Peavy ready for bounce back season

[Jordan4life_2007]

It was awesome.

 

And I love greg. He doesn't bother me like he does most. He reminds me of the black kid from Angels in the Outfield. That doesn't have to be a bad thing. But man. Joey just, wow, that was bad.

[greg775]

if you want to look at this team like a child who gets upset when their favorite players, or the few players they can recognize in a team photo depart the team then I suggest you find another message board.

 

What's with all the blind child references?

I am not wanting Mark because I am like a 12 year old with a crush on him.

He was f***ing good last year.

How many quality starts did he have?

He also has a style of pitching I think is contagious for our other starters.

I AM suggesting he will continue to EXCEL. How many years did Jamie Moyer kick ass?

You guys are nuts if you think I got owned in that post.

I want Mark for his future contributions not his past.

Geez.

 

I'd appreciate the few Greg fans out there to support me on owning him back with my post.

[Jordan4life_2007]

What's with all the blind child references?

I am not wanting Mark because I am like a 12 year old with a crush on him.

He was f***ing good last year.

How many quality starts did he have?

He also has a style of pitching I think is contagious for our other starters.

I AM suggesting he will continue to EXCEL. How many years did Jamie Moyer kick ass?

You guys are nuts if you think I got owned in that post.

I want Mark for his future contributions not his past.

Geez.

 

I'd appreciate the few Greg fans out there to support me on owning him back with my post.

 

lmao

[Milkman delivers]

What's with all the blind child references?

I am not wanting Mark because I am like a 12 year old with a crush on him.

He was f***ing good last year.

How many quality starts did he have?

He also has a style of pitching I think is contagious for our other starters.

I AM suggesting he will continue to EXCEL. How many years did Jamie Moyer kick ass?

You guys are nuts if you think I got owned in that post.

I want Mark for his future contributions not his past.

Geez.

 

I'd appreciate the few Greg fans out there to support me on owning him back with my post.

 

Because you lack the basic baseball knowledge or human logic to do it yourself?

[greg775]

Because you lack the basic baseball knowledge or human logic to do it yourself?

 

I thought I listed some good reasons in disagreeing with his post.

He said I was childlike in my love for Mark.

I say I wanted the Sox to pay Mark not for what he's done but future contributions. You don't think he can have a Moyer-like end to his career? year after year of tons of innings?? I think Mark will stick around and be mighty valuable into his 40s (if he wants to).

[Jordan4life_2007]

I thought I listed some good reasons in disagreeing with his post.

He said I was childlike in my love for Mark.

I say I wanted the Sox to pay Mark not for what he's done but future contributions. You don't think he can have a Moyer-like end to his career? year after year of tons of innings?? I think Mark will stick around and be mighty valuable into his 40s (if he wants to).

 

So pay Mark nearly $15 million a year for the next 4 years so he can be the next Moyer when/if he makes it to 40? Yeah, not very smart. Greg, how has Dye, Jenks and Wise fared since leaving the Sox?

[caulfield12]

The question isn't what he will do so much, and there's a good possibility he does have a productive couple of seasons....it's that the White Sox can't afford to pay him the rate the Marlins are going forward.

 

That's it. Whether it's fair or right or just that we are losing Mark because of Dunn/Rios/Peavy, it really doesn't matter. If it makes you hate KW because he backed himself into this position by some of his ill-fated moves, then it's up to you if you want to support another team because of your anger/ire with the GM.

 

Or you can be angry with JR and the ownership group/partners for not shelling out the money and putting themselves into a financial straightjacket.

 

I guess the only way to really understand is to play some type of simulation game where you get to be the owner of the White Sox and you have to take out a personal loan/lien on your house in order to keep Mark Buehrle around for 4 more years or you do what's in your financial best interest and let him walk and don't expose yourself to an inordinate degree of financial risk going forward.

 

Basically, KW leveraged the White Sox into upping the payroll to $127-128 million and it's going to take 2-3 more years to completely deleverage....or Rios/Dunn simply performing at the level they're paid to, that would be a nice surprise as well.

[caulfield12]

So pay Mark nearly $15 million a year for the next 4 years so he can be the next Moyer when/if he makes it to 40? Yeah, not very smart. Greg, how has Dye, Jenks and Wise fared since leaving the Sox?

 

About as well as Juan Pierre.

[greg775]

About as well as Juan Pierre.

 

Juan Pierre arguably had a decent season last year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Juan Pierre arguably had a decent season last year.

 

No, he didn't. And that's why he could do no better than a minor league deal with the Phillies. Just because your hero foolishly trotted out a 4th OF with no discernible skill (unless declining speed is a skill) every day doesn't mean he was decent.

[chw42]

Juan Pierre arguably had a decent season last year.

 

So decent that he couldn't get a major league deal, let alone a starting job.

