SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. How many fourth or fifth place teams have we had since 2001? 2007. And that was followed by the 2008 playoff team. Someone needs to take a valium. that's the past. I am talking about the 2012 team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 So apparently you are losing patience because Theo is moves and KW isn't. Even on a rebuilding team, you cannot just trade away everyone with value on the team because this is not a video game, and that is not how you run a franchise. We cannot just field a team with Triple A players this season, we still need to take attendance into consideration, that is why a guy like Paulie has not been involved in trade discussions throughout. Unless you are in an arm race between your buddies or neighbors who are Cub fans, I suggest you be patient and grab popcorn and watch the show, this thing will not be finished over night. Billy Beane has traded for many great prospects this off season. PK was in trade conversations last year at the deadline but AZ didn't want to give up Goldschmidt. I will be patient if the team is rebuilding and not this half assed job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) If Beckham fails again this season. He will be worthless on the trade market. We could have gotten Gonzalez last year for him and not have Dunn on the Sox. By not making that trade cost us BIG TIME The Sox weren't gonna pay Gonzalez what the Red Sox did, so it would have been a one year rental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) The Sox are going to take a huge hit in attendence if we have PK or not.. The way I see it is you take the hit now, bring in many prospects and than spend money on free agency in the next 2 seasons to go along with the prospects. The next 2 years of PK on this team is worthless, if we aren't going for it You have to be realistic here and KYC. The Sox fans are frontrunners and bandwagon fans. If the team isn't winning, it at least has to have some recognizable faces to draw some fans. You might be able to get away with that stuff at Wrigley, but not on the south side. We'd have a million fans at the ballpark next year if we followed your directives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) I already broke down AJ and PK for you. You are not getting any Top 100 names for either. AJ gets you nothing at all, if you can even move him. PK, if you eat a bunch of salary, might get you a couple decent prospects. Crain and Ohman get you nothing because they are basically paid at-value or above. Danks just got signed to a long term deal, at-value or so, so he gets you maybe one decent prospect. Beckham has been a huge disappointment and you would be selling low, getting not much in return, which would be idiotic. Floyd and Thorton are the only two you suggest that make some sense, and for the two combined, you might, maybe, get one Molina-like spect, but probably not even that. So you trade all those guys, you eat half the salary in the group, and you get back one or two 75-125 overall level prospects, and a handful of ones below that. And oh by the way, you no longer have any core to the team to build around whatsoever, and have massive holes to fill this year and in the future, so you end up re-spending the money you saved anyway. Sounds awesome. And Danks has a full no trade for 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:18 AM) How do you know the Sox will be in the postseason in 2 years? There is absolutely no guarantee of that. The propsects could not pan out or get injured then what? Considering no one has ever completely blown up a team and been back in two years, I am calling the guarantee that we would NOT be in the playoffs with in 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 11:20 AM) then we won't be any better off than where we stand today. At least we have a direction.. I can't stand Billy Beane but he had the right approach for his team this year Great we can emulate a team in perpetual rebuilding who can't keep a fan base and needs to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) I guess a lot of fans on this site are happy with a 4th or 5th place finished with a team with a high payroll.. The only way I would ever be happy with a losing record is with a lot of young prospects and building for the future.. This organzation needs a new direction.. I think a lot of fans have a sense of reality here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:21 PM) Billy Beane has traded for many great prospects this off season. PK was in trade conversations last year at the deadline but AZ didn't want to give up Goldschmidt. I will be patient if the team is rebuilding and not this half assed job. What have all of those years of rebuilding gotten Oakland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not reading the whole thread but someone's said "Uh...we're rebuilding and we need a veteran bullpen and backups? Riiiight" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:44 PM) What have all of those years of rebuilding gotten Oakland? Those prospects will fetch Billy Beane a nice haul in 3-4 years when he trades them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:53 PM) Those prospects will fetch Billy Beane a nice haul in 3-4 years when he trades them away. Exactly. If we chase off the majority of our season ticket base, we will become Oakland again. The one thing this team has done over the last 10 years is to considerably narrow the fan gap in