2012-2013 NFL Thread

[Kyyle23]

I think Cutler's accuracy was phenomenal this year. The unfortunate part is the bears did not run plays designed to get people open. There was no thought process that "oh if we drag this receiver here, this should open it up underneath", etc.

 

Jay was completing passes to ridiculously covered receivers over and over again. The one player usually wide open was Davis, who would drop the ball.

 

 

blood pressure.......rising...............

[iamshack]

blood pressure.......rising...............

I'm convinced he was merely trying to dribble the ball...

[balfanman]

I think Cutler's accuracy was phenomenal this year. The unfortunate part is the bears did not run plays designed to get people open. There was no thought process that "oh if we drag this receiver here, this should open it up underneath", etc.

 

Jay was completing passes to ridiculously covered receivers over and over again. The one player usually wide open was Davis, who would drop the ball.

 

That's good to hear. I mostly listen to the Bear games on radio where it seemed like Joniak and Thayar were constantly saying that the balls were poorly thrown.

[Soxbadger]

The answer simply is yes. Lovie has been with this team for 9 years. Emery has been there with one. KC actually has quite a bit of talent especially on the defensive side, as did Atlanta. He was also a scout on the bears prior to 2004, and which were the bears best drafts.

 

But instead you want to give the most important position on a football team to a guy who has never scouted or has any idea how to deal with contracts and budgeting. Great idea.

 

In Atlanta Emery was scout from 2004-2008, 2008 is when they drafted Ryan. Dimitroff was the GM, Emery was gone that year. He (Emery) is credited for Roddy White.

 

Lets talk facts,

 

Falcons:

 

2004- 11-6, 2005- 8-8, 2006- 7-9, 2007- 4-12, 2008- 11-5

 

Chiefs:

 

2008- 2-14, 2009- 4-12, 2010- 10-6, 2011- 7-9, 2012- 2-14

 

 

Those were some great teams.

 

The part I bolded is just nonsense. I never suggested that Lovie should negotiate contracts, I would not suggest Emery should negotiate contracts. Neither of them are qualified. Emery has been a GM for 1 year, prior to that he was a scout. He is not an attorney, he is not an executive. Maybe his 16 years of strength and conditioning coach made him qualified, but you are not making a very strong argument.

 

The coach, the person who is actually going to use the players, should have a good amount of say in what players are being brought to the team. It makes no sense to have a coach and GM who are not on the same page. Which is why you need to 1) have a GM who is Caesar or 2) have a coach who is Caesar. I do not think Emery has the experience or the pedigree to be a Caesar GM, which means you need to find a coach to be 1.

 

Since the Bears were already paying Lovie, and could always get another guy like Emery, the Bears should have tried something this year, because it made no sense to hire a GM, tell him he cant fire the coach for 1 year. That is just stupid.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Soxbadger

[SOXOBAMA]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Arizona and Chicago have asked for and received permission to interview Broncos OC Mike McCoy for their HC job. Will interview this weekend.

[bmags]

Isn't it funny how scouts usually end up being GMs and not coaches? And when coaches do it becomes a miserable failure? There's a reason why GMs coming in usually get to hire their own coach. They hire a guy with a similar style, because those are the players and schemes they think will win games. That's where a coach GM relationship works.

 

acutally I don't even know why i'm arguing this. Show me the situations where giving a coach more power over personnel has worked. It was the downfall of many great coaches.

[daa84]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

Arizona and Chicago have asked for and received permission to interview Broncos OC Mike McCoy for their HC job. Will interview this weekend.

probably a hire the bears wouldn't be able to make until the broncos are eliminated, which could be after the super bowl

[SOXOBAMA]

Matt Maiocco ‏@MaioccoCSN

49ers will release Brandon Jacobs later today. 49ers will bring in kickers for tryouts.

 

Thank god. Akers cost us the #1 seed.

[Dick Allen]

Isn't it funny how scouts usually end up being GMs and not coaches? And when coaches do it becomes a miserable failure? There's a reason why GMs coming in usually get to hire their own coach. They hire a guy with a similar style, because those are the players and schemes they think will win games. That's where a coach GM relationship works.

 

acutally I don't even know why i'm arguing this. Show me the situations where giving a coach more power over personnel has worked. It was the downfall of many great coaches.

Parcells, maybe Vermeil, but it usually doesn't work. I think Emery started out as a strength coach.

[Soxbadger]

Isn't it funny how scouts usually end up being GMs and not coaches? And when coaches do it becomes a miserable failure? There's a reason why GMs coming in usually get to hire their own coach. They hire a guy with a similar style, because those are the players and schemes they think will win games. That's where a coach GM relationship works.

