Steve9347 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 11, 2012 -> 07:00 AM) The rules that moved the kickoffs up to the 35 pretty much destroyed Hester's value. Apparently punt returns no longer exist. He returned 3 kicks for touchdowns last year, 2 on punts, 1 on the kickoff. For the last five years, the Bears have ranked among the top three teams in average starting field position, averaging better than the 33. Hester has returned 333 kicks and scored 17 touchdowns (12 on punts, 5 on returns). So, based on a nine-year sample, there is better than a 1-in-20 chance Hester will take a kick to the house. Yup, no value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 11, 2012 -> 07:00 AM) The rules that moved the kickoffs up to the 35 pretty much destroyed Hester's value. Not really. Hester's value is in punt returns. He wasn't the best kickoff returner, it doesn't suit his style as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Apparently punt returns no longer exist. He returned 3 kicks for touchdowns last year, 2 on punts, 1 on the kickoff. For the last five years, the Bears have ranked among the top three teams in average starting field position, averaging better than the 33. Hester has returned 333 kicks and scored 17 touchdowns (12 on punts, 5 on returns). So, based on a nine-year sample, there is better than a 1-in-20 chance Hester will take a kick to the house. Yup, no value. A lot of that average starting field position came when kickoffs were on the 30, meaning that Hester either got the ball and got a good return, or they squib kicked it and got good field position anyway. Since last year, pretty much all drives after kickoffs start on the 20 for all teams. Yes, Hester is more likely to return a punt than a kickoff for a TD, but his overall impact on field position was greater on kickoffs. Also, some teams are getting better at directional punting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 11, 2012 -> 08:40 AM) A lot of that average starting field position came when kickoffs were on the 30, meaning that Hester either got the ball and got a good return, or they squib kicked it and got good field position anyway. Since last year, pretty much all drives after kickoffs start on the 20 for all teams. Yes, Hester is more likely to return a punt than a kickoff for a TD, but his overall impact on field position was greater on kickoffs. Also, some teams are getting better at directional punting. Devin Hester had three returns for touchdown last year alone. His value hasn't been stunted much, if at all. Also, I like how you throw out "some teams are getting better at directional punting". Right. Great stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 11, 2012 -> 09:42 AM) Devin Hester had three returns for touchdown last year alone. His value hasn't been stunted much, if at all. Also, I like how you throw out "some teams are getting better at directional punting". Right. Great stat. And to add, he was ineffective for about 1/3 or more of the season because of an injury (was it a hamstring?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Haven't they decided to move kickoffs back to the 30 anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Also, I like how you throw out "some teams are getting better at directional punting". Right. Great stat. OK, since you're too f***ing lazy to look it up yourself: Bears punt returns: 2009: 39 returns, 7 fair catches 2010: 33 returns, 10 fair catches 2011: 30 returns, 16 fair catches Is that enough stat for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I'm pretty sure they are staying. The move to the 35 was to cut down on the amount of concussions. Moving kickoffs helped reduce player concussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jul 11, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) OK, since you're too f***ing lazy to look it up yourself: Bears punt returns: 2009: 39 returns, 7 fair catches 2010: 33 returns, 10 fair catches 2011: 30 returns, 16 fair catches Is that enough stat for you? How much of that is kicking the ball shorter so that they don't outkick their punt coverage, which gives Hester and the blockers more time to set for a return? And beyond that, if they only had 14 real returns, and Hester returned 2 of those 14 for touchdowns, I'd say his value has been fine. Two stat to look at, if anyone can find them, are net punt average against the Bears and average starting position after a punt. You could also look at touchbacks against on punts and even gross punting average against the Bears. Those will begin to paint a better picture as opposed to returns vs fair catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Two stat to look at, if anyone can find them, are net punt average against the Bears and average starting position after a punt. You could also look at touchbacks against on punts and even gross punting average against the Bears. Those will begin to paint a better picture as opposed to returns vs fair catch. I'm not aware of anyplace that has stats like that. I stand by my assertion that Hester is getting his hands on the ball less for punt and kickoff returns due to more touchbacks and better punting. I'm not saying the Bears should get rid of him, but that his impact has lessened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 NFL has the top 12. Halftime: The 50 Most-Viewed Sporting Events of 2012 (So Far) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 09:54 AM) NFL has the top 12. Halftime: The 50 Most-Viewed Sporting Events of 2012 (So Far) I could almost guarantee that the end of an NCAA playoff (not a 4 team one, either) would get significantly higher ratings instead of an arbitrarily chosen conference matchup. Not Super Bowl ratings, but perhaps top 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Per Jason LaConfora on CBSSports.com "League sources said there has been considerable progress between the Bears and Matt Forte as well. There are still issues to hash out regarding the average per year on the deal over the first three years, and how it could compare to say Marshawn Lynch's new deal, but there has been movement on what the deal might look like over five years. While this prognosis looks promising, sources said there is still a stalemate between Baltimore and its star runner, Ray Rice. It would take a major reversal over the weekend to get this kick-started." http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/195...might-get-deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 That's great to hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Wow. I would love to get Forte to a fair deal (for both sides). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) Per Jason LaConfora on CBSSports.com "League sources said there has been considerable progress between the Bears and Matt Forte as well. There are still issues to hash out regarding the average per year on the deal over the first three years, and how it could compare to say Marshawn Lynch's new deal, but there has been movement on what the deal might look like over five years. While this prognosis looks promising, sources said there is still a stalemate between Baltimore and its star runner, Ray Rice. It would take a major reversal over the weekend to get this kick-started." http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/195...might-get-deals They said that a couple of weeks ago too, and then everything got quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Brees agrees to a contract. 100M/5yrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) That ***** paid he make a pretty penny Edited July 13, 2012 by RZZZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 12:44 PM) Brees agrees to a contract. 100M/5yrs NFL-record $60 million guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If anyone's worth it, Drew Brees is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 12:44 PM) Brees agrees to a contract. 100M/5yrs @adbrandt Looks like Brees has a staggering $40M in 2012. Saints have 3-day window to get out in February, otherwise $15M more gteed in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 02:15 PM) @adbrandt Looks like Brees has a staggering $40M in 2012. Saints have 3-day window to get out in February, otherwise $15M more gteed in 2013. How can they possibly have that much room available? Abraham's suspension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 01:17 PM) How can they possibly have that much room available? Abraham's suspension? Aren't there "bonuses" you can include that circumvent the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 01:17 PM) How can they possibly have that much room available? Abraham's suspension? @SalaryCap101 For those wondering, 2012 "cash" does NOT = 2012 "cap," as signing bonuses and/or guar future yr salaries are considered in that "cash" amt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 01:17 PM) How can they possibly have that much room available? Abraham's suspension? the dollars pay out over the average of the contract, or $20 million a year, for cap purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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