Peavy ready for bounce back season

[Milkman delivers]

And it's more of a "retooling" year than rebuilding. You don't expect to compete during either.

[caulfield12]

Basically, KW has a free pass for at least this year.

 

That could all change if Ventura's completely in over his head and the team starts off 10+ games under .500 in the early months.

 

Then the storyline becomes the fate of Konerko, AJ, Floyd, Crain/Thornton and playing as many younger players as possible to see what we have for 2013, especially at the catching position with Flowers and/or a possible acquisition there. Anything would be better than last year. Maybe the media attention won't be as high with Ozzie's theatrics gone, but in the worst case scenario, we get to see another 25-30% roster turnover and long looks at Molina, Castro, Axelrod and Petricka, along with 3-5 new bullpen arms auditioning.

 

It then starts to look like 2007 (minus the "breakout" year of Josh Fields, unless you count Viciedo as a rookie....and the blahness of Andy Gonzalez/Jerry Owens/Ehren Wasserman), and the clock's REALLY ticking on KW, giving him one more year of cover, probably.

Edited February 11, 2012 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Basically, KW has a free pass for at least this year.

 

That could all change if Ventura's completely in over his head and the team starts off 10+ games under .500 in the early months.

 

Then the storyline becomes the fate of Konerko, AJ, Floyd, Crain/Thornton and playing as many younger players as possible to see what we have for 2013, especially at the catching position with Flowers and/or a possible acquisition there. Anything would be better than last year. Maybe the media attention won't be as high with Ozzie's theatrics gone, but in the worst case scenario, we get to see another 25-30% roster turnover and long looks at Molina, Castro, Axelrod and Petricka, along with 3-5 new bullpen arms auditioning.

 

It then starts to look like 2007 (minus the "breakout" year of Josh Fields, unless you count Viciedo as a rookie....and the blahness of Andy Gonzalez/Jerry Owens/Ehren Wasserman), and the clock's REALLY ticking on KW, giving him one more year of cover, probably.

 

Good post.

I would like to see one of the great fans on here write a nice essay on the makeup of our team and a.) are we rebuilding? b.) are we built to be a contender? c.) what the hell is the front office vision right now: is it just treading water til we get rid of Peavy/Rios/Dunn contracts or is this team trying to win.

You guys disagree with my take on our team still being veteran laden so I'd love to read some of your takes on what the bleep KW is planning for this year and next.

[caulfield12]

I've been know to write essays before, but no need.

 

1) See if Beckham, Morel, Viciedo and DeAza are everyday players....they have to be for us to succeed going forward, at least 3/4.

 

2) Continue exploring trade options for the likes of Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, AJ, Crain and Ohman. If the team totally tanks, you have to give Flowers 3-4 months to see what he can do as the everyday catcher. If he can't do it, you need to replace him from outside the organization via trade or the draft.

 

3) Play Peavy/Dunn/Rios as much as possible and see what options are out there for salary dumps, particularly with Rios and Peavy. Dunn, if he rebounds, there's a higher likelihood we keep him.

 

4) Give extended looks to Lillibridge, Escobar, Ozzie Martinez and Tyler Kuhn. Determine if Brent is a Joe McEwing/Jose Oquendo "jack of all trades" type, if you want to move him back and forth from the OF to IF or if he should stick at one position, possibly replacing Beckham or DeAza (you can't bench Rios or Dunn in a year like this, Greg). McPherson and Dan Johnson could figure in as well, but they're basically retreads and roster filler until we can replace them with better talent from within.

 

5) Decide once and for all if Alexei Ramirez is a franchise cornerstone or valuable trade chip.

 

6) Shut down Chris Sale when it becomes necessary and audition Molina, Castro, Santiago, Petricka, Axelrod, Rienzo, etc. Anyone who emerges from our High A through AA teams at that position.

 

7) We have 10-15 NRI's and minor league bullpen prospects in AA/AAA that all need to be looked at carefully. I won't even bother to take the time to name all of them. Pitch well in 2012 and you'll get your shot with the big league club, just like Ehren Wasserman did in 2007.

 

 

[greg775]

I've been know to write essays before, but no need.

 

1) See if Beckham, Morel, Viciedo and DeAza are everyday players....they have to be for us to succeed going forward, at least 3/4.

 

2) Continue exploring trade options for the likes of Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, AJ, Crain and Ohman. If the team totally tanks, you have to give Flowers 3-4 months to see what he can do as the everyday catcher. If he can't do it, you need to replace him from outside the organization via trade or the draft.

 

3) Play Peavy/Dunn/Rios as much as possible and see what options are out there for salary dumps, particularly with Rios and Peavy. Dunn, if he rebounds, there's a higher likelihood we keep him.