 

acutally I don't even know why i'm arguing this. Show me the situations where giving a coach more power over personnel has worked. It was the downfall of many great coaches.

 

Bill Belichek

 

Jimmy Johnson

 

Bill Walsh

 

I guess I could just go through the list of Super Bowl dynasties and list those coaches.

[Kyyle23]

Parcells, maybe Vermeil, but it usually doesn't work. I think Emery started out as a strength coach.

 

The more the league changed, the less it worked for Parcells. Does Belichek still hold some GM duties or did he back off of that?

 

It got Shanahan fired in Denver.

[witesoxfan]

Holmgren was always a fantastic coach and terrible executive.

[Soxbadger]

Holmgren was always a fantastic coach and terrible executive.

 

I dont think 1 guy can do both jobs effectively, but when it comes to drafting, the coach really should have the final say. If you cant trust the coach to pick the right guys, how can you trust him to play the right guys etc? It just makes no sense.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I dont think 1 guy can do both jobs effectively, but when it comes to drafting, the coach really should have the final say. If you cant trust the coach to pick the right guys, how can you trust him to play the right guys etc? It just makes no sense.

 

Then the league hasnt made any sense for quite a long time

[Soxbadger]

Then the league hasnt made any sense for quite a long time

 

Well the premise of my argument was can anyone name a longer tenured coach than Lovie Smith who had less ability to make personnel decisions.

 

I think that the Emery/Smith situation was an aberration. Generally the GM hires the Coach, so the GM and Coach are on the same page from day 1. In this case you had a GM who was hired with a coach in place and told he cant fire the coach for 1 year.

 

Thus if Emery didnt like Smith, he had every reason to screw Lovie so he could get rid of him. If Lovie makes the playoffs can they fire him? I doubt it. And since Emery seems to have wanted to fire Lovie, I cant help but wonder if last years draft wasnt a set up. Emery drafted guys that werent even healthy, how does that help a team that wants to win a Division Title?

[cabiness42]

Alex Marvez ‏@alexmarvez

#Falcons special teams coach Keith Armstrong set for head coaching interviews with Kansas City & Chicago, a source tells @FOXSports.com

 

He was secondary coach at ND for a year or two while I was there.

[Dick Allen]

Well the premise of my argument was can anyone name a longer tenured coach than Lovie Smith who had less ability to make personnel decisions.

 

I think that the Emery/Smith situation was an aberration. Generally the GM hires the Coach, so the GM and Coach are on the same page from day 1. In this case you had a GM who was hired with a coach in place and told he cant fire the coach for 1 year.

 

Thus if Emery didnt like Smith, he had every reason to screw Lovie so he could get rid of him. If Lovie makes the playoffs can they fire him? I doubt it. And since Emery seems to have wanted to fire Lovie, I cant help but wonder if last years draft wasnt a set up. Emery drafted guys that werent even healthy, how does that help a team that wants to win a Division Title?

I don't think there is any chance that it was a set up, but it can at least have that appearance, especially if the reports today that Lovie needed a deep playoff run to keep his job are correct.

[southsideirish71]

Well the premise of my argument was can anyone name a longer tenured coach than Lovie Smith who had less ability to make personnel decisions.

 

I think that the Emery/Smith situation was an aberration. Generally the GM hires the Coach, so the GM and Coach are on the same page from day 1. In this case you had a GM who was hired with a coach in place and told he cant fire the coach for 1 year.

 

Thus if Emery didnt like Smith, he had every reason to screw Lovie so he could get rid of him. If Lovie makes the playoffs can they fire him? I doubt it. And since Emery seems to have wanted to fire Lovie, I cant help but wonder if last years draft wasnt a set up. Emery drafted guys that werent even healthy, how does that help a team that wants to win a Division Title?

 

 

 

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I think they should have kept Lovie Smith and let him go into the final year of his deal with the end of his contract hanging over his head. The right thing to do would have been to hold a press conference, call Jerry Angelo and put him on speaker, and fire him again.

[Kyyle23]

Well the premise of my argument was can anyone name a longer tenured coach than Lovie Smith who had less ability to make personnel decisions.

I think that the Emery/Smith situation was an aberration. Generally the GM hires the Coach, so the GM and Coach are on the same page from day 1. In this case you had a GM who was hired with a coach in place and told he cant fire the coach for 1 year.

