Official 2011-2012 NFL Thread

[GoodAsGould]

Drafting those TE's and keeping a solid O-Line in front of Brady despite some turnover has been 2 clearly important steps.

 

I don't think either TE is specifically that great though, I think a lot of it has to do with Brady just working with whats given it to him. Whether its an old man Moss just running straight down the field or a Welker who really isn't anything that much better than Bennett.

[LittleHurt05]

I don't think either TE is specifically that great though, I think a lot of it has to do with Brady just working with whats given it to him. Whether its an old man Moss just running straight down the field or a Welker who really isn't anything that much better than Bennett.

 

Wes Welker is no better than Earl Bennett??? Interesting...

[GoodAsGould]

Wes Welker is no better than Earl Bennett??? Interesting...

 

Look at him before NE, he might be better than Bennett but the gap isn't that much of a difference. Brady makes players around him better similar to Brees/Manning.

[Kyyle23]

Look at him before NE, he might be better than Bennett but the gap isn't that much of a difference. Brady makes players around him better similar to Brees/Manning.

 

I love Bennett, but it is really hard to say that the gap isnt much of a difference. This is from Welkers wiki(obviously debatable but it is there):

 

Only one player in NFL history, Gale Sayers, had more all-purpose yards in his first three NFL seasons than Welker did with the Dolphins

 

Then he goes to the Pats and has continuous 100 reception seasons. I dont care who is throwing to him, 100 catches is what it is. He has always been known as a great route runner and he has pretty good speed. Bennett has a long way to go to be put on the same level as Welker IMO

[DrunkBomber]

Welker is a lot better then Bennett. I agree he wouldnt be nearly as effective on almost any other roster, sans GB or NO, but that doesnt take away from all the things he does so well. He has essentially been New Englands running game. Gronkowski seems to be the real deal. I think if you put him on any team he would be good if used correctly but thats also a crapshoot. Look at Vernon Davis, hes had undeniable talent since he came in the league and until this season SF never really utilized his strengths.

 

I will say I have been very impressed with what Eddleman has been able to give to New England. Its pretty impressive to bring in a college qb that can be an effective wr to begin with, but when he can also be a good return man AND be plugged into your secondary I think thats pretty special.

Edited January 31, 2012 by DrunkBomber

[SOXOBAMA]

Rob Lowe might have been right about Manning retiring.. I can't see Peyton playing if he isn't 100%

 

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedailydol...-stock-skyward/

Edited January 31, 2012 by SOXOBAMA

[SOXOBAMA]

Welker is a lot better then Bennett. I agree he wouldnt be nearly as effective on almost any other roster, sans GB or NO, but that doesnt take away from all the things he does so well. He has essentially been New Englands running game. Gronkowski seems to be the real deal. I think if you put him on any team he would be good if used correctly but thats also a crapshoot. Look at Vernon Davis, hes had undeniable talent since he came in the league and until this season SF never really utilized his strengths.

 

I will say I have been very impressed with what Eddleman has been able to give to New England. Its pretty impressive to bring in a college qb that can be an effective wr to begin with, but when he can also be a good return man AND be plugged into your secondary I think thats pretty special.

 

Speaking of Vernon Davis, the 49ers are talking about drafting Dwayne Allen in the 1st Rd to match NE of having 2 solid TE's and grabbing a WR in the 2nd rd such as McNutt.

[Steve9347]

Look at him before NE, he might be better than Bennett but the gap isn't that much of a difference.

[GoodAsGould]

 

Yeah because everyone that disagrees with your opinion is an idiot, your avatar is a reminder of that.

[Steve9347]

Yeah because everyone that disagrees with your opinion is an idiot, your avatar is a reminder of that.

I never said that. I never used the word 'idiot'.

 

That word, however, could definitely be reserved for someone who says Wes Welker isn't much better than Earl Bennett.

[LittleHurt05]

Look at him before NE, he might be better than Bennett but the gap isn't that much of a difference. Brady makes players around him better similar to Brees/Manning.

 

In 2007 with Brady, Welker caught 112 passes for 1175 yards. In 2008, Brady was knocked out for the year in game 1. Welker still managed to catch 111 passes for 1165 yards with Matt Cassel as his QB.

 

Is Welker helped by having such a good QB? Of course. But to compare him to Earl Bennett skill-wise is a bit ridiculous IMO. Just the eye test alone says different.

[GoodAsGould]

I never said that. I never used the word 'idiot'.

 

That word, however, could definitely be reserved for someone who says Wes Welker isn't much better than Earl Bennett.

 

You implied it with the clip and my point is Welker on any other team wouldn't put up nearly as good stats and his 3rd and 4th season in the NFL before the Patriots showed that. Hell Branch went from Superbowl MVP to useless on the Seahawks and Moss went from useless to 26 TD's or whatever the number back to being useless once off the Pats. Tom Brady makes players vastly better than they would on vast majority of other teams, Moss obviously was a superior talent at one point and part of it with him was motivation.

