greg775 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Through this topic, I just learned I still have some hope for Dunn. In thinking of the trade, I actually thought Dunn might turn it around with the Cubs and I can't see Soriano doing anything of note with the Sox except swing that horribly big bat and miss most of the time or pop the ball up. Cmon Dunn. Hit 45 homers this year. We'll prolly win the division if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 7, 2012 -> 03:16 AM) Dunn should be tradable to a N. L. team. He only had one bad season, and it was as DH in a new league. There is likely some N. L. team that wouldn't mind sticking him back at first base. If the Sox could pay a modest portion of that contract, I think he's movable. Then I would go after Kendry Morales. The Angels have no place for him with Pujols and Trumbo, and the injury makes him questionable. It would be a low risk acquisition as he is not owed any big money. He is a monster versus RHP and a good defensive first baseman, it they want to spell Konerko occasionally. Of course, he would have to pass a physical, but I'd love him as the left handed bat in our lineup. He's not a bad hitter from the left side, as well. Then there is the Cuban connection. He could be one more reason for Cespedes, or any other Cuban defector, to consider coming to the South Side. NO one would touch Dunn without a Zambrano like pick up of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 65-75%...but not 80-90% Someone would do that...a bit similar to the Jim Thome situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) 65-75%...but not 80-90% Someone would do that...a bit similar to the Jim Thome situation. If Adam Dunn had last season because of an injury, and he missed 2/3 of the year, and he had a reasonable shot at recovering from the injury, that would be one thing. Jim Thome didn't just stop hitting for no obvious reason. Jim Thome might have been done, but there was plenty of reason to believe this guy's down season was due to injury and he could come back from that injury. No one has a clue what happened to Adam Dunn last year. It's basically unprecedented. No one would gamble on him coming back without knowing what in the world that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 The reasons I don't see this happening is: Soriano is a right handed batter and on the Sox that addition makes for a poor balance of lefty and righty hitters. He hit better than Dunn, but you hope Dunn recovers in 2012 Adding Soriano only makes the OF situation more crowded plus I don't see Soriano as a very good defender Alfonso is owed around $54M still and Dunn is close to that, but maybe a year less in money? There wouldn't be any salary dump I am sure regardless of what you might think of a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 03:15 PM) The reasons I don't see this happening is: Soriano is a right handed batter and on the Sox that addition makes for a poor balance of lefty and righty hitters. He hit better than Dunn, but you hope Dunn recovers in 2012 Adding Soriano only makes the OF situation more crowded plus I don't see Soriano as a very good defender Alfonso is owed around $54M still and Dunn is close to that, but maybe a year less in money? There wouldn't be any salary dump I am sure regardless of what you might think of a trade. $44 million left on Dunn...about $40 for Rios. Rios for Soriano would be a lot better move....financially, and Rios is much more of a negative force or cancer than Dunn apparently. The main problem there is we're not sure if DeAza 1) is an everyday player and 2) how well he can play CF for 150+ games. Of course, we have Lillibridge to back him up, but most would prefer to deal Soriano for Rios and stick DeAza in CF with Soriano/Dunn in LF. Plus we really need that LH power bat to balance the line-up, somehow. It can't be AJ or Kendry Morales to do it. Edited January 8, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) The main problem there is we're not sure if DeAza 1) is an everyday player and 2) how well he can play CF for 150+ games. Of course, we have Lillibridge to back him up, but most would prefer to deal Soriano for Rios and stick DeAza in CF with Soriano/Dunn in LF. What's more likely...Soriano + Dunn playing a decent LF or Rios having a good year with the bats next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 05:00 PM) What's more likely...Soriano + Dunn playing a decent LF or Rios having a good year with the bats next year? Honestly feel better about Dunn than Rios. But Dunn just having cratered for one year and returning simply seems more likely. Then again, Rios' 2009-11 is pretty unprecedented as well. Probably the guys in the F.O. and clubhouse have a much better idea than we do. As far as Rios hitting well again, ???. Let's hope that Ventura and a new hitting instructor get through to him, because he simulataneously went from one of the best fielders in the game to one of the worst for his position, as well. Every aspect of his game became the dictionary definition of tepid, disenchanted, disinterested, lackadaisical. Edited January 8, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You didn't answer my question. I asked about Dunn and Soriano being able to play a decent LF. I'd call the chances of that happening basically 