 

Thus if Emery didnt like Smith, he had every reason to screw Lovie so he could get rid of him. If Lovie makes the playoffs can they fire him? I doubt it. And since Emery seems to have wanted to fire Lovie, I cant help but wonder if last years draft wasnt a set up. Emery drafted guys that werent even healthy, how does that help a team that wants to win a Division Title?

 

How do you know what decisions were and were not made with lovies input during the Angelo era?

[Soxbadger]

How do you know what decisions were and were not made with lovies input during the Angelo era?

 

I dont know, which is why I am asking. It seems that Lovie has had very little say in personnel, I could be wrong obviously.

 

And to be clear I dont think Emery purposefully set up Lovie, but I also dont think he went out of his way to make sure the Bears had the best chance at winning this year. There is no way you can convince me that McClellin (1st round) and Hardin (3rd Round) were the best choices for the Bears to win this year, especially when the Bears did nothing for the OL.

 

 

[southsideirish71]

I dont know, which is why I am asking. It seems that Lovie has had very little say in personnel, I could be wrong obviously.

 

And to be clear I dont think Emery purposefully set up Lovie, but I also dont think he went out of his way to make sure the Bears had the best chance at winning this year. There is no way you can convince me that McClellin (1st round) and Hardin (3rd Round) were the best choices for the Bears to win this year, especially when the Bears did nothing for the OL.

 

Well if Emery decides to move from a 4-3 to a 3-4 does getting McClellin make more sense. I would of rather had an OL, but that was the thought behind McClellin is he would fit more in a 3-4. In the short term he would be used like the typical 3rd down rusher that Lovie has used before.

 

Edited December 31, 2012 by southsideirish71

[Soxbadger]

Well if Emery decides to move from a 4-3 to a 3-4 does getting McClellin make more sense. I would of rather had an OL, but that was the thought behind McClellin is he would fit more in a 3-4. In the short term he would be used like the typical 3rd down rusher that Lovie has used before.

 

Of course if the Bears move to a 3-4 he makes more sense.

 

But the only way the Bears were moving to a 3-4 was if Lovie was gone, and that meant the Bears would have to fail this year. The point is that most felt the Bears had a chance to contend for the NFC Division (turned out to be true) most thought the Bears needed help at OL, TE and WR.

 

Imagine what could have been with 1 solid OL and 1 solid TE.

 

The worst part is, I dont even really like Lovie. I just am really concerned about who the next coach will be.

[Kyyle23]

I dont know, which is why I am asking. It seems that Lovie has had very little say in personnel, I could be wrong obviously.

 

And to be clear I dont think Emery purposefully set up Lovie, but I also dont think he went out of his way to make sure the Bears had the best chance at winning this year. There is no way you can convince me that McClellin (1st round) and Hardin (3rd Round) were the best choices for the Bears to win this year, especially when the Bears did nothing for the OL.

 

And thats the thing, you are creating this argument for giving Lovie more power in personnel decisions and assuming he had none to begin with, when that could be completetely wrong. What if Lovie and Tice told Emery they were confident that this offensive line would take the next step because of what they saw in that 6 game stretch before Cutler broke his thumb last year?

 

IIRC players like Danielle Manning and Al Afalava were chosen by Angelo because Lovie wanted them badly.

 

Either way, You dont hire a GM and immediately give all personnel power to the incumbent head coach. Maybe Emery kept him for this season because he wanted to see if Lovie could get this team deep in the playoffs, and then would keep him and offer him an extension.

 

You just never know.

[Soxbadger]

Kyle,

 

Its a ton of speculation, I have no inside information. With Angelo I would think Lovie had more say. I am more focused on this year and Emery, because this year is the year Lovie was fired and its been theorized that had Lovie done better, he may not have been fired.

 

That is why I am only referring to this years draft and the oddity of the picks.

 

Either way, You dont hire a GM and immediately give all personnel power to the incumbent head coach. Maybe Emery kept him for this season because he wanted to see if Lovie could get this team deep in the playoffs, and then would keep him and offer him an extension.

 

The one thing we do know is that when Emery was hired he was explicitly told he could not fire Lovie for 1 season.

 

The real point is, you dont hire a GM and tell them who their head coach is going to be. The Jets are about to find out why this is a bad idea as well. If you are hiring a GM to be the man, he needs to be able to make all decisions from day one. Otherwise you get this nonsense, where 2 years are potentially lost. Especially if the Bears defensive system dramatically changes.

 

(edit)

 

Maybe this will be clearer. It makes no sense to say Lovie is going to be fired unless he makes a deep playoff run and then not give him the necessary tools to actually try and make that run. I could be way off here, but I just do not see McClellin as a Lovie player.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Soxbadger