 

The same happened to WR's from the Colts, Brandon Stokley went from a garbage WR to a 1000 yard WR with 10 TD's....

[Jenksismyhero]

Honestly the Patriots way hasn't been very effective the past few seasons.... their defense is below avg. the only good player is a DT taken in the same draft as Tommie Harris and the offense rolls with Tom Brady who probably could dominate with any group of weapons similar to Manning/Brees.

 

Why? Because they haven't won the Superbowl? They're 4 years removed from a 19-0 season but for 1 minute of play. In 2008 they lost Brady for a year but still managed to go 11-5. In 2009 they lost Welker the game before the playoffs started. In 2010 they went 14-2 and had the best record in the league, ultimately losing to the Dirty Sanchez. In 2011 they're back in the Superbowl. If that's "not very effective" I dunno what would be.

 

Fact is the Patriots, Packers and Steelers all have a system that works regardless of the players. Some years it's easier, some years it's tougher, but year in year out those guys get good players and have a winning culture. Yes, there's a lot of props that go to Belichick, but it's still the culture. If the Bears could in some way copy that, why not be all for it?

Edited January 31, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[GoodAsGould]

Why? Because they haven't won the Superbowl? They're 4 years removed from a 19-0 season but for 1 minute of play. In 2008 they lost Brady for a year but still managed to go 11-5. In 2009 they lost Welker the game before the playoffs started. In 2010 they went 14-2 and had the best record in the league, ultimately losing to the Dirty Sanchez. In 2011 they're back in the Superbowl. If that's "not very effective" I dunno what would be.

 

Fact is the Patriots, Packers and Steelers all have a system that works regardless of the players. Some years it's easier, some years it's tougher, but year in year out those guys get good players and have a winning culture. Yes, there's a lot of props that go to Belichick, but it's still the culture. If the Bears could in some way copy that, why not be all for it?

 

Their record has been good I'm saying drafting/fa wise the past few seasons its been pretty terrible.

[LittleHurt05]

You implied it with the clip and my point is Welker on any other team wouldn't put up nearly as good stats and his 3rd and 4th season in the NFL before the Patriots showed that. Hell Branch went from Superbowl MVP to useless on the Seahawks and Moss went from useless to 26 TD's or whatever the number back to being useless once off the Pats. Tom Brady makes players vastly better than they would on vast majority of other teams, Moss obviously was a superior talent at one point and part of it with him was motivation.

 

The same happened to WR's from the Colts, Brandon Stokley went from a garbage WR to a 1000 yard WR with 10 TD's....

 

Look at Deion Branch's numbers outside of the one Super Bowl. He never put up gaudy numbers in New England, so the dip in his numbers isn't that significant.

 

Randy Moss was useless while still on the Pats, that's why he was traded. Plus he came from Oakland, where all players go to die. (sorry sqwert)

 

Brandon Stokely had one great year as a slot receiver, how does that compare to Welker's 5 straight solid seasons, including one with Cassel as QB?

 

I won't disagree that a good QB can make an average WR look better, but that doesn't mean all WRs with star QBs are average.

[2nd_city_saint787]

http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1_17-32.asp

 

would love to see this draft for the bears.

 

Based on this draft I'd go with Alshon over Dwight Jones and in the 6th I'd go with Russell Wilson over the RB they had the bears taking, If the Bears wanna go with a RB in the 6th I'd rather have Herron.

 

I'd go with

 

1 RD Decastro

2 RD Jeffery WR

3 RD Cam Johnson DE

3 RD Orson Charles TE

4 RD Nate Potter OT

5 RD Cliff Harris CB

6 RD Russel Wilson QB

 

Based on this draft

Edited January 31, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787

[HuskyCaucasian]

The more I think about it, the best way to get bang for you buck this season is sign a WR and draft a lineman. I dotn think you can get good enough value at lineman in the free agent market.

[gatnom]

I'd like to see the Bears fill their holes on offense in free agency and then draft heavy on defense. There's not going to be a tackle much better than the ones we have by the time we draft, and we don't really have the luxury of developing a 1st round wide receiver. Plus, I'd like to take advantage of the 1-2 years that our defense might still have being good while attempting to add some youth to that side of the ball.

 

 

[DrunkBomber]

http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1_17-32.asp

 

would love to see this draft for the bears.

 

Based on this draft I'd go with Alshon over Dwight Jones and in the 6th I'd go with Russell Wilson over the RB they had the bears taking, If the Bears wanna go with a RB in the 6th I'd rather have Herron.

