Yankees Acquire Pineda for Montero

[thehugeunit]

When I first saw it was Pineda for Montero I was kind of meh to it. When I saw we got Campos too... wow it was funny cause on Thursday I read the scouting on him after seeing him in a top 50 prospect list. "fastball like a 24 year old Verlander.... command like a 36 year old Maddux" My eyes lit up. I checked out his stats and he dominant SS ball, although it's just SS the numbers combined with the scouting report how he's so mature he picks up his players when they make a mistake, gosh it's great to have him. I loved Noesi and Montero though. It's a good deal for both teams, hurts to give up those guys but it's great to get some pitching.

 

You've got to think Cashman isn't done yet.

[chw42]

That's the point. For Felix, NOTHING outside of two A prospects and another B+/- prospect will suffice. Who can come up with that? I like the two B's from the Yankees. But that's not enough for me. I want a f***ing Bryce Harper or Mike Trout back for Felix.

 

Yankees can literally offer their entire farm then.

[Balta1701]

Yankees can literally offer their entire farm then.

If they can get Pineda for a lesser price in talent than Felix, why not take Pineda? He's cheaper financially and under control for longer. Yes he won't give you the same performance as King Felix, but those are 2 big benefits. Trade for Felix and you can't sign Kuroda, for example.

[chw42]

If they can get Pineda for a lesser price in talent than Felix, why not take Pineda? He's cheaper financially and under control for longer. Yes he won't give you the same performance as King Felix, but those are 2 big benefits. Trade for Felix and you can't sign Kuroda, for example.

 

I'm talking about this from Seattle's point of view. IMO, trading Felix makes more sense.

[G&T]

Once they get to the point Pineda is at, hasn't that risk declined substantially? Gotten through a full big league season, survived, etc.?

 

(Then agian, that still might well be a reason why Seattle would be willing to let him go)

 

Verducci Effect? 139 IP in the minors, then jumped to 171 in the majors.

[Balta1701]

Verducci Effect? 139 IP in the minors, then jumped to 171 in the majors.

A jump of 32 innings is just over the 25 inning limit but not necessarily horrible on its own. If Sale pitches as a starter through June he'll blow past that increase level.

[thehugeunit]

Verducci Effect? 139 IP in the minors, then jumped to 171 in the majors.

thats actually on par with the non abuse points. Well 2 innings more. The M's really watched him and his pitch count he never went over 110 and rarely over 100.

[Middle Buffalo]

I take it you don't know much about Montero. The Yankees indeed paid a steep price. He's a consensus top 10 prospect in baseball (top 3-5 if you don't include pitchers). He doesn't have a position. But his bat is real. The Mariners desperately needed some offensive reinforcements. And they got a real good one.

When a guy doesn't have a position, that's not a good thing.

 

And my point isn't so much that the value of Montero for Pineda isn't good. I just think that the Yankees (and 4 or 5 others) have a distinct advantage over other teams because they simply outspend everyone for free agents. For instance, when King Felix comes up for free agency in a few years, the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, etc. will be the destination. The Mariners will likely have no chance to re-sign him. So, if I'm a GM and I'm dealing with the Yankees, and all they're trying to do is fill a few holes on their all-star team, I'm telling them I need MULTIPLE prospects back. It really doesn't cost them anything because they want to win every season. Letting young players grow up in the majors doesn't interest them. The Yankees will let other teams develop players and grab them when they hit free agency.

 

 

[iamshack]

When a guy doesn't have a position, that's not a good thing.

 

And my point isn't so much that the value of Montero for Pineda isn't good. I just think that the Yankees (and 4 or 5 others) have a distinct advantage over other teams because they simply outspend everyone for free agents. For instance, when King Felix comes up for free agency in a few years, the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, etc. will be the destination. The Mariners will likely have no chance to re-sign him. So, if I'm a GM and I'm dealing with the Yankees, and all they're trying to do is fill a few holes on their all-star team, I'm telling them I need MULTIPLE prospects back. It really doesn't cost them anything because they want to win every season. Letting young players grow up in the majors doesn't interest them. The Yankees will let other teams develop players and grab them when they hit free agency.

This is a bit of a double-edged sword, though. Contracts have become so lucrative that if you're handing out several of them a year to FA players, and you get hit with a bad string of injuries or busts, all the sudden you've handicapped your organization for years at a time. In the past, the Yankees and the Red Sox could absorb almost any run of bad luck, but not anymore...now they've got to develop players and make intelligent signings, and not just pick up whomever the flavor of the year is.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Not sure it was brought up anywhere, and it's a rather trivial or perhaps even meaningless point, but Pineda's ERA on the road last year was 4.40. The peripherals were still pretty good all around (and in fact, his HR/9 was actually better on the road than at home, which is somewhat surprising), so like I said trivial or even meaningless.

 

I am interested to see how he does in the AL East. The only good offense in the entire AL West was the Rangers and he fared only so-so against them - a 4.74 ERA in 3 starts.

