max power Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) I think you are overlooking the purpose of this season. It is to find out what we have in our major league ready prospects, to give some of our major leaguers an opportunity to bounce back, and to allow the other recently acquired prospects to grow. The bullpen does not need any veterans in it, nor does the bench for the white sox to have a successful season considering those goals. Edited January 10, 2012 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:11 AM) It does for draft position, which will become highly important with the new CBA rules. Using that line of thoiught, then last place is the goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Of course, that vaunted KC minor league system that's gonna take the majors by storm in 2010. Oh wait, maybe 2011. OK, how about 2012 then? Hosmer & Moustakas aren't gonna win you many games with those pitchers. I would take KC young talent in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:11 AM) If we aren't going to bring people in to compete for this year than trade away some huge pieces like Floyd, Konerko, Alexei etc... I hate half ass jobs. There's no reason to keep AJ or Konerko on this team, if we aren't going to go for it. Did the trade deadline pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:11 AM) If we aren't going to bring people in to compete for this year than trade away some huge pieces like Floyd, Konerko, Alexei etc... I hate half ass jobs. There's no reason to keep AJ or Konerko on this team, if we aren't going to go for it. I agree with that, but the Sox don't. They are worried about selling tickets at the same time, I personally don't have to worry about losing money because the Sox suck. Trading away guys like Konerko after losing MB/Ozzie to the Marlins is too much for the average fan, too many people wouldn't show up. Although many fans only go to games when they are winning, there are plenty who will justify the expense of going because of certain players, even if that team is sucking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (YASNY @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:13 AM) Using that line of thoiught, then last place is the goal. If .500 is probably the best your team can achieve, than yea being in last for a year or two is more beneficial long term for the franchise. The best direction the team could go for sustained good performance is to trade away all possible pieces, lose big this year, tryout as many young players during the season as possible, go all out in the draft with the high draft picks, start spending again in the next year or two. With the new CBA rules, getting stuck in that purgatory that is .500 is more likely than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (MAX @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:12 AM) I think you are overlooking the purpose of this season. It is to find out what we have in our major league ready prospects, to give some of our major leaguers an opportunity to bounce back, and to allow the other recently acquired prospects to grow. The bullpen does not need any veterans in it, not does the bench for the white sox to have a successful season considering those goals. I think this is right on. People keep wanting to put the Sox into one of two camps: a complete crash-down rebuild that takes five years and may never work, or go sign a whole bunch of expensive players and compete in 2012. KW is doing neither - he is retooling for 2013, and I think he's got the right idea, given the parameters he has to work within (payroll, attendance, talent in minors, tradeable vs untradeable major leaguers, contract lengths, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) If .500 is probably the best your team can achieve, than yea being in last for a year or two is more beneficial long term for the franchise. The best direction the team could go for sustained good performance is to trade away all possible pieces, lose big this year, tryout as many young players during the season as possible, go all out in the draft with the high draft picks, start spending again in the next year or two. With the new CBA rules, getting stuck in that purgatory that is .500 is more likely than ever. I agree with everything u said. If the team is not going to go for it, trade away everyone. Edited January 10, 2012 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:19 AM) I think this is right on. People keep wanting to put the Sox into one of two camps: a complete crash-down rebuild that takes five years and may never work, or go sign a whole bunch of expensive players and compete in 2012. KW is doing neither - he is retooling for 2013, and I think he's got the right idea, given the parameters he has to work within (payroll, attendance, talent in minors, tradeable vs untradeable major leaguers, contract lengths, etc.). In a non-video game world, this is about as good as you can get. You won't be able to spawn off Rios, Dunn, or Peavy. You have to keep Konerko for the fans, and keep guys that will be around for the next 3-4 years (Danks, possibly Alexei). Everyone else should be moved for the right package, including considering cutting salary for future seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) Cause I am passionate about the Sox being a lot better than where we stand right now. So your goal is to bring is us from 75 wins to 80 by signing some useless bench players? That's worth getting angry over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:13 AM) I would take KC young talent in a heartbeat. I'm sure KC fans would take a team that doesn't lose 90 games every year. That young talent still hasn't won in the majors, yet we keep hearing about how awesome they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 So your goal is to bring is us from 75 wins to 80 by signing some useless bench players? That's worth getting angry over? Didn't I say either go for it all or trade away everyone. These half ass jobs totally SUCK!! I'd be happy with 75-80 wins with young and upcoming prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) If we aren't going to bring people in to compete for this year than trade away some huge pieces like Floyd, Konerko, Alexei etc... I hate half ass jobs. There's no reason to keep AJ or Konerko on this team, if we aren't going to go for it. First off, I don't see anything half-assed about their approach this season. The only "acquisition" they've made was to retain the services of a young, talented lefty starter at (likely) below-market costs with a back-loaded contract. The rest of the moves were prospect grabs. Second, did Paul Konerko announce he would waive his 5/10 NT rights or something? How about AJ for that matter? Why does everyone keep talking about trading them? We can't, unless they