 

I'd go with

 

1 RD Decastro

2 RD Jeffery WR

3 RD Cam Johnson DE

3 RD Orson Charles TE

4 RD Nate Potter OT

5 RD Cliff Harris CB

6 RD Russel Wilson QB

 

Based on this draft

It never hurts to upgrade your offensive line but if the Bears are gonna address OL in the first round it simply cannot be anything except for a LT. Before we got blasted with injuries Chris Williams and Lance Louis actually looked like a solid pair of guards. We also have Edwin Williams and Garza and Spencer can also play solid enough. At OT however all we have is the hope Carimi can become an impact and then garbage. I know Tice likes to talk up Webb but it might just be because he doesnt want to single any individuals out.

 

WR and LT absolutely have to be addressed this offseason. If theyre gonna use our first rounder to fill one of those needs they better absolutely nail the pick. I just dont see how anyone can feel good about us drafting a guard in the first when its basically the only position on offense we any semblance of depth at.

[Balta1701]

So, I need help.

 

It seems like the media everywhere are in agreement that Peyton Manning is going to wind up released by March 8th. Maybe as soon as next week.

 

I can't figure this out. If he's saying he's healthy enough to play and expects to be back, why wouldn't he be tradeable? Is it impossible to do trades until after that date? I know the Colts might not get 7 first rounders for him if they're under the gun, but I can't believe he wouldn't fetch a Carson Palmer level deal, with maybe a contingent draft pick or two extra, before that date, if he was allowed to be traded.

[iamshack]

So, I need help.

 

It seems like the media everywhere are in agreement that Peyton Manning is going to wind up released by March 8th. Maybe as soon as next week.

 

I can't figure this out. If he's saying he's healthy enough to play and expects to be back, why wouldn't he be tradeable? Is it impossible to do trades until after that date? I know the Colts might not get 7 first rounders for him if they're under the gun, but I can't believe he wouldn't fetch a Carson Palmer level deal, with maybe a contingent draft pick or two extra, before that date, if he was allowed to be traded.

All I can say is this sort of reminds me of when a very highly paid baseball player goes on waivers, and no one claims him. While Peyton Manning has indisputably been one of the best quarterbacks ever, is he going to be the same player ever again? Is he going to be worth $23 million/year? Is a first round draft pick worth whatever that roster bonus is going to cost the Colts?

 

I just don't think he's going to be worth much more than a first round pick or a first and a third with the amount of money he is slated to make, and we have been debating this for a month or two now.

Edited February 1, 2012 by iamshack

[Balta1701]

All I can say is this sort of reminds me of when a very highly paid baseball player goes on waivers, and no one claims him. While Peyton Manning has indisputably been one of the best quarterbacks ever, is he going to be the same player ever again? Is he going to be worth $23 million/year? Is a first round draft pick worth whatever that roster bonus is going to cost the Colts?

 

I just don't think he's going to be worth much more than a first round pick or a first and a third with the amount of money he is slated to make, and we have been debating this for a month or two now.

Fine, if he's worth a first and a conditional 3rd, that's a helluva lot more value than "getting nothing for releasing him". If you've got a contending team and that's all it takes to get Peyton Manning, even though it hurts your cap space, I think it's crazy to expect no one to give that up. If I was the Jets, I'd give that up without a second thought.

 

Which means, expecting him to be released, like everyone seems to be doing, is just insane to me.

[iamshack]

Fine, if he's worth a first and a conditional 3rd, that's a helluva lot more value than "getting nothing for releasing him". If you've got a contending team and that's all it takes to get Peyton Manning, even though it hurts your cap space, I think it's crazy to expect no one to give that up. If I was the Jets, I'd give that up without a second thought.

 

Which means, expecting him to be released, like everyone seems to be doing, is just insane to me.

But is a first round pick and a conditional 3rd round pick worth $28 million?

[Balta1701]

But is a first round pick and a conditional 3rd round pick worth $28 million?

If I had $40 million in cap space, I'd absolutely risk that. I'd probably try my darndest to sit down with Manning and renegotiate part of that deal, which he might well do because he'd be aware that having his whole bonus hit the cap that year would hurt any chance he had of having a winning team around him. But if I'm again, the Jets, and I had to cut the Sanchize and give up a first and a conditional pick or something like that to put Manning on my roster, it happens.

[LittleHurt05]

So, I need help.

 

It seems like the media everywhere are in agreement that Peyton Manning is going to wind up released by March 8th. Maybe as soon as next week.

 

I can't figure this out. If he's saying he's healthy enough to play and expects to be back, why wouldn't he be tradeable? Is it impossible to do trades until after that date? I know the Colts might not get 7 first rounders for him if they're under the gun, but I can't believe he wouldn't fetch a Carson Palmer level deal, with maybe a contingent draft pick or two extra, before that date, if he was allowed to be traded.

 

Just cause he says he's healthy enough doesn't mean he is. Do you wanna risk $28 million and 1st round picks on a guy who may never play for you. He's not gonna tell ESPN how hurt he is, but I don't think all those "sources" are just making it up.