quentin might well have been worth less than Frasor, if you consider how much each of them are getting paid next year. You are really stretching that comparison. Apparently Danks wasn't valued as much as we must have thought either and he got $13M a year to stay. I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 What's the payroll sitting at now? I wonder if Kenny is done trimming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. Yeah. That GM should have offered to resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) If you would have read what I posted, I'm not mad at this particular trade, but some are going to make these "prospects" out to be far more than they really are. For Quentin, I'm not upset they traded him, it was very obvious it would happen. I think the return is like this return. Nothing. I believe he should be worth a little more than that. Both of the guys from the Padres could impact our team as early as ST, particularly Hernandez. And the other one was 2-3 in the Jays' system the previous year, so it's not like the guy is chopped liver...all things considered, the return for Quentin was much better, and the arguments were probably about equivalent for dumping both of them without any return by not offering arbitration. If you could get the same type of return for Will Ohman, wouldn't you do it? Now, if we traded Crain and Thornton and received nothing back, it would be a shocker. Still, Matty's lost a lot of shine from his star because of 2011, his age, concerns about a fall-off by a tick or two in his stuff...his quasi-closer salary, etc. However, with no FA lefties better than the likes of Darren Oliver and Arthur Rhodes, KW controls a very valuable market if he chooses to sell off Matt to the highest bidder out there, like the Yankees (potentially). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:48 PM) What's the payroll sitting at now? I wonder if Kenny is done trimming. We're at about $97 million in commitments, then another $6 million or so in league-minimum guys to fill out the roster, then there's a $4 million buyout for Peavy at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:48 PM) What's the payroll sitting at now? I wonder if Kenny is done trimming. About $96M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:04 PM) There doesn't seem to be much "value". The 22 year old has been terrible and the other kid the Sox passed on drafting 17 times. I don't necessarily think this is a bad trade, it may enable the Sox to sign the Cuban or bring someone else on board, but the current return is really nothing and considering they could have let him walk for nothing, it makes picking up his option a curious decision, but as it works out, no harm, no foul. Drop the draft pick rankings stuff. Both were guys who went way over slots in the later rounds. Jaye was paid like a third rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:48 PM) We're at about $97 million in commitments, then another $6 million or so in league-minimum guys to fill out the roster, then there's a $4 million buyout for Peavy at the end of the year. So we're to that mythical $20 million cut that many insiders projected, based on disappointing box office returns. And you have the mystery numbers for Jake Peavy coming back in 2010/11 in the form of insurance subsidies/write-offs. And we still have Crain, Ohman, Thornton, Floyd and possibly AJ that could all go in the next 3-4 months...and Konerko if they go off the deep end. Peavy getting traded would mean he's nearly in 2007 form, and that puts us right back in the playoff hunt, but saving that $4 million buyout would be a nice bonus that could be invested elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:50 PM) About $96M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:35 PM) I don't care how good your farm system is, if a guy isn't in your top 20, he's not very elite, even if it makes him a top 5 or top 10 in the White Sox system. Did you expect more for allowing the Jays the privilege of paying Jeff Frasor $3.5M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) Carlos Quentin might well have been worth less than Frasor, if you consider how much each of them are getting paid next year. Way off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) Drop the draft pick rankings stuff. Both were guys who went way over slots in the later rounds. Jaye was paid like a third rounder. You would have expected one of the friendly "White Sox Family" draft picks to have made an impact by now, based on their draft positions and bonuses, haha. We've had some comical ones with the kids of KW, Ozzie, Shaffer, someone's daughter, I forget who it was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:53 PM) So we're to that mythical $20 million cut that many insiders projected, based on disappointing box office returns. And you have the mystery numbers for Jake Peavy coming back in 2010/11 in the form of insurance subsidies/write-offs. And we still have Crain, Ohman, Thornton, Floyd and possibly AJ that could all go in the next 3-4 months...and Konerko if they go off the deep end. Peavy getting traded would mean he's nearly in 2007 form, and that puts us right back in the playoff hunt, but saving that $4 million buyout would be a nice bonus that could be invested elsewhere. You can pretty much call John Danks salary cut, as we just moved Danks into Mark Buehrles salary spot, at least for next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) Drop the draft pick rankings stuff. Both were guys who went way over slots in the later rounds. Jaye was paid like a third rounder. Then why didn't the Sox draft him in the 3rd or 4th round? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) Then why didn't the Sox draft him in the 3rd or 4th round? The same reason 29 other teams didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) You are really stretching that comparison. Apparently Danks wasn't valued as much as we must have thought either and he got $13M a year to stay. I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. And only $8 million this year. It's not until the future forward years the numbers really pick up, when his limited NTC kicks in correspondingly. We're still in "win now/trade in 2013" mode with Danks, in all likelihood. There's flexibility to go either way depending on 2012 results and attendance figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) The same reason 29 other teams didn't. Because he isn't actually that good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) Then why didn't the Sox draft him in the 3rd or 4th round? Because KW didn't have any more kids available (at least with the same family name)....? Sorry, bad joke. Poor KW Edited January 1, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) Because he isn't actually that good? The all-mighty AA gave him third round money. He has to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) You are really stretching that comparison. Apparently Danks wasn't valued as much as we must have thought either and he got $13M a year to stay. I think what I am most upset about is the complete lack of firm and understandeable direction and the willingness to overlook past fiascos made by our GM. It serves no good purpose to let anyone know what the plan is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) The all-mighty AA gave him third round money. He has to be good. Knew that one was coming, lol. Where's j4l with his take today, watching NFL or sleeping off the weekend still? I sincerely hope we can't still be the worst MLB farm system in the game at this point. Let's hope we can progress to 25th-27th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) Knew that one was coming, lol. Where's j4l with his take today, watching NFL or sleeping off the weekend still? I sincerely hope we can't still be the worst MLB farm system in the game at this point. Let's hope we can progress to 25th-27th. We've loaded up on C/C+ prospects. That really can't move a system that much, really at all. Edited January 1, 2012 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) It serves no good purpose to let anyone know what the plan is. Hey, isn't that what Mao and Stalin said...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) The all-mighty AA gave him third round money. He has to be good. Considering it was the same draft the Sox picked a guy who thought he was top 3 round talent in round 22, then had his big mouthed brother say the only reason no one drafted poor little Ozney before the 22nd round was because the Sox said they were drafting him, maybe the Blue Jays announced to the world they were taking this guy so that scared everyone else off. I never knew the draft worked that way until Oney enlightened me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 1, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) We've loaded up on C/C+ prospects. That really can't move a system that much, really at all. The kid we got from the Padres has all the ability in the world to be a B+ or better, just like Molina. You start the Futures Game, that means everyone is baseball is aware of your existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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