 

I actually like this trade for the Mariners, and I know I'm one of the few on that, without considering anything else they have in the minors. Montero's raked at every level he's been at (his worst was last year with an .814 OPS at AAA, but he was still extremely young for the league and hit to the tune of an .870 OPS the year prior...oh, and that nice little .996 OPS he had in his cup of coffee last year) and hitters are generally safer bets to make it than pitchers, even ones that did what Pineda did last year. If Montero can play a passable catcher, he becomes a monster, and if you want to save his legs, perhaps you can try Smoak in the outfield.

 

I do like it for both teams. The one drawback to Pineda is that, barring the Yankees starting him in the minors this year, he's only controlled for 5 years and gets expensive a year sooner than Montero.

[Steve9347]

I like your take, Wite. You are much less reactionary than the rest of us. I still feel Pineda will be a freak, but we'll see how this one plays out.

[southsider2k5]

Not sure it was brought up anywhere, and it's a rather trivial or perhaps even meaningless point, but Pineda's ERA on the road last year was 4.40. The peripherals were still pretty good all around (and in fact, his HR/9 was actually better on the road than at home, which is somewhat surprising), so like I said trivial or even meaningless.

 

I am interested to see how he does in the AL East. The only good offense in the entire AL West was the Rangers and he fared only so-so against them - a 4.74 ERA in 3 starts.

 

I actually like this trade for the Mariners, and I know I'm one of the few on that, without considering anything else they have in the minors. Montero's raked at every level he's been at (his worst was last year with an .814 OPS at AAA, but he was still extremely young for the league and hit to the tune of an .870 OPS the year prior...oh, and that nice little .996 OPS he had in his cup of coffee last year) and hitters are generally safer bets to make it than pitchers, even ones that did what Pineda did last year. If Montero can play a passable catcher, he becomes a monster, and if you want to save his legs, perhaps you can try Smoak in the outfield.

 

I do like it for both teams. The one drawback to Pineda is that, barring the Yankees starting him in the minors this year, he's only controlled for 5 years and gets expensive a year sooner than Montero.

 

I am with you honestly. I think the M's did very well.

[southsider2k5]

jonmorosi Jon Morosi

Jesus Montero visa issue and bad weather delaying #Yankees - #Mariners trade.

[Balta1701]

Stark

Here's a question several teams asked this week: "How come we never knew that Michael Pineda was available?" Interesting issue.

 

"I bet I've had a dozen conversations with [the Mariners] this winter," said an official of one club. "Never brought him up. I guess we didn't have what they were looking for."

 

And that, it appears, is exactly what went on here. Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik clearly targeted a very select group of young, controllable, impact bats -- Jesus Montero, Mike Stanton, Logan Morrison, etc.-- and dangled Pineda only to those teams, for those hitters. Eventually, it turned out to be the Yankees who said yes.

 

But what if Zduriencik had made it more widely known that he'd talk about Pineda, the way the A's did with Gio Gonzalez and Trevor Cahill, the way the Padres did with Mat Latos? Would he, or could he, have gotten more than Montero and Hector Noesi?

 

"We were blown away when this deal went down," said one GM. "I can't believe they would trade that kind of player. I'm not sure how you do that and not contact everybody. I'm sure Jack likes the deal he made. But even if you don't match up, you never know what you might be able to get if you open it up to start exploring three-team deals."

 

• After any trade like this, a swap of two young players who appear bound for stardom, people start reading all sorts of ulterior motives into it. So let's get to conspiracy theory No. 1 -- that something is up with Pineda.

 

"I saw him in September, and he was throwing 87-91 [mph]," said one exec. "I'm sorry. You just don't trade [young, controllable] premium top-of-the-rotation starters unless something ain't right. I just find it strange [to] trade a front-line starter for a DH."

 

Now the common wisdom on Pineda is that he just slammed into a wall after hitting his innings limit. And no one else we surveyed was alarmed by his fading velocity down the stretch. But it's something to watch, because the facts back this up. For the record, here are Pineda's four-seam fastball velocities through the season, according to Pitch F/X:

 

April 5 (first start of the year): 94-98

June 1: 94-97

Aug. 9: 95-97

Sept. 21 (last start of the year): 91-93

 

• Now here's conspiracy theory No. 2 -- that there were below-the-surface issues with Montero that caused the Yankees to dangle him in several major deals over the last year and a half.

 

The Yankees obviously insist otherwise. They're deep in catchers. And they just scored the second-most runs in baseball. So their take is simply that they dealt from strength, and the Mariners were doing exactly the same thing.

 

But we've written in Rumblings before that there are teams out there that have been wary of Montero despite his undeniable talents. And what turned them off was their perception that he showed signs of "big league-itis" before he ever reached the big leagues.

 

"I'm just not sure about his makeup," said one scout who covers the Yankees' system. "I don't like that he looked bored, at 21, playing professional baseball in Triple-A. Yeah, he'd had some success. But he acted like he'd won five batting titles in the big leagues. … I will say, though, that I saw signs of growth in the last year. I thought Jorge Posada had an effect on him last year in spring training. So hopefully, he got the message. And hopefully, it was just immaturity."

[southsider2k5]

Boy that idiot Kenny Williams!

[southsider2k5]

jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick

The Pineda-Montero trade is finally official. Those must have been very thorough physicals. #Yankees #Mariners