 

[Dick Allen]

He actually said a majority of the board voted to sell the team?

Never said majority, he either said several or many or a few, but he did say, Jerry said no, so it was no. It certainly didn't seem like it was brought to the BOD, which, BTW, Jerry handpicked. And if it was Stern only mentioned Jerry's veto as the only thing that really mattered. If the investors want to sell their shares and get out, I don't think it would be difficult to do.

[hogan873]

I thought I listed some good reasons in disagreeing with his post.

He said I was childlike in my love for Mark.

I say I wanted the Sox to pay Mark not for what he's done but future contributions. You don't think he can have a Moyer-like end to his career? year after year of tons of innings?? I think Mark will stick around and be mighty valuable into his 40s (if he wants to).

Maybe, just maybe Mark can pitch into his 40s. His pitching style may allow that. But you're missing the most fundamental part of this argument: No team, including the White Sox, was willing to pay him nearly $60 million over four years...except for the spendthrift Marlins. And they heavily backloaded the contract, which will make him untradeable unless they eat a ton of cash. And chances are, the Marlins will be looking to shed payroll in a couple years.

 

You can't pay a guy $15 million a year in the hopes that he'll be great in his late 30s. I hope Mark does well, and he may very well post a 4.00 ERA and win 13 or 14 games and eat 200+ innings. But is that worth locking up $60 million? Not to the Sox, and not to just about any other team. Except for the Marlins...who will regret it.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

What's with all the blind child references?

I am not wanting Mark because I am like a 12 year old with a crush on him.

He was f***ing good last year.

How many quality starts did he have?

He also has a style of pitching I think is contagious for our other starters.

I AM suggesting he will continue to EXCEL. How many years did Jamie Moyer kick ass?

You guys are nuts if you think I got owned in that post.

I want Mark for his future contributions not his past.

Geez.

 

I'd appreciate the few Greg fans out there to support me on owning him back with my post.

 

Was this really typed? Come on, an admin had to have done this as a joke...right?

[ptatc]

Never said majority, he either said several or many or a few, but he did say, Jerry said no, so it was no. It certainly didn't seem like it was brought to the BOD, which, BTW, Jerry handpicked. And if it was Stern only mentioned Jerry's veto as the only thing that really mattered. If the investors want to sell their shares and get out, I don't think it would be difficult to do.

This is the point you should have made earlier. This is correct. Jerry built the group to buy the team with mostly close associates who will agree with him. This way he will always have the majority of votes on his side. However, if they ever turned against him and voted against him, he could not overrule thier vote. This is unlikely as he has made them so much money in real estate deals that it wouldn't be worth it for them.

 

Your premise of selliong the team is still flawed. If a minority of owners wanted to sell and a majoirty didn't, the team wouldn't be sold regardless of who was the Chairman. What happened was that Jerry didn't want to sell and so his group didn't sell. The people who wanted to sell could sell their shares to someone else if approved by the board. I believe a couple did and Jerry even bought someone's shares.

[Balta1701]

Juan Pierre arguably had a decent season last year.

Absolutely not. There is zero sense in which Juan Pierre had a decent season last year.

[southsider2k5]

Never said majority, he either said several or many or a few, but he did say, Jerry said no, so it was no. It certainly didn't seem like it was brought to the BOD, which, BTW, Jerry handpicked. And if it was Stern only mentioned Jerry's veto as the only thing that really mattered. If the investors want to sell their shares and get out, I don't think it would be difficult to do.

 

That doesn't even make sense. If there wasn't a majority vote, it doesn't matter what was said. There was no action taken. Maybe Jerry changed minds, but he didn't prevent the board from making a sale. Those are vastly different things.

[hogan873]

Absolutely not. There is zero sense in which Juan Pierre had a decent season last year.

His BA was okay, but his defense was terrible and his speed was waaaaay down. If he had had a decent season, he would have gotten more than a minor league deal.

[Balta1701]

His BA was okay, but his defense was terrible and his speed was waaaaay down. If he had had a decent season, he would have gotten more than a minor league deal.

And during that stretch where the Sox went 5-15 and really fell out of the race, he hit .233, .550 OPS, and that's on top of trying to destroy Matt Thornton.

[joeynach]

What's with all the blind child references?

I am not wanting Mark because I am like a 12 year old with a crush on him.

He was f***ing good last year.

How many quality starts did he have?

He also has a style of pitching I think is contagious for our other starters.

I AM suggesting he will continue to EXCEL. How many years did Jamie Moyer kick ass?

You guys are nuts if you think I got owned in that post.

I want Mark for his future contributions not his past.

Geez.

 

I'd appreciate the few Greg fans out there to support me on owning him back with my post.