okay it, and even if they do I guarantee they won't accept a trade with Houston or something. That severely limits the pool of trade partners, and we probably wouldn't get much for them. Much less than they're worth here, where fans are attached to those players. It's absolutely ridiculous to desire a bunch of bullpen/bench signings that will take us from a last place team (totally arguable...the Twins and Royals still suck until otherwise proven) to a third place team. Who cares what place we're in if we don't make the playoffs? Plus, it sounds like you want to sign good players who will demand multi-year deals. Multi-year reliever deals are risky, and we should be risk-averse right now. There's no reason to make it rain for 4 Scott Linebrinks and a Mark Teahen. Edited January 10, 2012 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:19 AM) I think this is right on. People keep wanting to put the Sox into one of two camps: a complete crash-down rebuild that takes five years and may never work, or go sign a whole bunch of expensive players and compete in 2012. KW is doing neither - he is retooling for 2013, and I think he's got the right idea, given the parameters he has to work within (payroll, attendance, talent in minors, tradeable vs untradeable major leaguers, contract lengths, etc.). Agreed. We do not need to back up the truck. We have enough talent to build around with youthful talent. Hopefully some of our disappointments will rebound somewhat this year and make the team at least competitve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:20 AM) I agree with everything u said. If the team is not going to go for it, trade away everyone. And this team is in between right now, they are trying to save attendance by keeping a few guys (and some guys you can't get rid of anyways) while trading other pieces for prospects you like and can contribute in the next season or two. So adding salary in terms of bench players and mop up guys doesn't make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm sure KC fans would take a team that doesn't lose 90 games every year. That young talent still hasn't won in the majors, yet we keep hearing about how awesome they are. You can't compare the past prospects with this upcoming group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:23 AM) I'm sure KC fans would take a team that doesn't lose 90 games every year. That young talent still hasn't won in the majors, yet we keep hearing about how awesome they are. I would like to clarify what I think a lot of posters on here that admire the KC system think: Their system is top notch, one of the best ever compiled most likely. They have some major pieces coming up through that system. That said, this does not make them perennial winners in the future. That franchise will have to commit to keeping those players that do pan out, signing FA's to fill holes, and being able to pull the trigger on deals to get players that they weren't able to produce. Without that commitment a farm system is useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 And this team is in between right now, they are trying to save attendance by keeping a few guys (and some guys you can't get rid of anyways) while trading other pieces for prospects you like and can contribute in the next season or two. So adding salary in terms of bench players and mop up guys doesn't make any sense. it's time for JR to eat some salary like Ricketts is doing on the north side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) Didn't I say either go for it all or trade away everyone. These half ass jobs totally SUCK!! I'd be happy with 75-80 wins with young and upcoming prospects. This is the point, the off season doesn't end tomorrow. There are over 6 months left to make trades. It's like people here saying "we could have gotten so much more for Santos omggggg", how the f*** does anyone here know that? Absolutely 0 point in getting angry over hypothetical moves that not a single person outside of the sox org would know about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) You can't compare the past prospects with this upcoming group. Sorry, I forgot they already clinched in a spot in the 2015 World Series vs. the Fighting Theos. I think comparing them to past prospects is fair until they show any major league success, which expect for a few, they haven't. I'll give Rays prospects the benefit of the doubt, not the Royals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:28 AM) it's time for JR to eat some salary like Ricketts is doing on the north side. No team has ever eaten as much salary as it would take to get rid of Rios, or Dunn (who would be a mistake imo). Right now it's just not possible to get rid of them, the organization has forced themselves into a situation where they have to see what they can get out of these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:28 AM) it's time for JR to eat some salary like Ricketts is doing on the north side. He has eaten $15 million dollars. Whose contract could you get rid of on the Sox for $15 million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:29 AM) This is the point, the off season doesn't end tomorrow. There are over 6 months left to make trades. It's like people here saying "we could have gotten so much more for Santos omggggg", how the f*** does anyone here know that? Absolutely 0 point in getting angry over hypothetical moves that not a single person outside of the sox org would know about. I think it's fair to say as a poster that the Sox could have gotten a filler prospect or two, similar to one in the Frasor deal, in addition to Molina, based on precedence. Obviously we won't know the true value of Santos, but we as fans can make logical deductions based on precedence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 This is the point, the off season doesn't end tomorrow. There are over 6 months left to make trades. It's like people here saying "we could have gotten so much more for Santos omggggg", how the f*** does anyone here know that? Absolutely 0 point in getting angry over hypothetical moves that not a single person outside of the sox org would know about. KW has already said several times he isn't going to trade everyone, which IMO is bulls***. Either go for it or trade away anyone that has value. I like the Santos trade. I think Molina will be great for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:33 PM) KW has already said several times he isn't going to trade everyone, which IMO is bulls***. Either go for it or trade away anyone that has value. I like the Santos trade. I think Molina will be great for the Sox. Seriously, though, are you just ignoring no-trade rights? Edited January 10, 2012 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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