Official 2011-2012 NFL Thread

[Dick Allen]

I have a theory that Angelo was going to retire. Its pretty much been in the news for a couple of years. I think a lot of these rumors have legs. It was reported Martz was out weeks ago. I think the Bears realize how unpopular Angelo was and asked him to let them fire him instead. They pay off the couple of years left on his contract or another agreed upon sum, and the Bears come away looking proactive, they can say all the right things at the press conference and Jerry is basically retired with some extra gas in his tank. It might be totally crazy, but I think there's a chance its fairly accurate.

 

The problem I see is Ted Phillips a non football guy, making this decision. The McCaskeys are forever indebted to Ted, for he is the one who got them Soldier Field redone and made their net worth leap considerably. He has a lifetime contract with them, no matter what happens. It might not eventually be working for the Bears, but the McCaskeys will make sure Ted is well taken care of the rest of his life.

[MurcieOne]

First of all, you discredit Harbaugh and then go on to credit Schwartz for doing basically the exact same thing as Harbaugh has done at Stanford and now San Francisco.

 

I didnt discredit Harbaugh at all. I just pointed out that Jason diminished Schwartz for not having proved himself over a long period of time, yet did not discredit Harbaugh despite the fact that Harbaugh has no record of sustained success at the nfl level either.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

I have a theory that Angelo was going to retire. Its pretty much been in the news for a couple of years. I think a lot of these rumors have legs. It was reported Martz was out weeks ago. I think the Bears realize how unpopular Angelo was and asked him to let them fire him instead. They pay off the couple of years left on his contract or another agreed upon sum, and the Bears come away looking proactive, they can say all the right things at the press conference and Jerry is basically retired with some extra gas in his tank. It might be totally crazy, but I think there's a chance its fairly accurate.

 

The problem I see is Ted Phillips a non football guy, making this decision. The McCaskeys are forever indebted to Ted, for he is the one who got them Soldier Field redone and made their net worth leap considerably. He has a lifetime contract with them, no matter what happens. It might not eventually be working for the Bears, but the McCaskeys will make sure Ted is well taken care of the rest of his life.

Would the Bears spend all that money to do that? Especially when they could have just allowed Angelo to retire and to be frank, it probably would make the Bears look better since it would not add so many questions around Lovie's tenure since the only reason they were looking for a GM was related to the retirement (which would be a better explanation for staying the status quo with your coach but not with the GM).

[kjshoe04]

I've been wondering for a while now why everyone hates Martz so much. Until Cutler went down this was the best Bears offense of my lifetime.

[Kyyle23]

I've been wondering for a while now why everyone hates Martz so much. Until Cutler went down this was the best Bears offense of my lifetime.

 

Kramer, Conway and Graham were pretty fun to watch

[Chisoxfn]

I've been wondering for a while now why everyone hates Martz so much. Until Cutler went down this was the best Bears offense of my lifetime.

#7 in points. I think the problem was there was a lot of internal issues between Martz and Cutler/Tice. I think Bates is going to be who the Bears end up hiring. It would mean Jay doesn't have to actually learn a new system, albeit, the rest of the offense would.

[Balta1701]

I've been wondering for a while now why everyone hates Martz so much. Until Cutler went down this was the best Bears offense of my lifetime.

Really...the worst of it is the annual "try to kill Cutler" game. He ha his other ups and downs, but that's the thing that really gets you.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've been wondering for a while now why everyone hates Martz so much. Until Cutler went down this was the best Bears offense of my lifetime.

 

What is that really saying? Glenn Close, who makes me want to regurgitate whenever I see her, looks attractive if you put her up against Kathy Bates, Rosie O'donnell and Della Reese.

[Dick Allen]

Would the Bears spend all that money to do that? Especially when they could have just allowed Angelo to retire and to be frank, it probably would make the Bears look better since it would not add so many questions around Lovie's tenure since the only reason they were looking for a GM was related to the retirement (which would be a better explanation for staying the status quo with your coach but not with the GM).

That's just it. Who fires their GM and their QB coach and basically fires their OC and keeps the head coach? Despite popular opinion, Angelo has had the Bears in the Super Bowl and NFC Championship game twice the past 5 years. Any other GM in this town does that, they get a close to lifetime pass. It wasn't his fault his top 2 players had season ending injuries. Not many teams are going to survive that. Obviously he has had trouble with the drafts, obviously his team is thin, but when you have several marquee players, NFL teams tend to be thin. He screwed up this year by not having a competent back up QB. An average back up probably gets the Bears in the playoffs, then maybe Cutler and Forte return, but Angelo then wouldn't be fired. I know there's a new sheriff in town, but GM's usually have to mess up a little more than that to get fired. Its just a theory, but paying out Angelo instead of having him just walk away retired (although they probably would have given him something anyway) is a small price to pay for the publicity firing him and going out and saying everything fans want to hear. If there hadn't been rumblings about Angelo stepping down for a couple of years, I doubt I would feel this way, but I really think this was more staged than an actual firing. Obviously Angelo would have had to play along, and I don't know if his pride would allow it. Again, just a theory. There's something about when a McCaskey says something about money being no object that just makes me skeptical.