0%. Rios at least has some chance of htiting next year. Soriano will NOT play a decent LF. Adam Dunn will also...NOT play an adequate LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 06:17 PM) You didn't answer my question. I asked about Dunn and Soriano being able to play a decent LF. I'd call the chances of that happening basically 0%. Rios at least has some chance of htiting next year. Soriano will NOT play a decent LF. Adam Dunn will also...NOT play an adequate LF. Rios for Soriano, Dunn is the full-time DH still and Soriano platoons with Dunn and plays 2B full-time once Beckham goes into the tank for good, lol. DeAza, Lillibridge and Viciedo/Cespedes is ur outfield. It will never happen, but hey, we tried Josh Fields in LF, too. We can use part of the cash we receive back with Soriano on Cespedes....$10 million or so. Edited January 8, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 05:17 PM) You didn't answer my question. I asked about Dunn and Soriano being able to play a decent LF. I'd call the chances of that happening basically 0%. Rios at least has some chance of htiting next year. Soriano will NOT play a decent LF. Adam Dunn will also...NOT play an adequate LF. Statistically Rios played one of the worst Cfs in all of baseball last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:49 AM) Statistically Rios played one of the worst Cfs in all of baseball last year. I hate watching Rios play the outfield. He is good to flat out drop a handful of fly balls a year, ala Soriano. Man, I hate the fact he is a White Sox. We aren't winning anything as long as he is playing for us. He's just like Jose Guillen the former Royal loafer/team ugh. Hopefully Robin will bench him since everybody on here thinks Ozzie only played him to spite KW. If that's the case truly, hopefully Robin will sit his ass the first time he loafs. Edited January 9, 2012 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 And then we'll have a $40 million nightmare and clubhouse cancer on our hands, like Milton Bradley. No thanks. I think Rios will have a nice rebound with some positive reaffirmation/support from basically what will amount to a new coaching staff. That tends to have a huge effect on most rosters, at least in ST and the first half of the season. Sustaining it all the way through September, that's another question altogether. But look how far the Broncos have ridden Tebow against all odds, with all the critics in the world ready to pounce after any slip-ups. If the AXIS OF UNDERPERFORMING FOUR all play well, odds are at least 50/50 that should put us on the cusp of contention. Then we can start talking about unloading their contracts. But sitting on the bench collecting dust and cobwebs, forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 04:40 AM) And then we'll have a $40 million nightmare and clubhouse cancer on our hands, like Milton Bradley. No thanks. I think Rios will have a nice rebound with some positive reaffirmation/support from basically what will amount to a new coaching staff. That tends to have a huge effect on most rosters, at least in ST and the first half of the season. Sustaining it all the way through September, that's another question altogether. But look how far the Broncos have ridden Tebow against all odds, with all the critics in the world ready to pounce after any slip-ups. If the AXIS OF UNDERPERFORMING FOUR all play well, odds are at least 50/50 that should put us on the cusp of contention. Then we can start talking about unloading their contracts. But sitting on the bench collecting dust and cobwebs, forget about it. I really dont see how this connects to your previous point at all. Not even close to the same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I too think Alex Rios will have a bounce back season next year. There's no way in hell I would trade Rios for Soriano. I don't think Kenny Williams would either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 8, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) Statistically Rios played one of the worst Cfs in all of baseball last year. So, you would rather play Soriano in LF than Rios in CF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 07:50 AM) So, you would rather play Soriano in LF than Rios in CF? Yes actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 06:40 AM) I really dont see how this connects to your previous point at all. Not even close to the same thing Which has/had higher Las Vegas odds? Rios, Dunn and Beckham all making the 2012 All-Star team and Peavy in the Top 5 in the AL Cy Young...or Tebow leading the Broncos to numerous come-from-behind victories and the 2nd round of the playoffs? Which one is more implausible? Both would seem very far-fetched, and yet it's been proven possible. Maybe because of the religious overtones that color Tebow, it's hard to have an "objective" discussion without passions being enflamed...but would the odds of Tebow accomplishing what he has already done be exponentially higher than the scenario just described? If you believe that the White Sox will contend and at least two of those things are possible (one of those 3 makes All-Star team or AL Comeback Player, Peavy in the Top 5 of AL Cy Young, throw in Reed for AL Rookie of the Year or Rookie Pitcher of the Year for good measure). Just trying to make an analogy, since