PENN STATE SCANDAL

[LittleHurt05]

This type of stuff just makes me hate college football. The crimes of Sandusky and the criminal negligence of the men around him is atrocious.

 

Second to that, what disturbs me is the fact that this could happen anywhere in college football culture. The blind hero worship of the rampant college football fanbases across the country are the perfect opportunity for these kinds of things to happen.

 

Baylor is proving your point

[greg775]

Baylor is proving your point

I wish college sports presidents weren't puppets and would clean up college sports. A good start would be to take away all athletic scholarships for four years and just see what athletes want to play for what schools.

 

I know ... too late to do something like that. ESPN and the other networks would cry bloody murder; fatcat alums who build the practice gyms and renovate the football stadiums and build the luxury dorms would cry bloody murder. I'd do it like the Ivy League ... no athletic scholarships, none. Let the pros be the pros.

 

As far as scandals go, I would say the Penn State situation was the worst one of all time by far. Those poor victims of the defensive coordinator. Sick and sad. I'm sure he's paying the price in prison.

Edited May 19, 2016 by greg775

[Panerista]

Baylor is proving your point

I honestly wish it weren't true. I wish colleges could get past the athletics money and deal with the behavioral issues.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Deadpool

[RockRaines]

I wish college sports presidents weren't puppets and would clean up college sports. A good start would be to take away all athletic scholarships for four years and just see what athletes want to play for what schools.

 

I know ... too late to do something like that. ESPN and the other networks would cry bloody murder; fatcat alums who build the practice gyms and renovate the football stadiums and build the luxury dorms would cry bloody murder. I'd do it like the Ivy League ... no athletic scholarships, none. Let the pros be the pros.

 

As far as scandals go, I would say the Penn State situation was the worst one of all time by far. Those poor victims of the defensive coordinator. Sick and sad. I'm sure he's paying the price in prison.

What is a college sports president?

[Quin]

What is a college sports president?

 

Think he means athletic directors.

[RockRaines]

I honestly wish it weren't true. I wish colleges could get past the athletics money and deal with the behavioral issues.

Baylors case is a lot like FSU where the problem is actually more in local law enforcement and the legal system. Waco had a culture of covering up and has for a long time. The police have taken it in their own hands to make sure nothing happens to the players. This is not the case in every city where a prominent football team is.

[RockRaines]

Think he means athletic directors.

I guess. Well luckily his next sentence is even more ridiculous.

[Kyyle23]

I guess. Well luckily his next sentence is even more ridiculous.

 

Yea, "college sports presidents" arent puppets. They are businessmen. They make terrible decisions to keep money rolling in

[RockRaines]

Yea, "college sports presidents" arent puppets. They are businessmen. They make terrible decisions to keep money rolling in

Also taking away scholarships for all athletes is laughable.

[southsider2k5]

I honestly wish it weren't true. I wish colleges could get past the athletics money and deal with the behavioral issues.

 

The problem starts with the fan bases. If they didn't completely care only about winning, some of the other stuff might matter. Too many college teams are win blind to everything else... Cheating, recruiting problems, etc, don't matter as long as a team wins. They will defend or explain away their programs activities, and go pitbull after another. If people held their own schools to the highest standards, things would change, as schools would be forced into it. Instead money only follows winning, so guess where the incentive is?

[RockRaines]

The problem starts with the fan bases. If they didn't completely care only about winning, some of the other stuff might matter. Too many college teams are win blind to everything else... Cheating, recruiting problems, etc, don't matter as long as a team wins. They will defend or explain away their programs activities, and go pitbull after another. If people held their own schools to the highest standards, things would change, as schools would be forced into it. Instead money only follows winning, so guess where the incentive is?