 

4) Give extended looks to Lillibridge, Escobar, Ozzie Martinez and Tyler Kuhn. Determine if Brent is a Joe McEwing/Jose Oquendo "jack of all trades" type, if you want to move him back and forth from the OF to IF or if he should stick at one position, possibly replacing Beckham or DeAza (you can't bench Rios or Dunn in a year like this, Greg). McPherson and Dan Johnson could figure in as well, but they're basically retreads and roster filler until we can replace them with better talent from within.

 

5) Decide once and for all if Alexei Ramirez is a franchise cornerstone or valuable trade chip.

 

6) Shut down Chris Sale when it becomes necessary and audition Molina, Castro, Santiago, Petricka, Axelrod, Rienzo, etc. Anyone who emerges from our High A through AA teams at that position.

 

7) We have 10-15 NRI's and minor league bullpen prospects in AA/AAA that all need to be looked at carefully. I won't even bother to take the time to name all of them. Pitch well in 2012 and you'll get your shot with the big league club, just like Ehren Wasserman did in 2007.

 

Nice post. I would think Soxtalk will be ablaze this season regarding your No. 6. People will be wanting to shut him down for sure when he hits a certain inning total. I mean if the Sox are turning him into a starter, when does his season end? What if for some reason the Sox are in the race?? Do the Sox still have to eventually shut down a guy completely who may be one of their top 3 starters before all is said and done this season??

 

[JohnCangelosi]

Nice post. I would think Soxtalk will be ablaze this season regarding your No. 6. People will be wanting to shut him down for sure when he hits a certain inning total. I mean if the Sox are turning him into a starter, when does his season end? What if for some reason the Sox are in the race?? Do the Sox still have to eventually shut down a guy completely who may be one of their top 3 starters before all is said and done this season??

I noticed point # 6 as well. If we plan on shutting down Sale in September, we're better advised to just limit his innings or skip a start here and there in the early part of the season in the 5% chance we're actually playing for anything meaningful in September.

[caulfield12]

They would be able to skip Sale (if they so choose) on April 30th, May 10th and May 30th.

 

Not sure they need to rest him twice in the span of 10-11 days, but one of those might be a good opening earlier in the season to save him for potential important August/September innings later.

[Andrew]

I've been know to write essays before, but no need.

 

1) See if Beckham, Morel, Viciedo and DeAza are everyday players....they have to be for us to succeed going forward, at least 3/4.

 

2) Continue exploring trade options for the likes of Floyd, Konerko, Thornton, AJ, Crain and Ohman. If the team totally tanks, you have to give Flowers 3-4 months to see what he can do as the everyday catcher. If he can't do it, you need to replace him from outside the organization via trade or the draft.

 

3) Play Peavy/Dunn/Rios as much as possible and see what options are out there for salary dumps, particularly with Rios and Peavy. Dunn, if he rebounds, there's a higher likelihood we keep him.

 

4) Give extended looks to Lillibridge, Escobar, Ozzie Martinez and Tyler Kuhn. Determine if Brent is a Joe McEwing/Jose Oquendo "jack of all trades" type, if you want to move him back and forth from the OF to IF or if he should stick at one position, possibly replacing Beckham or DeAza (you can't bench Rios or Dunn in a year like this, Greg). McPherson and Dan Johnson could figure in as well, but they're basically retreads and roster filler until we can replace them with better talent from within.

 

5) Decide once and for all if Alexei Ramirez is a franchise cornerstone or valuable trade chip.

 

6) Shut down Chris Sale when it becomes necessary and audition Molina, Castro, Santiago, Petricka, Axelrod, Rienzo, etc. Anyone who emerges from our High A through AA teams at that position.

 

7) We have 10-15 NRI's and minor league bullpen prospects in AA/AAA that all need to be looked at carefully. I won't even bother to take the time to name all of them. Pitch well in 2012 and you'll get your shot with the big league club, just like Ehren Wasserman did in 2007.

 

1.)- Totally Agree here.

2.)- Ok...good.

3.) - A qualification here - you do this for 1/2 season. If they're good (or one is decent,other not, maybe both average etc.) do a deal and move them BOTH if you can. NEITHER is a fit for this team so get rid of them (or either of them) when the perceived value presents itself. I mean...like the MINUTE either/both looks any good. F***ing garbage, both of them.

4.) I don't know what you mean here. "Extended looks?" They have #s or not. Every single one of these guys you mention are non-starters/bench. Who gives a s***?

5.)- I have absolutely NO IDEA what you mean here. I sort of 1/2 quipped about a post somewhere else were it was projected Dunn will be the #2 producer on this team and I remarked he'd have to surpass Alexei.... It was obviously kind of silly but not really. Alexei is easily the most valuable player on this team. Let me know if you want to argue that.

