jenksycat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) I think it's fair to say as a poster that the Sox could have gotten a filler prospect or two, similar to one in the Frasor deal, in addition to Molina, based on precedence. Obviously we won't know the true value of Santos, but we as fans can make logical deductions based on precedence. Eh, I'll never buy that. Not a single person here knows what goes down so I don't see the point in treating it like they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 He has eaten $15 million dollars. Whose contract could you get rid of on the Sox for $15 million? Ricketts is also willing to eat Soriano contract. To answer your question would try to trade Thornton and AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:36 PM) Ricketts is also willing to eat Soriano contract. To answer your question would try to trade Thornton and AJ I thought you were mad that KW wasn't signing top-notch relievers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:34 AM) Eh, I'll never buy that. Not a single person here knows what goes down so I don't see the point in treating it like they do. There is a ton of truth that fans don't really know the true value of a player, just because every circumstance will be different (market for the player, economy making salary mroe appealing or less, etc). That said, how do you think many GMs view value of players in a trade? They look at precedence in a big way, it's like buying real estate. How much was a similar piece valued, and what is the current market climate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Seriously, though, are you just ignoring no-trade rights? I am sure PK & AJ would gladly accept a trade to a real contender.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:38 PM) There is a ton of truth that fans don't really know the true value of a player, just because every circumstance will be different (market for the player, economy making salary mroe appealing or less, etc). That said, how do you think many GMs view value of players in a trade? They look at precedence in a big way, it's like buying real estate. How much was a similar piece valued, and what is the current market climate. I agree, except that real estate comps are very easy to find, whereas MLB comps are sometimes next to impossible. I can't think of a Santos comp, given his age, history and contract status. I'm with Jenksy on that particular trade...no way to tell. The only thing I feel like KW can be criticized for there is the Red Sox rebuke for not coming to them before pulling the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 09:41 AM) Nick Castellanos, Jacob Turner and Rizzo is a lot better than Molina & Castro. Psst. So are the guys that got traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) If you are happy about the Sox being the worst team in the AL Central ( as we stand right now) that's on you. I am hoping that KW finally brings people into this organzation on both the major league and minor league level. This year isn't about competing. Get that out of your head now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Psst. So are the guys that got traded. I don't think Cashner is better than Santos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:39 PM) I am sure PK & AJ would gladly accept a trade to a real contender.. Yes, so that limits our trade opportunities to about 10 teams already limiting our return. Some of these teams they probably wouldn't go to for geographical reasons. Most contending teams already have 1B filled, and probably have no use for AJ. And neither of them will accept a trade if they're going to be backups. They are faaaar more valuable to our revenue than anything we'd get in return. Like it or not, Sox revenue is a concern, because it's all that separates us from the perennial bottom-dwellers at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) In a non-video game world, this is about as good as you can get. You won't be able to spawn off Rios, Dunn, or Peavy. You have to keep Konerko for the fans, and keep guys that will be around for the next 3-4 years (Danks, possibly Alexei). Everyone else should be moved for the right package, including considering cutting salary for future seasons. And keep in mind you do have to keep a few guys to keep some fans going to the park. We have seen what happens when the white flag goes up on teh south side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 This year isn't about competing. Get that out of your head now. If we aren't competing than trade about 9 players from this current roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) I agree, except that real estate comps are very easy to find, whereas MLB comps are sometimes next to impossible. I can't think of a Santos comp, given his age, history and contract status. I'm with Jenksy on that particular trade...no way to tell. The only thing I feel like KW can be criticized for there is the Red Sox rebuke for not coming to them before pulling the trigger. And yea that's where it differs and why it's harder for fans to say with authority that a team got ripped off (at the time of the trade at least). But there tends to be enough former trades to look at to give an idea of what a team should expect in return, and sometimes having all these unique statuses (young, experienced closer with cheap contract) should be able to bring in more in a trade, just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) You can't compare the past prospects with this upcoming group. Why. I remember the same garbage beings said in 2003, about how no one could catch KC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh my goodness. Obama, just stop right now. I'm going to have to call detective Stabler, Benson and the rest of the SVU in a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, so that limits our trade opportunities to about 10 teams already limiting our return. Some of these teams they probably wouldn't go to for geographical reasons. Most contending teams already have 1B filled, and probably have no use for AJ. And neither of them will accept a trade if they're going to be backups. They are faaaar more valuable to our revenue than anything we'd get in return. Like it or not, Sox revenue is a concern, because it's all that separates us from the perennial bottom-dwellers at this point. The Giants and Brewers would gladly take PK for the right deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) Ricketts is also willing to eat Soriano contract. To answer your question would try to trade Thornton and AJ Really? I must have missed the quote where he said he would eat $56 million. I doubt it. I think Thornton is on the trade block. I don't think there is much of a market for AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:42 AM) I don't think Cashner is better than Santos. Comparing the players the Cubs dealt as a versus the players the Sox have dealt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:43 AM) And keep in mind you do have to keep a few guys to keep some fans going to the park. We have seen what happens when the white flag goes up on teh south side. Yea that's pretty much what I said. The Sox are about winning, I think they have made that statement the past few years with their commitment to the payroll, but they are about making money too. And to do that they needs fans at the ballpark and enough tv viewership, and you need some players to draw these fans in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) I am sure PK & AJ would gladly accept a trade to a real contender.. You really don't seem familiar with the realities of baseball as a business. AJ? He's owed $6M this year. No one wants him for that salary, especially with the concerns of overhead that comes with him. You'd have to pay most of his salary, save maybe $1M... and trade away one of the two or three most popular players on the team, thus some of that million vanishes in diminishing fan support anyway. And then you lose the ability for Flowers to watch AJ and develop. So trading AJ saves you basically no money, gets you no return, and makes some things worse. And he may not even accept it anyway, depending on where you send him. Trading PK? Sure, teams would like PK, but he is a guy whose contract has a little scary to it. The return on a PK trade, with his current contract (which is at-value or slightly better now, but may be above value later), will not net you the type of great prospects you would like. Meanwhile, such a trade would absolutely have an effect on the fanbase, a very negative one, dimishing your monetary savings. You leave a giant hole at 1B because the Sox don't have any decent 1B prospects right now, so that hole will persist for years. And then you do what with the money you save? Sign PK back, which is exactly what you need anyway? That makes zero sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:43 AM) If we aren't competing than trade about 9 players from this current roster That is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) Really? I must have missed the quote where he said he would eat $56 million. I doubt it. I think Thornton is on the trade block. I don't think there is much of a market for AJ. There really wouldn't even be much of a market for Konerko honestly. Who out there needs a $12 million 1B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) Really? I must have missed the quote where he said he would eat $56 million. I doubt it. I think Thornton is on the trade block. I don't think there is much of a market for AJ. I think it was J4L who broke down the market for AJ, but can't remember specifically who did it. All I remember is that every team that may be looking to upgrade at catcher already has an option as good if not better than AJ. He flat out isn't a big enough upgrade for a team to take on salary and give up talent for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:43 AM) If we aren't competing than trade about 9 players from this current roster List the 9 players, and tell me what you think the team would get for them, how much money would have to be sent, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) The Giants and Brewers would gladly take PK for the right deal The right deal of course being the kind of deal people like you would throw a temper tantrum about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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