In those cases its not the "fan base" in the traditional sense, its the community and mostly law enforcement. At FSU, PSU and Baylor, the legal system and law enforcement have been active participants in either ignoring crimes or covering them up entirely. The community as a whole knows that they live and die by the football team's success and therefor its a culture issue, PSU especially. At FSU, law enforcement literally has been a major factor in players not being charged or investigated for crimes they commit. Baylor has shown us that in Waco they have a cover up culture regarding anything around the football team. Thats a much larger issue than fan bases defending programs or even NCAA violations.

[southsider2k5]

In those cases its not the "fan base" in the traditional sense, its the community and mostly law enforcement. At FSU, PSU and Baylor, the legal system and law enforcement have been active participants in either ignoring crimes or covering them up entirely. The community as a whole knows that they live and die by the football team's success and therefor its a culture issue, PSU especially. At FSU, law enforcement literally has been a major factor in players not being charged or investigated for crimes they commit. Baylor has shown us that in Waco they have a cover up culture regarding anything around the football team. Thats a much larger issue than fan bases defending programs or even NCAA violations.

 

The money to sustain things comes from the fan bases. Without that, the local support system doesn't matter. For example, if alumni and fan pressure had actually come on the Paterno's, this would have been done a long time ago. Instead they are protected, so the community at large protects them. It all traces back to the fan bases desire to win, and the money that flows from that. The community stuff is secondary out of a desire to protect their cash cow.

[RockRaines]

The money to sustain things comes from the fan bases. Without that, the local support system doesn't matter. For example, if alumni and fan pressure had actually come on the Paterno's, this would have been done a long time ago. Instead they are protected, so the community at large protects them. It all traces back to the fan bases desire to win, and the money that flows from that. The community stuff is secondary out of a desire to protect their cash cow.

Sure, but the legal system and law enforcement in theory should be above all of that noise, especially when it comes to the crimes that have been committed at PSU, FSU and Baylor. I understand community folks and schools protecting student athletes as their cash cow but somewhere there has to be a line drawn between that an the law. In larger cities I expect it to be less of a problem than some of the smaller college towns but even that hasnt been 100% true. Its awful, especially when alot of these issues are related to sexual assault.

[Dick Allen]

It's all about money and success. If Penn State was Illinois on the football field back then, all of it would have been exposed.

[Texsox]

Colleges have been under reporting crimes for centuries. Athletes are just one group that has benefited. It took the Clery Act in 1990 to force universities to start reporting. Eastern Michigan has received the highest fine to date for an act that no one talks about. Why is Penn State talked about more? Because athletics are involved. So perhaps claiming that athletes are singled out for being covered up for may not be accurate. It is far easier for universities to cover up crimes not involving athletics because people do not care enough about low profile students. Universities want parents and prospective students to believe their campus is safe. Marketing puts the best face on that as they can. High profile cases are hardest to cover up. Athletics may actually do more to uncover these acts than to cover them.

[RockRaines]

It's all about money and success. If Penn State was Illinois on the football field back then, all of it would have been exposed.

Maybe true. Joe Paterno running an entire town was most of the issue. PSU is also located in a backwards hick town that is pretty isolated from the rest of the world.

 

Colleges have been under reporting crimes for centuries. Athletes are just one group that has benefited. It took the Clery Act in 1990 to force universities to start reporting. Eastern Michigan has received the highest fine to date for an act that no one talks about. Why is Penn State talked about more? Because athletics are involved. So perhaps claiming that athletes are being covered up for may not be accurate. It is far easier for universities to cover up crimes not involving athletics because people do not care enough about low profile students. Universities want parents and prospective students to believe their campus is safe. Marketing puts the best face on that as they can. High profile cases are hardest to cover up. Athletics may actually do more to uncover these acts than to cover them.

Could be a great point. We know things like sexual assault on college campuses is a HUGE problem but it goes largely unreported in major media outlets unless an athlete is involved. However, the chance of it never actually being reported or investigated goes up if it is a high profile athlete. Double edged sword there.