very few posters believe we have the looks of a contender (as is), and that's before dealing Thornton and/or Crain and Floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 08:10 AM) Which has/had higher Las Vegas odds? Rios, Dunn and Beckham all making the 2012 All-Star team and Peavy in the Top 5 in the AL Cy Young...or Tebow leading the Broncos to numerous come-from-behind victories and the 2nd round of the playoffs? Which one is more implausible? Both would seem very far-fetched, and yet it's been proven possible. Maybe because of the religious overtones that color Tebow, it's hard to have an "objective" discussion without passions being enflamed...but would the odds of Tebow accomplishing what he has already done be exponentially higher than the scenario just described? If you believe that the White Sox will contend and at least two of those things are possible (one of those 3 makes All-Star team or AL Comeback Player, Peavy in the Top 5 of AL Cy Young, throw in Reed for AL Rookie of the Year or Rookie Pitcher of the Year for good measure). Just trying to make an analogy, since very few posters believe we have the looks of a contender (as is), and that's before dealing Thornton and/or Crain and Floyd. The NFL scenario for sure. Bad QBs get to the playoffs all of the time if they are accompanied by great defenses. Think of guys like Rex Grossman going to the superbowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 09:11 AM) The NFL scenario for sure. Bad QBs get to the playoffs all of the time if they are accompanied by great defenses. Think of guys like Rex Grossman going to the superbowl. With 162 games in a major league season, extremely unlikely events, things like unassisted triple plays or inside the park grand slams, have a finite chance of occurring. But they tend to not be so hugely important as to wind up dominating a season and deciding a champion, because the season is so long that those single events tend to average out. On the other hand, the NFL season is only 16 games, so seemingly incredible occurrences, things that should never, ever, ever happen, like a coach kicking the ball to a healthy Devin Hester or a safety cheating upwards against the run leading to an 80 yard completion, those things can dominate a championship path. Both of these are cited as reasons to love the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 QUOTE (Chet Kincaid @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) I too think Alex Rios will have a bounce back season next year. There's no way in hell I would trade Rios for Soriano. I don't think Kenny Williams would either. Rios would have to overachieve big time to have more than an average season by good centerfielder standards. And we know he isn't going to overachieve, not in his current $$$comfort$$$ zone. So all we can hope for is .260 at best with about 15 home runs max and about 70 ribbies max. If we could somehow dump the guy, I'd take DeAza out there anyday. He'd put up similar numbers (at worst) for 1/75th the pay. Not that I care about lining Jerry's pockets with more money. Did he raise parking again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 05:28 PM) Rios would have to overachieve big time to have more than an average season by good centerfielder standards. And we know he isn't going to overachieve, not in his current $$$comfort$$$ zone. So all we can hope for is .260 at best with about 15 home runs max and about 70 ribbies max. If we could somehow dump the guy, I'd take DeAza out there anyday. He'd put up similar numbers (at worst) for 1/75th the pay. Not that I care about lining Jerry's pockets with more money. Did he raise parking again? No he doesn't. If he hits .260 with 15 HR, he's most likely gonna have a .700+ OPS, which is actually about average for CFers. I also don't think that's an "at best" estimate. You're talking about a guy who has a career line of .270/.320/.430. Not .230/.280/.350. Edited January 10, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I, for one, would like to see Greg participating with Joe Cowley in a tryout to replace Alex Rios held at KU Baseball Field in Lawrence in late March. Just win, Baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 05:28 PM) Rios would have to overachieve big time to have more than an average season by good centerfielder standards. And we know he isn't going to overachieve, not in his current $$$comfort$$$ zone. So all we can hope for is .260 at best with about 15 home runs max and about 70 ribbies max. If we could somehow dump the guy, I'd take DeAza out there anyday. He'd put up similar numbers (at worst) for 1/75th the pay. Not that I care about lining Jerry's pockets with more money. Did he raise parking again? I can't stand your hypocrisy. You constantly espouse how we should treat "our own" better, but that's only for Ozzie and other guys you arbitrarily (read: because they played on the 2005 or 2008 teams) like. When it comes to certain players, JR or KW, you have no problem ripping them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If Rios can put up a 700-725 OPS and play above average defense (2009-10 version, not 11), then it's a huge plus. Whether he will or won't do that, only the Shadow Knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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