daa84 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) the thing that bothers me most about this saints thing is the fact that it seems like NFL players want to have it both ways. Defenses want to go out and head hunt, and injure guys. THey are celebrating it. They don't want to be called for penalties on hitting the QB, receivers, etc. Yet, at the end of the day NFL players are saying the league doesn't do enoguh to protect the players from injuries, doesnt take care of their own employees? Even if the players who are rewarded for big hits, aren't the ones advocating for better player safety and better health care by the NFL, they are still sending the wrong message the media/fans, which is working against those like Hillenmeyer who are fighting for fair compensation. The players union IMO should be the ones to truly come out and speak strongly against the bounty hunting Edited March 3, 2012 by daa84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Brees officially tagged. Colston and Nicks will be unrestricted free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Peyton Manning is back doing some solid throwing workouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 3, 2012 -> 04:36 PM) Brees officially tagged. Colston and Nicks will be unrestricted free agents. I'll take both of them in Chicago please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 3, 2012 -> 07:25 PM) I'll take both of them in Chicago please. Probably only cap space for 1 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Getting Nicks would be an imprudent use of money. We have plenty of talent on the interior of the line, regardless of how much of an upgrade he would be. If we are going to actually use that cap space, we should use it where it would do the most good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 3, 2012 -> 07:46 PM) Getting Nicks would be an imprudent use of money. We have plenty of talent on the interior of the line, regardless of how much of an upgrade he would be. If we are going to actually use that cap space, we should use it where it would do the most good. I can't say I agree. This team will live and die with Jay Cutler. I don't see how it is ever a bad thing to improve the wall in front of him. I'd say we have more TALENT on the outside at tackle in Webb, Carimi and Louis if you want to count him. If I had my way, we'd be Carimi/Williams/Spencer/Garza/Louis left to right based on the guys we have right now. But apparently Cutler has a real comfort level with Garza at center. Basically all 5 guys can play more than one position, so it's a matter of who does what best. Nicks would be a valuable asset any way you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 3, 2012 -> 07:46 PM) Getting Nicks would be an imprudent use of money. We have plenty of talent on the interior of the line, regardless of how much of an upgrade he would be. If we are going to actually use that cap space, we should use it where it would do the most good. I disagree. The guard spot may be somewhat filled, but I think having a top guy would help you concentrate on the other positions. Sign him now Chris Wiliams sucks, just because he might be "OK", shouldnt prevent the Bears from signing Nicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 02:41 AM) I can't say I agree. This team will live and die with Jay Cutler. I don't see how it is ever a bad thing to improve the wall in front of him. I'd say we have more TALENT on the outside at tackle in Webb, Carimi and Louis if you want to count him. If I had my way, we'd be Carimi/Williams/Spencer/Garza/Louis left to right based on the guys we have right now. But apparently Cutler has a real comfort level with Garza at center. Basically all 5 guys can play more than one position, so it's a matter of who does what best. Nicks would be a valuable asset any way you slice it. I don't think he was saying Nicks wouldn't improve this team but saying we are better at the OG spot with with Spencer/Louis/Williams than WR clearly and if you had to choose the easy option is an upgrade at WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 03:22 AM) I don't think he was saying Nicks wouldn't improve this team but saying we are better at the OG spot with with Spencer/Louis/Williams than WR clearly and if you had to choose the easy option is an upgrade at WR. Well it might be easier to upgrade WR in free agency than oline, I think it's also easier to upgrade WR in the draft than it is oline. Hence, if you're going to spend big, it's not a bad idea to address oline in FA and WR in the draft. Either way, I highly doubt Nicks would be coming to the Bears anyway because of his likely price tag. I just happen to think he's about as safe a bet as you can have in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 04:28 AM) Well it might be easier to upgrade WR in free agency than oline, I think it's also easier to upgrade WR in the draft than it is oline. Hence, if you're going to spend big, it's not a bad idea to address oline in FA and WR in the draft. Either way, I highly doubt Nicks would be coming to the Bears anyway because of his likely price tag. I just happen to think he's about as safe a bet as you can have in free agency. Actually, I think it's harder to upgrade WR in the draft than OL is, because WR has this nasty habit of taking several seasons to develop. OLine, a guy from the 2nd round can step in and make a difference based on talent alone. In the WR's area, you occasionally get a Randy Moss who can do that, but even guys like Calvin Johnson take a couple years before they truly start ripping the league apart. The fact that there's this big, longn development process at that position in particular makes me think it's easier to upgrade OL in the draft than WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 03:22 AM) I don't think he was saying Nicks wouldn't improve this team but saying we are better at the OG spot with with Spencer/Louis/Williams than WR clearly and if you had to choose the easy option is an upgrade at WR. This is exactly what I was trying to say. Paying a lot of money for a guard is a luxury at this point, and paying for luxuries gets you in a position like the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) This is exactly what I was trying to say. Paying a lot of money for a guard is a luxury at this point, and paying for luxuries gets you in a position like the Eagles. If the Bears spend a lot