2012-2013 NFL Thread

[Soxfest]

Sad to hear about Seau!

[Quin]

Damn.

[LittleHurt05]

Interesting to note that Seau shot himself in the chest, not in the head, just like Dave Duerson

[Kyyle23]

Interesting to note that Seau shot himself in the chest, not in the head, just like Dave Duerson

 

didnt Duerson do that deliberately so that his brain could be examined? I thought I read that somewhere

[LittleHurt05]

didnt Duerson do that deliberately so that his brain could be examined? I thought I read that somewhere

 

Exactly, that's why I mentioned it. We have no idea if that's what Seau was thinking, but it's possible. I would think a shot to the head is more common.

[That funky motion]

Watching Junior's mom talk made me want to cry.

[Quin]

Interesting to note that Seau shot himself in the chest, not in the head, just like Dave Duerson

 

s*** needs to get done ASAP about head injuries in football.

[Steve9347]

s*** needs to get done ASAP about head injuries in football.

I really think that this whole concern about head injuries in terms of causing these guys to be depressed and off themselves is a bunch of bulls***. You see this everywhere with people who fall from fame - they don't know how to deal with it.

 

You see child stars, actors and actresses, musicians, it happens in all walks of "celebrity", and that's really what I think should be to blame. To hell with any brain damage causing these guys to lose their s***.

[flippedoutpunk]

I really think that this whole concern about head injuries in terms of causing these guys to be depressed and off themselves is a bunch of bulls***. You see this everywhere with people who fall from fame - they don't know how to deal with it.

 

You see child stars, actors and actresses, musicians, it happens in all walks of "celebrity", and that's really what I think should be to blame. To hell with any brain damage causing these guys to lose their s***.

 

[Balta1701]

I really think that this whole concern about head injuries in terms of causing these guys to be depressed and off themselves is a bunch of bulls***. You see this everywhere with people who fall from fame - they don't know how to deal with it.

 

You see child stars, actors and actresses, musicians, it happens in all walks of "celebrity", and that's really what I think should be to blame. To hell with any brain damage causing these guys to lose their s***.

How on Earth can you possibly say that when we have the damaged brains actually sitting there in medical facilities after having been examined?

[GoSox05]

I really think that this whole concern about head injuries in terms of causing these guys to be depressed and off themselves is a bunch of bulls***. You see this everywhere with people who fall from fame - they don't know how to deal with it.

 

You see child stars, actors and actresses, musicians, it happens in all walks of "celebrity", and that's really what I think should be to blame. To hell with any brain damage causing these guys to lose their s***.

 

 

So do you think CTE is just made up?

 

 

 

[Steve9347]

How on Earth can you possibly say that when we have the damaged brains actually sitting there in medical facilities after having been examined?

I'm saying CTE certainly cannot be the sole issue to blame here.

[Soxbadger]

Yes there is no evidence that concussions cause depression.

 

Oh wait:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/31/sports/f...amp;oref=slogin

 

That article is from 2007:

 

The study, which will appear in the journal of the American College of Sports Medicine, found that of the 595 players who recalled sustaining three or more concussions on the football field, 20.2 percent said they had been found to have depression.That is three times the rate of players who have not sustained concussions. The full data, the study reports, “call into question how effectively retired professional football players with a history of three or more concussions are able to meet the mental and physical demands of life after playing professional football.”

 

Now Steve's theory is that NFL players just are more depressed because they fall from grace, but Steve has not done any testing. In comparison the University of North Carolina has done testing and found that NFL players who suffered 3 or more concussions were 3x more likely to be depressed than other NFL players.

 

So how can Steve's theory be correct?

 

Wouldnt concussions have no correlation on the rate of depression if it was simply that ex-NFL players are all more likely to be depressed? Wouldnt the actual facts show that there was no correlation between concussions and depression?

 

Im not a scientist or a Dr, but Im going to defer to them, instead of Steve's anecdotal evidence.

 

In case you dont trust the ACC, Michigan did a study that shows on average NFL players suffer depression at the same rate as the general populace, once again suggesting that it is concussions that are increasing the depression rate amongst NFL players, not their fall from the spotlight.

 

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011...nce-living-hell

 

A recent study by the University of Michigan showed retired players suffer depression at roughly the same rate as the general population.

 

 

 

[Steve9347]

Yes there is no evidence that concussions cause depression.

There is no evidence that it is solely to blame for these guys offing themselves and/or being depressed.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/sports/f...of-it.html?_r=1

 

Having retired way before my time, I have started to lose focus and drive. I’m retired from the game I loved. I’m retired from the perks, like getting a table instantly at my favorite restaurant. And I’m retired from the N.F.L. brotherhood. Passed by. At times, I feel ostracized.

 

The N.F.L. isn’t a street gang. We’re mercenaries willing to work for the highest bidder and willing to get along with whomever we need to in order to keep working. I know why I haven’t heard from any of my former teammates. But it’s not as if I’m looking for them, either. What would we talk about? What do we have in common now? Not much. Once you’re out of the circle, you’re out. So besides my family and a couple of my high school buddies, I don’t have many friends.