6.) - No - Let Chris run. All the way. As FAR as he can go. Nobody is going to fall for that McCarthy s*** again.

7.) - Right, well.... we'll see, I guess.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Andrew

[Milkman delivers]

Nice post. I would think Soxtalk will be ablaze this season regarding your No. 6. People will be wanting to shut him down for sure when he hits a certain inning total. I mean if the Sox are turning him into a starter, when does his season end? What if for some reason the Sox are in the race?? Do the Sox still have to eventually shut down a guy completely who may be one of their top 3 starters before all is said and done this season??

 

Do you seriously not understand anything about baseball? Any pitcher's injury risk skyrockets if he goes up too many innings in one season. Considering that Sale was a reliever for the entirety of the 2011 season, his innings have to be monitored closely.

[YASNY]

I just don't understand how this is a rebuilding year.

 

Our roster is full of veterans.

 

ss-veteran. 1b-veteran. c-veteran. cf-veteran. dh-veteran. so five of nine position players veterans to go with Tank, DeAza, Gordon and Morel.

 

p-Floyd, Danks, Peavy (veterans) with youngster Sale and journeyman type pitcher (Humber, Zach) for No. 5 starter with a veteran bullpen aside from the young closer (Reed). Crain, Thornton and the others are veterans.

 

How is this rebuilding?

 

The young guys who will be playing (Morel, DeAza, Tank, Beckham) of that group there are two superstar prospects. If those 2 develop into superstars I guess we are sort of 'rebuilding' around them and Sale/Reed, if indeed they are also special superstar talents. I don't see how KW would get a free pass though with a 'rebuilding' tag. Too many vets to not be a contender.

If this team doesn't contend, it will be on KW fully since Oz is long gone.

 

6 young players out of 25 ... and the roster is not set yet. There may be more. That's almost 25% of the big league team. How is this not a rebuild or at least a retool?

[Dick Allen]

If the Sox spend all of their money available on player payroll aren't they technically all in every season?

[elrockinMT]

If the Sox spend all of their money available on player payroll aren't they technically all in every season?

 

 

I would hope out motto doesn't become "We are in it to lose it"

[LittleHurt05]

If the Sox spend all of their money available on player payroll aren't they technically all in every season?

 

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?

[Marty34]

Basically, KW has a free pass for at least this year.

 

That could all change if Ventura's completely in over his head and the team starts off 10+ games under .500 in the early months.

 

I think Ventura gets the free pass, KW is on the hot seat. This is the same team that was supposed to win the division last year. I think Sale will show top-of-the-rotation ability and will be an upgrade over Buehrle and Reed will make up for the loss of Santos. Beckham and the big money guys have to justifty Williams faith in them.

[Balta1701]

This is the same team that was supposed to win the division last year.

Except it starts off 8 wins back of last year's performance.

[caulfield12]

1.)- Totally Agree here.

2.)- Ok...good.

3.) - A qualification here - you do this for 1/2 season. If they're good (or one is decent,other not, maybe both average etc.) do a deal and move them BOTH if you can. NEITHER is a fit for this team so get rid of them (or either of them) when the perceived value presents itself. I mean...like the MINUTE either/both looks any good. F***ing garbage, both of them.

4.) I don't know what you mean here. "Extended looks?" They have #s or not. Every single one of these guys you mention are non-starters/bench. Who gives a s***?

5.)- I have absolutely NO IDEA what you mean here. I sort of 1/2 quipped about a post somewhere else were it was projected Dunn will be the #2 producer on this team and I remarked he'd have to surpass Alexei.... It was obviously kind of silly but not really. Alexei is easily the most valuable player on this team. Let me know if you want to argue that.

6.) - No - Let Chris run. All the way. As FAR as he can go. Nobody is going to fall for that McCarthy s*** again.

7.) - Right, well.... we'll see, I guess.

 

 

It's because Ramirez is the single most valuable trade chip we have....bringing back the biggest potential return.

 

Marty34 has been advocating his trade for months now. I'm in between. I do see the point that he will be entering his early to mid 30's as the team theoreticallly starts to compete again in the next 2-3 years, but his salary will also jump up quite a bit 2-3 years from now as well.

 

Because he's such a bargain with both of his contracts (the original one and the one they're now operating under)...he has huge value to about 8-10 teams in baseball, if not more.

 

He does seem to have the type of body that will hold up better than say an Ordonez or Fielder over time, but we can't be 100% sure about his exact age and he does look older than the official age. Then again, so did Contreras and so does Viciedo.

