Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 4, 2012 -> 04:38 PM) I may be misunderstanding this... but if the general fund is negative outbound, and therefore is using equivalent funds from the Treasury that would otherwise had been held in trust for Soc Sec, then it is still borrowing. In reality, the positions should be segregated, but they don't really do it that way. Even if the general fund were positive, if we were paying off the national debt, the Social Security trust fund would still be purchasing treasury bonds any time it is a positive state, unless we got rid of the trust fund. If both funds are positive, the Trust Fund would still be stockpiling Treasuries...and the moneys the government gets for those treasuries would then go towards paying off other treasuries that aren't renewed. Effectively you're right that the government has been buoyed towards surpluses the last 30 years by the fact that the trust fund has been positive, and those surpluses have been the fuel for the upper class tax cuts...but there's no real obvious way to segregate these funds unless the Trust Fund doesn't exist. If excess funds come into OASDI to create a trust fund, they have to go somewhere, and Treasuries are the only logical candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 By the way, on the thread topic...it's actually official...Barack Hussein Obama has gathered up enough delegates to become the Democratic Nominee for President in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 4, 2012 -> 03:47 PM) Even if the general fund were positive, if we were paying off the national debt, the Social Security trust fund would still be purchasing treasury bonds any time it is a positive state, unless we got rid of the trust fund. If both funds are positive, the Trust Fund would still be stockpiling Treasuries...and the moneys the government gets for those treasuries would then go towards paying off other treasuries that aren't renewed. Effectively you're right that the government has been buoyed towards surpluses the last 30 years by the fact that the trust fund has been positive, and those surpluses have been the fuel for the upper class tax cuts...but there's no real obvious way to segregate these funds unless the Trust Fund doesn't exist. If excess funds come into OASDI to create a trust fund, they have to go somewhere, and Treasuries are the only logical candidate. I just want to say that this particular use of the term "trust fund" is akin to politicians wanting to take away some group's rights and calling it protecting "freedom". What you are describing is not a trust fund by any reasonable definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 5, 2012 -> 10:00 AM) I just want to say that this particular use of the term "trust fund" is akin to politicians wanting to take away some group's rights and calling it protecting "freedom". What you are describing is not a trust fund by any reasonable definition. "Having a big pile of Treasury Bills built up because one particular program ran a surplus" seems to work for me. If you're taking issue with how its structured, then the thing that the extra revenues should have been used for is to take extra Treasury bills off of the market. Instead, we slashed taxes. That was the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yet another reason to not vote Obama: needless pandering to the anti-gay movement. Nice to see Focus on the Family coming out in support of this! http://motherjones.com/transition/inter.ph...s-pander-haters He's delaying signing an executive order that bans LGBT discrimination among federal contractors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) An examination of why the JOBS bill Obama signed is so terrible, and why he deserves at least some of the blame http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs...bs-act-20120412 eta it also serves as a nice exposition of why large parts of the financial sector are basically just legalized theft. Edited April 13, 2012 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Apparently the President is hosting a campaign event in Afghanistan and has another national-address styled event scheduled for tonight, on the 1 year anniversary of the killing of Bin Laden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 1, 2012 -> 02:47 PM) Apparently the President is hosting a campaign event in Afghanistan and has another national-address styled event scheduled for tonight, on the 1 year anniversary of the killing of Bin Laden. Good thing he's not politicizing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 1, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) Good thing he's not politicizing that. who wouldn't? At least he isn't dressing up in a flight suit, that would be ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 1, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) who wouldn't? At least he isn't dressing up in a flight suit, that would be ridiculous! No, the accomplishment is fine, the crap about Romney not making the same decision is crap. Of all things, finding and killing Bin Laden should have been a non-partisan issue. It should have been a collective, celebratory anniversary. Instead Obama crapped all over that and used it to try and score political points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2012 -> 04:01 PM) No, the accomplishment is fine, the crap about Romney not making the same decision is crap. Of all things, finding and killing Bin Laden should have been a non-partisan issue. It should have been a collective, celebratory anniversary. Instead Obama crapped all over that and used it to try and score political points. I think the Afghanistan trip/speech is crap, but this is one case where the President has every right to take a victory lap on this issue. He got called Naive and inexperienced/unready in 2008 by these same opponents when he said he would violate Pakistani sovereignty if it allowed for "Getting" Bin Laden. He was intimately involved in the decision making that led up to the strike by multiple accounts. He would have taken enormous amounts of blame if things went wrong (Desert One). This was a major success for this Adminstration. It was clearly a partisan issue as early as 2002, when we refocused away from Al Qaeda onto Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:01 PM) No, the accomplishment is fine, the crap about Romney not making the same decision is crap. Of all things, finding and killing Bin Laden should have been a non-partisan issue. It should have been a collective, celebratory anniversary. Instead Obama crapped all over that and used it to try and score political points. The decision to go ahead with a high-risk operation in a foreign country without their knowledge and approval is not an open-and-shut case. edit: "even Carter would have done it" with that implication that Carter was weak is a pretty dumb thing to say, too, since Carter, you know, approved that rescue operation into Iran that ended tragically. Edited May 2, 2012 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) I think the Afghanistan trip/speech is crap, but this is one case where the President has every right to take a victory lap on this issue. He got called Naive and inexperienced/unready in 2008 by these same opponents when he said he would violate Pakistani sovereignty if it allowed for "Getting" Bin Laden. He was intimately involved in the decision making that led up to the strike by multiple accounts. He would have taken enormous amounts of blame if things went wrong (Desert One). This was a major success for this Adminstration. It was clearly a partisan issue as early as 2002, when we refocused away from Al Qaeda onto Iraq. So for once let's have a President be above all that petty s***. He could have gotten his due (as if he hasn't already) by simply remembering the accomplishment, not starting a "see! i've got balls! Romney wouldn't have given the go ahead like I did!