 

I wasn't really tring to be a di**, but I am just so sick of people, grown men and women, on the other site that I run complaining about not bringing back Mark like some little kid whose player left via Free gency or a trade and they dont understand why...they are just upset the guy on the poster in their room is now gone. But I still thinkin you are looking at the MB sitution in way too much of a bubble. No team has finite resources and retaining Mark takes some of those resources, look at the Red Sox, they have no RF and trade away their SS last week in a salary dump last week so they could stay in budget. Mark was offered salaries of $10, $12, and $14M on the open market, and guess which one he took. But dont forget one of the #1 reasons the Sox had success in 2005 is b/c they did not reseign Magglio Ordonez and they saved themselves the $14M/year he was supposedely offered by the Sox, he obviously signed with Det for much more. But KW even said that $14M allowed the Sox to fill multiple holes and make the team better as a whole. The $ was spent on Dye in RF, Iguchi at 2B, and El Duque as the 5th Starter.....and all 3 of those pieces contributedly greatly to a 99 win team and WS title. On the other hand Magglio signed like a 6 Year $110M deal with Detroit, and yeah he had a good 05, 06, 07, but as he approached his mid 30s toward the back end of the deal he was often injuried and unproductive as the Tigers paid him like $18M per. Basically KW made the right decision. Detroit paid Maggs on past performance, KW probably would have loved to resign Maggs on a 3 or 4 Year deal, but again, he knew you dont pay a player based on what they produced in the past, you pay on what you expect them to produce in the future. And very rarely does anyone expect 33/34 Year old Free Agents to continue to produce at the levels they have in the past.....the only time its ever happened has been with blatent steriod abuse (Bonds, Clemens, Palmerio, etc).

 

And again dont look at MB in a bubble, look at the White Sox, what if MB's non return for the Sox is the only way KW was able to extend Danks for 5 Years, what if Danks then wins a Cy Young or takes us to the playoffs. What if Chris Sale or Zach Stewart, who take MB's spot in the rotation emerge as absolute studs, posting 5x better numbers than MB. What if one of those guys is then traded for the next Posey, Strasburg, or young rising star, etc etc. What if the Sox are able to spend in the Cespedes sweepstakes, rumored to be as high as $60M, only b/c they saved $50M+ on not retaining Mark. What if Cespedes comes here and is ROY and is the next young rising star. The point is want whats best for the White Sox from 2012 and beyond, not whats best for yourself as a fan, whats most comfortable for you, not whats easiest for your kids to recognize, not whats continous....just whats best. And IMO and most on this board, if there is even a glimmer of hope that any of those situations I mentioned above come true for the Sox, then its 110% worth the risk of not re-signed MB.

 

And your Jamie Moyer comp though...bleh. Yeah he pitched into his late 30s and 40s but no one was bending over backwards to hand with guy near $15M per year. The highest salary he ever made was $8M in 2005. The Mariners soon dumped him after that, he spent like 4 season with Philly making around $6M a year to produce ERAs of 5.01, 3.71, 4.94, and 4.84. While his K rate declined from 6.01 in 2007 to 5.08 in 2010. I really dont think thats a model pitcher you want to match the Marlins 4 Year $58M offer for, I wouldnt even offer half that for those numbers no matter what the pitchers name is.

Edited February 7, 2012 by joeynach

[Dick Allen]

That doesn't even make sense. If there wasn't a majority vote, it doesn't matter what was said. There was no action taken. Maybe Jerry changed minds, but he didn't prevent the board from making a sale. Those are vastly different things.

It was from Lee Stern who actually is a board member. If you really don't believe BODs give the chairman carte blanche check out my former employer MF Global.

[joeynach]

Absolutely not. There is zero sense in which Juan Pierre had a decent season last year.

 

 

I would say its safe to assume that when you are coming off a $9M salary one year, then the next year you are only able to secure a minor league contract, then its safe to say that your last season was NOT that great for you. But hey that just me.

[oldsox]

Sox need the General Manager to have a bounce back decade.

[YASNY]

It was from Lee Stern who actually is a board member. If you really don't believe BODs give the chairman carte blanche check out my former employer MF Global.

 

If the BOD gave JR carte blanche, it's because they trust him to make wise decisions based on his accumen as a businessman. And in that regard, he has done so consistently. If you love at the Sox from 68 through the 70's, until JR and EE bought the Sox and then what's happened since that purchase, to say nothing of the Bulls, then you should be a big fan of JR>

[Dick Allen]

If the BOD gave JR carte blanche, it's because they trust him to make wise decisions based on his accumen as a businessman. And in that regard, he has done so consistently. If you love at the Sox from 68 through the 70's, until JR and EE bought the Sox and then what's happened since that purchase, to say nothing of the Bulls, then you should be a big fan of JR>

From all appearances, JR does listen to his partners and does probably operate using a consensus. I'm just pointing out that if JR wanted to veer off course, he'd get his way.