Kyyle23 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) I really think Tice needs to be blamed for that. The Oline is his baby, and it's an ugly baby. We have a bottom 5 Oline every year. you can put a dress on a pig..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:23 PM) I'm fully expecting us to lose, after two games where we should've won, I'm not very hopeful for Sunday. I do think it'll be a close game but Cutler has just been awful against the Pack's D. I have very little faith in the Bears winning either, that's why I'm surprised the spread is so low. Then again, the Packers injury situation is much worse than the Bears is, although Woodson and/or Matthews may be available Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 He's been given absolute s*** to work with. I really don't believe that he's given zero input on who to put on this line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Consider this: Our starters on the Oline were TERRIBLE at pass blocking. Then a few of them go down due to injuries and we're forced to put some backups in, suddenly our Oline is slightly better at pass blocking. explain that. Because frankly, that s*** mystifies me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) I really don't believe that he's given zero input on who to put on this line. He's not drafting or scouting the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 03:32 PM) He's not drafting or scouting the players. Really, the O-line coach isn't involved in scouting players for his O-line? That'd be one heckuva fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) He's not drafting or scouting the players. He's giving plenty of input on the type of players he wants. Webb is his project, and has been for years. Webb is also one of the worst starting LTs in the NFL, and has been for years. did you see Webb get beat yesterday? He's going inside and allowing a free release on rushers from the outside. It was turrible. Edited December 10, 2012 by RZZZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Consider this: Our starters on the Oline were TERRIBLE at pass blocking. Then a few of them go down due to injuries and we're forced to put some backups in, suddenly our Oline is slightly better at pass blocking. explain that. Because frankly, that s*** mystifies me. The backups right now are Jonathan Scott who is a veteran tackle, Edwin Williams who was actually really good last season replacing Chris Williams(but got beat out by Chilo Rachal) and they moved Gabe Carimi inside. I cant explain why Carimi is playing better now, but the other two guys have done this before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I would be terrified if Ted Thompson was asking his o-line coach who to draft. They may have some input, but there are full time scouts watching these players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 The backups right now are Jonathan Scott who is a veteran tackle, Edwin Williams who was actually really good last season replacing Chris Williams(but got beat out by Chilo Rachal) and they moved Gabe Carimi inside. I cant explain why Carimi is playing better now, but the other two guys have done this before exactly though, our backups are better than our starters in many cases. I can't justify or explain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) I think our offense looked much crisper under Martz. Maybe someone could find the stats to prove my point, I'm in a bit of a rush right now, but at least Jays individual statistics bear this out. And for all of Tice's talk of protecting the QB he has not been able to do it any better than Martz did. He's got 31 sacks now. Last year at 7-3 Jay was sacked 21 times. They were average/below-average in points/game* under Martz and towards the bottom in yards/game. *that includes defensive and special teams points, which were 4 TD's in 2011 and 10 TD's in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I'll take an average offense now, aren't we ranked near the very bottom this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) exactly though, our backups are better than our starters in many cases. I can't justify or explain that. In this case it was really one guy. Gabe Carimi. Rachal was actually pretty good, Louis was as well. Carimi was bad, and Webb continues to be bad. But the thing that happened here was half of the bad was replaced, Scott replacing Carimi. The rest of the line and TEs are helping out Webb. The focus on protecting Cutler is narrowing. And I am not trying to say I like Tice as OC, because I really dont, but I think the crap he has been given for O line is just that, crap. Hard for me to be mad at him for not turning below average players into stars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 But Tice loves Webb, he never treated him as if he was crap. He goes on and on about his size and athleticism and potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) In this case it was really one guy. Gabe Carimi. Rachal was actually pretty good, Louis was as well. Carimi was bad, and Webb continues to be bad. But the thing that happened here was half of the bad was replaced, Scott replacing Carimi. The rest of the line and TEs are helping out Webb. The focus on protecting Cutler is narrowing. And I am not trying to say I like Tice as OC, because I really dont, but I think the crap he has been given for O line is just that, crap. Hard for me to be mad at him for not turning below average players into stars Tice hasnt been as advertised but hell, we have the best QB we've probably had in my lifetime back there and we are plugging holes with crap. How many O Lineman are starting right now in last season's draft that were selected after our pass rushing LB/DE that we drafted? Its moronic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) I would be terrified if Ted Thompson was asking his o-line coach who to draft. They may have some input, but there are full time scouts watching these players. The Bears haven't exactly done much o-line drafting since Tice has been here, anyway. They drafted Webb in 2010, but Tice had only been there a few months at that point and he was a 7th round pick. They drafted Carimi last year, who is inexplicably playing poorly at RT. They drafted no o-line this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) The Bears haven't exactly done much o-line drafting since Tice has been here, anyway. They drafted Webb in 2010, but Tice had only been there a few months at that point and he was a 7th round pick. They drafted Carimi last year, who is inexplicably playing poorly at RT. They drafted no o-line this year. The Bears not taking at least one o-line in the last draft was amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:47 PM) But Tice loves Webb, he never treated him as if he was crap. He goes on and on about his size and athleticism and potential. Webb is the best LT the Bears have, according to Tice. Scary, but true unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:51 PM) The Bears not taking at least one o-line in the last draft was amazing. But we NEEDED Shea McAsshat to run by the QB over and over till he gets hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) I'll take an average offense now, aren't we ranked near the very bottom this year? We're above-average right now, though that's somewhat inflated by 8 defensive & special teams TD's. Still, we have 9 rushing TD's and 18 passing TD's so far this year. All of last year, we had 10 and 18. In 2010, it was 10 & 23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:53 PM) But we NEEDED Shea McAsshat to run by the QB over and over till he gets hurt. At least we didn't have to suffer false hopes after Jerry left for long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:53 PM) But we NEEDED Shea McAsshat to run by the QB over and over till he gets hurt. It's not just the first round. They could have still taken a guy in the 3rd or 4th round. Edited December 10, 2012 by GoSox05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) It's not just the first round. They could have still taken a guy in the 3rd or 4th round. I know but there are starting tackles selected right after McMuffin that are producing in the NFL. Such a ridiculous draft pick. He lets go for the 34 pass rushing LB!! We run a 4-3 for god sakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:53 PM) We're above-average right now, though that's somewhat inflated by 8 defensive & special teams TD's. Still, we have 9 rushing TD's and 18 passing TD's so far this year. All of last year, we had 10 and 18. In 2010, it was 10 & 23. Above average by what metric? 14th in the league in points per game, which as you said is extremely inflated by the TDs the defense has scored. In yards per game, they are the 28th ranked offense. Sounds below average to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 10, 2012 -> 02:58 PM) Above average by what metric? 14th in the league in points per game, which as you said is extremely inflated by the TDs the defense has scored. In yards per game, they are the 28th ranked offense. Sounds below average to me. Rzza was replying to a post where I pointed out that we were dead-average (2011) or a little below-average (2010) under Martz if you measure by pts/game. We are 28th in yds/game this year, were 24th last year and 30th in 2010. I'm not saying our offense is good, but I don't get the pining for Martz. We're one rushing TD from matching our offensive output in 2010 and one rushing and five passing TD's from matching 2011. we also had plenty of TO's created by the D over the last two years, they just weren't scoring on as many of them. You'd need to spend a lot of time to find out the resulting field position etc., but when the D scores that takes away opportunities and field position from the O. Nothing wrong with that from a team perspective but something to consider if you're comparing offensive output across years. Edited December 10, 2012 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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