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 Going after Romney does seem pretty cheap, though. He could have done a victory lap and scored political points without resorting to that. It's pretty dumb politically because it's not like Obama's going to flip the "Dems are weak on military/CT" script with that shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:29 PM) The decision to go ahead with a high-risk operation in a foreign country without their knowledge and approval is not an open-and-shut case. edit: "even Carter would have done it" with that implication that Carter was weak is a pretty dumb thing to say, too, since Carter, you know, approved that rescue operation into Iran that ended tragically. Bush and Obama said they would do that years before Osama's whereabouts were known. It really wasn't all that shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) Going after Romney does seem pretty cheap, though. He could have done a victory lap and scored political points without resorting to that. It's pretty dumb politically because it's not like Obama's going to flip the "Dems are weak on military/CT" script with that shot. I totally disagree with the idea that this is somehow politically dumb. The whole reason why the Republicans, including both Romney and 2 posts above, are annoyed, is that this is an effective attack that can literally use the current candidate's own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) I totally disagree with the idea that this is somehow politically dumb. The whole reason why the Republicans, including both Romney and 2 posts above, are annoyed, is that this is an effective attack that can literally use the current candidate's own words. Except that (and here we go 'round the political merry go round) Romney didn't say he wouldn't have given the go ahead. His comment was something like I would have focused my efforts elsewhere. Which, by the way, is exactly what Obama did until they got a solid lead with Osama's courier. Edit: and let's face it, the President isn't involved with any of this until the Pentagon needs a yes/no answer on a mission. Was he briefed? Yes. But it's not like he's providing the Pentagon with a strategy to best utilize the courier or the best tactical plan to get Bin Laden. He was presented with the first chance in 7-8 years of finding out where Bin Laden was and he said "absolutely, go for it." Do you really doubt that Romney would have said "nah f*** it, who needs Bin Laden?" Edited May 2, 2012 by Jenksismybitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) Bush and Obama said they would do that years before Osama's whereabouts were known. It really wasn't all that shocking. Bush, at one point, said he didn't give a s*** where Osama was. I think Obama was talking about this specific operation which was far from a guaranteed thing. He could have decided to hold and wait for more information and an increased likelihood of success but chose to proceed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) I totally disagree with the idea that this is somehow politically dumb. The whole reason why the Republicans, including both Romney and 2 posts above, are annoyed, is that this is an effective attack that can literally use the current candidate's own words. the sound byte on this is different when the entire statement is heard/read. context. but i'm sure that won't stop NBC News from cutting it up and pasting in stuff from other Romney interviews to give it that extra 'spice' the story needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ May 2, 2012 -> 04:36 PM) Except that (and here we go 'round the political merry go round) Romney didn't say he wouldn't have given the go ahead. His comment was something like I would have focused my efforts elsewhere. Which, by the way, is exactly what Obama did until they got a solid lead with Osama's courier. Actually, no it isn't again, there was a total shift in orders back to "Find this specific target", and the intelligence agencies said it was about a 50/50 shot when the order was given, and there was substantial disagreement in the room, including by the secretary of defense who favored a drone strike (because then if it hit the wrong target, it was just more collateral damage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) Bush, at one point, said he didn't give a s*** where Osama was. I think Obama was talking about this specific operation which was far from a guaranteed thing. He could have decided to hold and wait for more information and an increased likelihood of success but chose to proceed. I find that incredibly hard to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted May 2, 2012 Author Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) I totally disagree with the idea that this is somehow politically dumb. The whole reason why the Republicans, including both Romney and 2 posts above, are annoyed, is that this is an effective attack that can literally use the current candidate's own words. Are low-information undecided voters really going to buy into the idea that the Republican candidate, the guy representing the party constantly calling for war, is soft on terror? He could have bragged about his decision and implied that it was a tough choice that not everyone would have made. This would still have gotten Romney on the defensive but then it isn't such a blatant partisan attack. On the other hand, Republicans whining about using this as a partisan cudgel is pretty funny in light of the 2002-2008 use of 9/11 and removing Saddam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) Actually, no it isn't again, there was a total shift in orders back to "Find this specific target", and the intelligence agencies said it was about a 50/50 shot when the order was given, and there was substantial disagreement in the room, including by the secretary of defense who favored a drone strike (because then if it hit the wrong target, it was just more collateral damage). There was an effort to revamp the search for Bin Laden and it started in the Pentagon, not the White House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ May 2, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) Are low-information undecided voters really going to buy into the idea that the Republican candidate, the guy representing the party constantly calling for war, is soft on terror? He could have bragged about his decision and implied that it was a tough choice that not everyone would have made. This would still have gotten Romney on the defensive but then it isn't such a blatant partisan attack. On the other hand, Republicans whining about using this as a partisan cudgel is pretty funny in light of the 2002-2008 use of 9/11 and removing Saddam. No more funny than Democrats exploiting it after complaining for years about Republicans doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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