of money on a guard, it's probably because they decided to move Williams back to tackle. Possible, but dunno if Tice is up for that kind of shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 01:12 PM) If the Bears spend a lot of money on a guard, it's probably because they decided to move Williams back to tackle. Possible, but dunno if Tice is up for that kind of shift. Fair point, but they would have to be pretty sure that he is a surefire left tackle to take on that risk. Improving at guard only to regress at tackle seems like a net loss to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (gatnom @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) Fair point, but they would have to be pretty sure that he is a surefire left tackle to take on that risk. Improving at guard only to regress at tackle seems like a net loss to me. I've defended Webb and wouldn't be surprised if they gave him another shot, but I have to say..."Regressing at tackle" would be pretty darn difficult. Hell, the fact that Omiyale will not play there is automatically an upgrade. If Webb takes the Tackle spot, then worst case scenario he's about where he was last year, and Carimi hopefully comes back on the other side. If Williams takes that spot, he's taking it hopefully because he's outplaying webb, and then the interior is hopefully shored up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 09:58 AM) Actually, I think it's harder to upgrade WR in the draft than OL is, because WR has this nasty habit of taking several seasons to develop. OLine, a guy from the 2nd round can step in and make a difference based on talent alone. In the WR's area, you occasionally get a Randy Moss who can do that, but even guys like Calvin Johnson take a couple years before they truly start ripping the league apart. The fact that there's this big, longn development process at that position in particular makes me think it's easier to upgrade OL in the draft than WR. The hard part is, good left tackles typcially are 1st round picks. With wideouts, they tend to come from multiple rounds. I agree rookie wideouts can have trouble making an impact but I still think in this draft, you draft 2 wideouts early and than sign a guy like Wayne & Royal and you have problems solved. You may not have a true #1, but you at least have multiple guys that can play. Probably completely unrealistic but I think the Bears need a lot of help at the wideout position. I'd spend my free agent money on a guy like Carlson and a CB like Carr and would than look at a DE or LB plus a FA tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) If the Bears spend a lot of money on a guard, it's probably because they decided to move Williams back to tackle. Possible, but dunno if Tice is up for that kind of shift. The Bears have solid guards and guard isn't a difference maker position, imo. You just don't spend 60M on guard play, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) The Bears have solid guards and guard isn't a difference maker position, imo. You just don't spend 60M on guard play, imo. I know they had the best backfield in the league at that time, but Hutchinson moving from Seattle to Minnesota tells me it can be a difference-making position. Probably other examples I could come up with given more time, but that's one that stands out to me where a team signed a FA guard and it massively upgraded their O-Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 01:47 PM) I've defended Webb and wouldn't be surprised if they gave him another shot, but I have to say..."Regressing at tackle" would be pretty darn difficult. Hell, the fact that Omiyale will not play there is automatically an upgrade. If Webb takes the Tackle spot, then worst case scenario he's about where he was last year, and Carimi hopefully comes back on the other side. If Williams takes that spot, he's taking it hopefully because he's outplaying webb, and then the interior is hopefully shored up. I think you're making my point for me here. The only place on the line that we really need an upgrade is LT, and signing a guard so that one of your current guards, whom you moved to guard in the first place, can move back over to tackle is not exactly a great plan for upgrading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) The Bears have solid guards and guard isn't a difference maker position, imo. You just don't spend 60M on guard play, imo. I would rather spend the money on a tackle, but All-Pro lineman don't hit free agency very often. Guards are very important in the run game and the difference between Nicks & Williams would be significant. Plus, the Bears will have Carimi next year, so you have to see if he solidifies one of the tackle sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) I would rather spend the money on a tackle, but All-Pro lineman don't hit free agency very often. Guards are very important in the run game and the difference between Nicks & Williams would be significant. Plus, the Bears will have Carimi next year, so you have to see if he solidifies one of the tackle sports. Free agent O-Linemen are money wasters, You get one of two good seasons, then they get too old and expensive. John Tait, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) Free agent O-Linemen are money wasters, You get one of two good seasons, then they get too old and expensive. John Tait, etc. Nicks is what, 26? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 08:02 PM) Nicks is what, 26? You could get 2 good seasons and 3 average seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) Free agent O-Linemen are money wasters, You get one of two good seasons, then they get too old and expensive. John Tait, etc. I would say the Bears got their money worth with Tait. Then he retired due to injuries and forgoed his 2008 salary. Carl Nicks is 26 and is twice the player Tait was. As Balta mentioned, look at the Steve Hutchinson signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 07:01 PM) Free agent O-Linemen are money wasters, You get one of two good seasons, then they get too old and expensive. John Tait, etc. QUOTE (knightni @ Mar 4, 2012 -> 07:13 PM) You could get 2 good seasons and 3 average seasons. Dude, what? Not evert FA offensive linemen is Alen Faneca. How could you possibly make a generalization like this and then simply cite John Tait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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