sunofgold Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Looking at the roster and considering his play in 2011, shouldn't Lillibridge be in the "running" to be an everyday player for us in 2012. Played good defense last year, and showed some unexpected power. Great speed. Could make the argument that our best outfield would consist of Lillibridge (LF or RF), DeAza (CF), and The Tanks (LF or RF). Rios could be our 4th OFer if you have a fair competition in spring training. I think that Lillibridge has played well for us and at least has earned the chance to play for a starting job in spring training. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Open competition for 2b but give Beckham the leg up. We're better off if Gordon can ever turn it around. It's worth chasing that hope and (maybe)dream for the greater reward With Lilli you might be adding a few wins but killing Gordon's value in trades, killing the shrinking chance he'll develop into an all-star Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hell no. Brent Lillibridge with 550-600+ ABs in a season? That's no good. Say what you will about Ozzie - but he did right by Brent last year. 200-250 ABs tops is what a guy with his skill-set warrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, but he should have the option to earn a spot if he substantially outplays Beckham, Rios, or De Aza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 well he's not great, but the whole 500-600 at-bats logic doesn't matter if we're completely devoid of passable talent at 2b at the major league level or nearMLB-ready level. awful to say, but lilli may be the best talent we have for 2b. but that is something you have to determine in spring training and then decide how many wins it's worth to you to stall Beckham's development/value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 07:10 PM) well he's not great, but the whole 500-600 at-bats logic doesn't matter if we're completely devoid of passable talent at 2b at the major league level or nearMLB-ready level. awful to say, but lilli may be the best talent we have for 2b. but that is something you have to determine in spring training and then decide how many wins it's worth to you to stall Beckham's development/value Beckham ought to get the first month at least just to see if he can snap his head into the game, longer if he has a good spring. Same for Rios and De Aza. After that, start playing whoever is earning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 06:10 PM) well he's not great, but the whole 500-600 at-bats logic doesn't matter if we're completely devoid of passable talent at 2b at the major league level or nearMLB-ready level. awful to say, but lilli may be the best talent we have for 2b. but that is something you have to determine in spring training and then decide how many wins it's worth to you to stall Beckham's development/value He's not an everyday talent. Sure, Beckham could implode again and he (Lillibridge) would be the guy by default. That doesn't mean he should play everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) He's not an everyday talent. Sure, Beckham could implode again and he (Lillibridge) would be the guy by default. That doesn't mean he should play everyday. So based on what you're saying, Beckham is unquestionably the everyday talent and Lilli is not? Just to make sure I'm following your logic. To me, it's way more hazy than that. Thanks to GB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (sunofgold @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 05:57 PM) Looking at the roster and considering his play in 2011, shouldn't Lillibridge be in the "running" to be an everyday player for us in 2012. Played good defense last year, and showed some unexpected power. Great speed. Could make the argument that our best outfield would consist of Lillibridge (LF or RF), DeAza (CF), and The Tanks (LF or RF). Rios could be our 4th OFer if you have a fair competition in spring training. I think that Lillibridge has played well for us and at least has earned the chance to play for a starting job in spring training. What do you think? A chance to play, OK. Nothing more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 06:19 PM) So based on what you're saying, Beckham is unquestionably the everyday talent and Lilli is not? Just to make sure I'm following your logic. To me, it's way more hazy than that. Thanks to GB. Yes. This team has no chance at contending. Give Gordon 500 ABs and see what happens. Lillibridge peaked last year. That's as good as it's gonna get for him. I don't want to see him in the lineup everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 06:11 PM) Beckham ought to get the first month at least just to see if he can snap his head into the game, longer if he has a good spring. Same for Rios and De Aza. After that, start playing whoever is earning it. Give Beckham the whole year or at least most of it. Next year should not be about competing, but determing what we have and to start building for 2013 & 2014. This coming season is really Beckham's make-or-break year and I'm not going to let a poor April convince me it's time to give up on him. Not when Lillibridge is next on the depth chart. I still have serious concerns about Lillibridge. I'm fine with him as a backup OF/IF next year, but he's going to have to prove to me that last year wasn't a fluke before I consider him for anything more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lillibridge strikes out a lot, but 13HRs in 186abs is very impressive. I really didn't think about replacing Beckham. I haven't given up on Beckham and Beckham's defense was very good last year. I am thinking though that Lillibridge outplayed Dunn and Rios last year. I say let him compete in spring training for a starting job against Rios mainly. And maybe somewhat against Dunn if you start Lillibridge and bench Dunn when we face lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Lillibridge will get exposed by everyday play. He's fine if you maximize his performance by matching him up with the best possible opposing pitchers for his skill-set. In that sense, there's a big question about both DeAza and Brent...whether either one could stand up for 600+ at-bats in a full season. From his time at UGA, 2009 and half of 2010, Beckham deserves at least 4 months of play this season (simply because of his defensive improvements) to get things turned around offensively...if he doesn't, he's going to be worth about as much as Joe Borchard when he was traded for Matt Thornton. That still leaves you with the likes of Martinez, Escobar and Kuhn in the middle infield. Probably best to leave Brent in the OF instead of moving him around from season to season, like we've already done with Beckham and Dayan. Before 2011, Lillibridge wasn't close to a threat for everyday play in the majors. If he earns it, like he did last season, great. But