 

 

As far the middle infield...if Beckham flops again and/or Ramirez is traded, you're going to have to replace 2 middle infielders. That's why I said there's a good chance that a couple of those guys will get extended looks. In an ideal world, Beckham hits like at UGA and his first season in the bigs or 2nd half 2010 and the conversation is moot. Certainly, going forward is exponentially more difficult without Gordon playing at close to All-Star level. But we have insurance just in case he flops.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Marty34 has been advocating his trade for months now. I'm in between. I do see the point that he will be entering his early to mid 30's as the team theoreticallly starts to compete again in the next 2-3 years, but his salary will also jump up quite a bit 2-3 years from now as well.

One thing you can also see this year is there hasn't been a whole lot of a market for SS's. Boston even was selling theirs off. Florida replaced theirs when they didn't even need one, and Reyes will probably be on the trade market in a year or two when Florida tries to dump contracts.

[Marty34]

Except it starts off 8 wins back of last year's performance.

 

How do you figure?

 

I believe they'll be better at 5 spots in the order and 3 spots in the rotation than they were last year. Konerko and Humber being guys who decline.

 

[Balta1701]

How do you figure?

 

I believe they'll be better at 5 spots in the order and 3 spots in the rotation than they were last year. Konerko and Humber being guys who decline.

You take Buehrle, Santos, and Quentin out of last year's roster, and we're 8 WAR behind where we were last year. Really is that simple. That's the ground we need to make up just to get back to where we were last year, 78 wins.

 

If we got good seasons from Dunn and Rios, we could still be 2 wins worse than we were last year if everyone else were to repeat their year.

[Marty34]

You take Buehrle, Santos, and Quentin out of last year's roster, and we're 8 WAR behind where we were last year. Really is that simple. That's the ground we need to make up just to get back to where we were last year, 78 wins.

 

If we got good seasons from Dunn and Rios, we could still be 2 wins worse than we were last year if everyone else were to repeat their year.

 

If you thought last year's team was good enough to win the division, I don't see why there is as much pessimism about this year's team because in my opinion they didn't lose anything they didn't have a capable replacement for:

 

1.) '12 Dunn will be better than '11 Dunn

2.) '12 Rios will be better than '11 Rios

3.) '12 Beckham should be better than '11 Beckham

4.) '12 Deaza + '12 Viciedo should be better than '11 Pierre + '11 Quentin.

5.) '12 Morel should be better than '11 Morel

 

Pitching wise Danks, Peavy and Sale should be better than Danks, Buehrle, and Peavy of last year.

 

If Kenny's big money guys produce as expected (Peavy a solid #3) the Sox will contend.

 

[DirtySox]

If you thought last year's team was good enough to win the division, I don't see why there is as much pessimism about this year's team because in my opinion they didn't lose anything they didn't have a capable replacement for:

 

1.) '12 Dunn will be better than '11 Dunn

2.) '12 Rios will be better than '11 Rios

3.) '12 Beckham should be better than '11 Beckham

4.) '12 Deaza + '12 Viciedo should be better than '11 Pierre + '11 Quentin.

5.) '12 Morel should be better than '11 Morel

 

Pitching wise Danks, Peavy and Sale should be better than Danks, Buehrle, and Peavy of last year.

 

If Kenny's big money guys produce as expected (Peavy a solid #3) the Sox will contend.

 

The likelihood that all of these things happen in tandem are remote. The Sox will be lucky to finish above .500 this season.

Edited February 11, 2012 by DirtySox

[Balta1701]

The likelihood that all of these things happen in tandem are remote. The Sox will be lucky to finish above .500 this season.

Last year, with Dunn added in, we should have had enough of a margin for 1 or 2 guys to have below-projection seasons. We had room for Morel to struggle and someone else to have a down year. Instead, we had liek 15-20 guys have below projection seasons.

 

This year, we have basically no margin of error for anyone to struggle if we are going to compete for the division. This includes guys like Konerko and AJ, who are both up there in age and should be expected to perform below last year's level.

[Marty34]

The likelihood that all of these things happen in tandem are remote. The Sox will be lucky to finish above .500 this season.

 

How were they better off in February of 2011 as opposed to February of '12 though? They cut what $30M+ off the payroll and didn't create any real hole on the roster.

[Balta1701]

How were they better off in February of 2011 as opposed to February of '12 though? They cut what $30M+ off the payroll and didn't create any real hole on the roster.

Except the fill-in guys now are all rookies/inexperienced guys, and therefore are pretty big risks...and the bullpen and bench right now are actually holes.

[Marty34]

Except the fill-in guys now are all rookies/inexperienced guys, and therefore are pretty big risks...and the bullpen and bench right now are actually holes.

 

Viciedo and Sale are the standouts of the young players and exactly who you want to replace Quentin and Buehrle. It's likely that it was part of the plan before last year.