[southsider2k5]

Sure, but the legal system and law enforcement in theory should be above all of that noise, especially when it comes to the crimes that have been committed at PSU, FSU and Baylor. I understand community folks and schools protecting student athletes as their cash cow but somewhere there has to be a line drawn between that an the law. In larger cities I expect it to be less of a problem than some of the smaller college towns but even that hasnt been 100% true. Its awful, especially when alot of these issues are related to sexual assault.

 

I know you keep harping on those three schools, but the problems are WAY bigger than that, which is primarily my point. It is all about protecting your team at all costs.

[RockRaines]

I know you keep harping on those three schools, but the problems are WAY bigger than that, which is primarily my point. It is all about protecting your team at all costs.

Sure, but those are three good examples of the legal system taking part in active coverups, at least that we know of.

[southsider2k5]

Sure, but those are three good examples of the legal system taking part in active coverups, at least that we know of.

 

3. There are WAY more examples of bad ethics being protected by fan bases, while the legal system does their jobs to the best of their ability.

[Texsox]

http://saturdayblitz.com/2016/05/03/nfl-ri...s-shawn-oakman/

 

The NFL Draft came and went without former All-Big 12 defensive end Shawn Oakman hearing his name called for the entirety of the seven round draft. Undrafted free agents quickly signed deals and other players are having tryouts. But Oakman and his 15.5 career sacks were left on the sideline waiting for his phone to ring.

 

Things are changing. And if you look at this in terms of colleges covering up crimes on campus, not just as an athletic problem. the changes are coming rapidly. And sports are driving the changes now after decades of lagging behind. High profile athletes are losing their jobs, suspension, and other disciplinary measures for off field troubles. Yes, there are horrible examples, and this is coming too late and too slow for some, but sports in general are doing more in this area than any other industry.

[RockRaines]

3. There are WAY more examples of bad ethics being protected by fan bases, while the legal system does their jobs to the best of their ability.

I dont understand that statement. What do you mean by protecting "bad ethics"? If they get charged and prosecuted per your second sentence thats a good thing and the fans cannot do anything about it.

[greg775]

The problem starts with the fan bases. If they didn't completely care only about winning, some of the other stuff might matter. Too many college teams are win blind to everything else... Cheating, recruiting problems, etc, don't matter as long as a team wins. They will defend or explain away their programs activities, and go pitbull after another. If people held their own schools to the highest standards, things would change, as schools would be forced into it. Instead money only follows winning, so guess where the incentive is?

 

Very true. And by "fan bases" you must also mean the fat cat fans, the men/women with the money. They are building the luxury dorms and practice facilities and paying the coaches 4-6 million a year. If their team is winning, NOTHING else matters. Kansas has a couple former rowers I believe suing the school and state because of their assault/rape cases being handled in their minds improperly. Best way for a head coach to get fired is to take part in any coverup of crimes, especially crimes against women. That coach better be winning at an amazing clip, cause most football, men's basketball coaches have clauses in their contracts where they can get axed for improper behavior. If that coach isn't WILDLY popular, or very popular, he gawn after one of these crime coverup deals. If he's popular, you can bet they try to pay off the victims, do anything to wipe it under the rug.

Edited May 19, 2016 by greg775

[Texsox]

The biggest donors don't worry too much about the coaches, they spend their influence with the AD and university presidents. The large donors talk to the coaches. The $5,000 donors are the jock sniffers.

[LittleHurt05]

Baylor is proving your point

 

I stand corrected. Art Briles = he gawn

 

Good for Baylor, he built that program up for nothing, it's not easy to just fire him. It really makes you wonder what they uncovered in their investigation.

[Texsox]

I stand corrected. Art Briles = he gawn

 

Good for Baylor, he built that program up for nothing, it's not easy to just fire him. It really makes you wonder what they uncovered in their investigation.

 

I hope they can rebuild and continue winning. Otherwise it sends a message about what you need to do to win in college football that I really would hate to be true.