not counting on it. Benching Rios serves what purpose? We're doubtful to be competitive with him playing OR with him sitting on the bench, so we have to try to extract the most possible ROI when we do try to dump his salary eventually. Sitting on the bench the whole season is going to cost us $30 million instead of maybe $10-12-15 million in future payroll outlays. Dunn and Rios have to begin the year as starters and play close to everyday (you can sit Dunn against LHP until he gets his confidence back, HOPEFULLY)...as much as it will pain Greg and Ozzie, they have to play. Edited January 17, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hell no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lillibridge, Beckham, DeAza Have a spring battle and let the best two play. They are big boys. Whoever finishes 3rd will still get playing time and try to earn the spot. None of them are 10 million dollar players that need to justify salary. I would argue that salary should not matter this year. Add Rios to the competition too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 06:06 PM) Hell no. Brent Lillibridge with 550-600+ ABs in a season? That's no good. Say what you will about Ozzie - but he did right by Brent last year. 200-250 ABs tops is what a guy with his skill-set warrants. BL is a utility guy ONLY.............I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There's a problem in American management whereby people are promoted until they exceed their capabilities, then are stuck in a position at which they do not excel, leading to incompetence at every level. I agree with the people who think we should avoid that problem with Lillibridge and keep him in a spot where he excels: the bench. Additionally, I don't think there should be an open competition with Beckham because Beckham is still significantly younger, offers a much greater potential reward and played GG-caliber defense last season. Unless Lilli shows he can play that level of defense on top of his bat (which has probably peaked) it doesn't make sense to bench Beckham. Particularly not in a year that, by all accounts, is meant for development and the long-term good of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 06:06 PM) Hell no. Brent Lillibridge with 550-600+ ABs in a season? That's no good. Say what you will about Ozzie - but he did right by Brent last year. 200-250 ABs tops is what a guy with his skill-set warrants. This is the correct answer. Lilli is the perfect 4th outfielder, but anything more than that and you may be setting him up to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 16, 2012 -> 10:54 PM) There's a problem in American management whereby people are promoted until they exceed their capabilities, then are stuck in a position at which they do not excel, leading to incompetence at every level. I agree with the people who think we should avoid that problem with Lillibridge and keep him in a spot where he excels: the bench. Additionally, I don't think there should be an open competition with Beckham because Beckham is still significantly younger, offers a much greater potential reward and played GG-caliber defense last season. Unless Lilli shows he can play that level of defense on top of his bat (which has probably peaked) it doesn't make sense to bench Beckham. Particularly not in a year that, by all accounts, is meant for development and the long-term good of the club. "Peter Principle" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 17, 2012 -> 12:58 AM) "Peter Principle" Yeah, that's the one. Applies perfectly here, I think. Just let him be an awesome bench player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) I think he should get a shot at a starting job this year before being dismissed as a bench-only player. We suck anyway, so there is nothing to lose. Edited January 17, 2012 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Beckham has to play 2nd for his defense alone. Lillibridge should get plenty of AB's against lefties in the outfield where he plays well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Everyone should have to earn their playing time, which will be a challenge for several of our players. That said, Lillibridge is almost as good versus LHP as Dunn is bad. Based upon last season, I think you have to give Dunn's at bats against LHP to Brent. I would like to see Viciedo at DH and Lillibridge in the outfield vs. LHP, at least until Dunn proves that he can at least hit RHP. Unfortunately, Dunn has to hit vs. RHP, no matter how badly he performs, due to his contract, and our lack of LH hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 17, 2012 -> 05:56 AM) Everyone should have to earn their playing time, which will be a challenge for several of our players. This is why I want an open competition to let the cream rise to the top. The last several years, it was obvious that several players were getting playing time they did not deserve. There were also players who would earn the playing time and then not be allowed to start more than a couple of days in a row. That has to demoralize a team. I think Ventura, or any new manager should walk in the door with everyone on equal footing. That gives guys like Lillibridge hope and enthusiasm because he knows he has a real opportunity to win the job. It also give guys who had been the anointed starters a jolt of competitive drive to keep their jobs. I think these guys will come in motivated with a fresh attitude because of new leadership and being embarrassed by last year. Let the best man win. Let the loser know he can win the job back and will get playing time. It would only make the team better in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Jan 17, 2012 -> 09:38 AM) This is why I want an open competition to let the cream rise to the top. The last several years, it was obvious that several players were getting playing time they did not deserve. There were also players who would earn the playing time and then not be allowed to start more than a couple of days in a row. That has to demoralize a team. I think Ventura, or any new manager should walk in the door with everyone on equal footing. That gives guys like Lillibridge hope and enthusiasm because he knows he has a real opportunity to win the job. It also give guys who had been the anointed starters a jolt of competitive drive to keep their jobs. I think these guys will come in motivated with a fresh attitude because of new leadership and being embarrassed by last year. Let the best man win. Let the loser know he can win the job back and will get playing time. It would only make the team better in my opinion. The problem with that thinking is that "Having to re-earn your job" can demoralize a veteran. Of course, the only one I can really think of who might have that problem on this roster is AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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