Chicago. Trading everyone away pisses that progress away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Exactly. If we chase off the majority of our season ticket base, we will become Oakland again. The one thing this team has done over the last 10 years is to considerably narrow the fan gap in Chicago. Trading everyone away pisses that progress away. You really think so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The whole problem with this off season is Theo is god and as such every move he makes is a win regardless of the actuality of the move. Everyone thinks the prospects he is getting are going to take them to the 2014 world series and every draft will yield at least one all-star. I believe that magic will wear off once they are 5-12 the fans will realize the product is not worth it. Can someone give me some of the great rebuilding projects in the history of baseball? I am still waiting on the Orioles wave of young pitching from a couple of years back. Everyone thinks the cubs cash cow will not stop or even slow down.....ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 02:15 PM) You really think so? The fact that the Sox won a world series and really built up a solid attendance base despite some of the highest ticket prices in baseball, and the fact that the Sox are now consistently a top 10 payroll, pretty much says yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:15 PM) You really think so? Last year would have and this year could. The cubs have a chance of being epically bad if they trade Garza. At some point the fans will want to see some entertainment value from their team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) Can someone give me some of the great rebuilding projects in the history of baseball? I am still waiting on the Orioles wave of young pitching from a couple of years back. The 1997 Marlins. The post-tetrahydrogestrinone Giants. The Braves/Twins worst to first year. The Yankee dynasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Great we can emulate a team in perpetual rebuilding who can't keep a fan base and needs to move. Two different markets.. Plus you said it yourself are fan base is bandwagon jumpers. Sooner or later this team needs to build for the future, for the better of this organzation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 02:31 PM) Two different markets.. Plus you said it yourself are fan base is bandwagon jumpers. Sooner or later this team needs to build for the future, for the better of this organzation. The first thing to understand about the chicago baseball market is that it really is not two different markets unless both teams decide to allow it to be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Last year Rays team did very well after losing Crawford, the whole bullpen and several other key pieces from the season before. That's the organzation I want KW to follow.. They're great at scouting and knowing when to let go of key players, such as Crawford, Soriano, and Pena to name a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) Last year Rays team did very well after losing Crawford, the whole bullpen and several other key pieces from the season before. That's the organzation I want KW to follow.. They're great at scouting and knowing when to let go of key players, such as Crawford, Soriano, and Pena to name a few. So you're prepared for 10+ years of last place finishes in order to stockpile top-3 draft picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 So you're prepared for 10+ years of last place finishes in order to stockpile top-3 draft picks? I'd be patient for about 5 seasons, if that was the direction that Sox wanted to go. I am glad the Sox have brought in some new scouts this off season from the Jays and Twins organzation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) So you're prepared for 10+ years of last place finishes in order to stockpile top-3 draft picks? I think this is point most don't get. In order to really build the farm system to one of the best, you need to be bad foir a long time. You obviously can have a good one with good scouting but to be Rays good you need to be bad for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 01:36 PM) Last year Rays team did very well after losing Crawford, the whole bullpen and several other key pieces from the season before. That's the organzation I want KW to follow.. They're great at scouting and knowing when to let go of key players, such as Crawford, Soriano, and Pena to name a few. LOL, I think every organization would like to scout like the Rays. And it's not that they know when to let go of key players, they simply can't afford them because their market is so s***ty, so the decision is made for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 10, 2012 -> 02:40 PM) I'd be patient for about 5 seasons, if that was the direction that Sox wanted to go. I am glad the Sox have brought in some new scouts this off season from the Jays and Twins organzation. I sure as all hedoublehockeysticks wouldn't be patient for 5 seasons. I'm already debating whether i want to spend the $200 on the MLB package this year, and I won't be making a trip to the Cell this year after having done so the last 2 years. Repeat me not caring for 5+ years and I really don't know whether I'd be able to get back excited for a playoff team. And I have 77,000 posts on a White Sox message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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