 

But yes, tell me more about your definitive proof that concussions are solely causing these issues in football players, while they are nowhere to be found in other celebrity circles. These guys spend 30 years getting their dicks sucked constantly, and then *poof* no one cares.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Steve9347

[Balta1701]

You realize that you just responded to a pair of statistically significant studies saying that there is a huge increase in the rate of depression directly associated with concussions with one anecdote saying "no there isn't", right?

[Steve9347]

You realize that you just responded to a pair of statistically significant studies saying that there is a huge increase in the rate of depression directly associated with concussions with one anecdote saying "no there isn't", right?

I realize that everything is not black and white. How about you?

[Balta1701]

I realize that everything is not black and white. How about you?

Let's ask this another way.

 

I cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this specific person only committed suicide because of brain injuries.

 

However, we have basically conclusive evidence that these brain injuries are directly related to concussions, that they are directly related to depression, and that they are directly related to suicide.

 

Under what reasonable standard could anyone's response to yet another incident in a person who played that game be "it's just an excuse", with that statement basically used to justify continuing failure to respond proactively to this brain damage?

[flippedoutpunk]

The study, which will appear in the journal of the American College of Sports Medicine, found that of the 595 players who recalled sustaining three or more concussions on the football field, 20.2 percent said they had been found to have depression.That is three times the rate of players who have not sustained concussions.

 

definitive studies = polling 595 players that have had 3 or more concussions and having only 20.2 percent of them say yes they suffer from depression. SCIENCE!

[Balta1701]

definitive studies = polling 595 players that have had 3 or more concussions and having only 20.2 percent of them say yes they suffer from depression. SCIENCE!

The difference between:

 

40 out of 600

 

and

 

120 out of 600

 

Is a huge difference.

[Soxbadger]

Who said everything is black and white?

 

Show me 1 person in this thread who said that "concussions are solely responsible for depression."

 

Otherwise you are basically just saying something everyone knows:

 

"You cant conclusively say anything because humans are unique and therefore each human has a million variables and thus its impossible to say what exactly caused the depression."

 

Thanks for that tip, Im pretty sure I learned the scientific method and isolation of variables in grade school.

 

here is your comment:

 

I really think that this whole concern about head injuries in terms of causing these guys to be depressed and off themselves is a bunch of bulls***.

 

You said it was bulls***, the rest of us are responding that legitimate scientists have done legitimate research that indicates that there may be a correlation.

 

See the difference, I say "there may be a correlation" you say "its bulls*** because I have anecdotal evidence".

 

Terrible terrible reasoning.

 

[flippedoutpunk]

The difference between:

 

40 out of 600

 

and

 

120 out of 600

 

Is a huge difference.

 

ok but don't say that this is CONCLUSIVE evidence that concussions = depression.. if the article says 100 percent or heck even 90 percent of people with 3 or more concussions have depression, then yes that is damn conclusive evidence. otherwise all you can say is that there is a chance that you will suffer from depression. A less than 50 percent chance even, which seems to be a magic number when it comes to a convincing poll.

[Steve9347]

Under what reasonable standard could anyone's response to yet another incident in a person who played that game be "it's just an excuse", with that statement basically used to justify continuing failure to respond proactively to this brain damage?

There have been nearly 30,000 players in the NFL, and 6 total cases of CTE have been diagnosed. Now, obviously, many of these guys are still living, and many did not have their heads examined post-mortem, but I would imagine a lot of conclusions are being drawn about a disturbed man who killed himself.

[Harry Chappas]

You realize that you just responded to a pair of statistically significant studies saying that there is a huge increase in the rate of depression directly associated with concussions with one anecdote saying "no there isn't", right?

 

The U of M study noted above seems to indicate that football players suffer the same rate of depression as normal populace. Am I reading that wrong?

 

Regardless of the outcome I think it is really safe to assume that football players are gambling on their health and livelihood and are doing so by choice.

 

It could be the concussions or massive amounts of other crap along with crashing into other large individuals and steroids that is causing this.

 

 

[Steve9347]

In case you dont trust the ACC, Michigan did a study that shows on average NFL players suffer depression at the same rate as the general populace, once again suggesting that it is concussions that are increasing the depression rate amongst NFL players, not their fall from the spotlight.

But shouldn't that rate be higher given the fact that NFL players suffer concussions at a much higher rate than the general populace? Conclusions are being drawn.

[Balta1701]

The U of M study noted above seems to indicate that football players suffer the same rate of depression as normal populace. Am I reading that wrong?

 

Regardless of the outcome I think it is really safe to assume that football players are gambling on their health and livelihood and are doing so by choice.

 

It could be the concussions or massive amounts of other crap along with crashing into other large individuals and steroids that is causing this.

Football players who suffer fewer than 3 concussions suffer the same depression rate as the normal populace (arguing against Steve's point that it's all about NFL players leaving the sport).

 

But, if they've had multiple concussions, the depression rate skyrockets. In the case of 3 or more concussions, the depression rate triples.