[Chisoxfn]

That's just it. Who fires their GM and their QB coach and basically fires their OC and keeps the head coach? Despite popular opinion, Angelo has had the Bears in the Super Bowl and NFC Championship game twice the past 5 years. Any other GM in this town does that, they get a close to lifetime pass. It wasn't his fault his top 2 players had season ending injuries. Not many teams are going to survive that. Obviously he has had trouble with the drafts, obviously his team is thin, but when you have several marquee players, NFL teams tend to be thin. He screwed up this year by not having a competent back up QB. An average back up probably gets the Bears in the playoffs, then maybe Cutler and Forte return, but Angelo then wouldn't be fired. I know there's a new sheriff in town, but GM's usually have to mess up a little more than that to get fired. Its just a theory, but paying out Angelo instead of having him just walk away retired (although they probably would have given him something anyway) is a small price to pay for the publicity firing him and going out and saying everything fans want to hear. If there hadn't been rumblings about Angelo stepping down for a couple of years, I doubt I would feel this way, but I really think this was more staged than an actual firing. Obviously Angelo would have had to play along, and I don't know if his pride would allow it. Again, just a theory. There's something about when a McCaskey says something about money being no object that just makes me skeptical.

I will say this. I just never thought our front office/coach situation was all that bad to be frank. The Bears have made some pretty shrewd signings over the years and as a whole, have drafted relatively well. Angelo has definitely missed on his 1st round picks and had a run of bad drafts, but people forget that sometimes that happens to even the best GM's. Additionally, some of the people he gets called out for being busts ended up being productive football players (Columbo & Benson). The dude had put together two sets of competitive teams (a Super Bowl and an NFC Championship).

 

I will point out that I could see him taking hit for not adding another QB, but in his defense, he also didn't want Martz. All I know is if Cutler/Forte don't go down, we might be talking about Angelo's replacement either way (via retirement) but we'd also probably be talking about how we need to extend Lovie. Lovie had this team in a great position and I have to remind myself about that because I think that is an important fact.

 

It should also be pointed out that Angelo's worst drafts came with either (A) no picks or (B) during a period of time where Lovie had more influence on the organization. His picks of Bazuin and the trade for Adams go down as huge huge negatives for the Bears. Hard to evaluate the Adams trade though, since I have no idea what other teams were offering, since sadly no one got to see whether he'd live up to his potential.

[WHarris1]

Cutler needs the ability to call audibles at the line, something he did not have under Mike Martz

[DrunkBomber]

I've been wondering for a while now why everyone hates Martz so much. Until Cutler went down this was the best Bears offense of my lifetime.

He wasnt as bad as I expected but he just isnt a fit. Hes lucky Cutler didnt get hurt sooner with all the 5-7 foot drops he was calling with an awful offensive line. His situational play calling was suspect (see double screen vs Raiders with Hanie) and he had the Bears trade our athletic receiving TE because he doesnt like to pass to the tight end. Martz was trying to run an offense built for a team with personnel we dont have.

 

As far as Lovie goes, I think he has shown he can be a good coach at times and he certainly has his flaws. Im ok with keeping him for now but I never want to see anything like what the Bears did defensively at the end of the Broncos game ever again. They had Denvers offense sputtering for 3 and a half quarters and then go into that soft defense and gave them every chance to come back and beat us.

[lostfan]

Angelo drafted Briggs, Bennett, and Berrian on the second day. Most of his other picks look like Wolfe, Okwo, Gilbert, Iglesias, Bazuin, Dvoracek, Harrison... You're supposed to be getting at least one or two impact players in every draft after the first or second round.

 

This is why Bears fans think the Greg Olsen trade was lopsided, they think a third is nothing because they're used to seeing Angelo f*** it up. Competent scouting gets you guys like Briggs much more often. I like to ask, would you trade Olsen for Bennett? For Briggs?

[lostfan]

If Eric DeCosta says yes, the job is his.

[iamshack]

Angelo drafted Briggs, Bennett, and Berrian on the second day. Most of his other picks look like Wolfe, Okwo, Gilbert, Iglesias, Bazuin, Dvoracek, Harrison... You're supposed to be getting at least one or two impact players in every draft after the first or second round.

 

This is why Bears fans think the Greg Olsen trade was lopsided, they think a third is nothing because they're used to seeing Angelo f*** it up. Competent scouting gets you guys like Briggs much more often. I like to ask, would you trade Olsen for Bennett? For Briggs?

I've got no problem with the value of the Olsen return. In fact, there is little evidence that our offense suffered at all this season without him.

 

But you can't take a guy that was a major find in the 3rd round like Briggs, and ask, would you trade Olsen for Briggs?

[iamshack]

If Eric DeCosta says yes, the job is his.

Have we interviewed him already?

[Balta1701]

Have we interviewed him already?

No, and the Ravens can delay the process as long as they're in the playoffs.

[southsider2k5]

Apparently Jay Cutler made a trip up to Halas Hall to tell Lovie and the team to fire Martz.

[Balta1701]

Apparently Jay Cutler made a trip up to Halas Hall to tell Lovie and the team to fire Martz.

Lovie denied that yesterday FWIW, who's reporting that?

[Kyyle23]

Apparently Jay Cutler made a trip up to Halas Hall to tell Lovie and the team to fire Martz.

 

So obviously Jay doesnt mind a new OC and learning a new offense

[southsider2k5]

Lovie denied that yesterday FWIW, who's reporting that?

 

The Trib

[Balta1701]

The Trib

Link?

[southsider2k5]

Link?

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,5880222.story

 

It's well known Jay Cutler had to be cajoled into the idea of working with Martz in the first place. So it's not surprising the quarterback went to Halas Hall on Tuesday and let Smith know he was in favor of moving on without Martz before the coaches had met.

[Balta1701]

Ok, well here's Lovie's denial, also from the Trib.

[southsider2k5]

Ok, well here's Lovie's denial, also from the Trib.

 

Of course Lovie is going to say that. He is protecting Cutler from seeming like he is a crybaby trying to get his way.

 

But when you have Cutler and the coaching staff at Halas Hall, and Cutler leaves after both fired OC Martz and fired QB coach Day, which one makes sense? Of course he is part of the process. If he wanted Martz back, he'd be back.