2012-2013 NFL Thread

[Soxbadger]

I don't really care, at all, about college. Delhomme was a backup in Nola that showed occasional brilliance. Hasselback was Favre's backup, that Holmgren traded for. Nobody cares about college. BUt there is precedent for handing a former NFL backup a starting job based off limited action.

 

You dont care about college, great. Im not going to bother arguing because you just dont want to talk about actual facts. I understand those guys didnt play much in the NFL, that isnt the point. The point is that there was a lot more in game footage of these guys showing what they could actually do. With Matt Flynn you are limited to 1 season at LSU, where he didnt even play the final game.

 

/shrugs

 

[Soxbadger]

Matt Cassel. 0 college games started

 

Yeah blanked on him.

 

There are exceptions, but I wouldnt have handed Cassel a starting job. He would have had to earn it.

 

That is really all Im arguing here, that Flynn has done nothing to be given a starting job. Im just not sure how there is evidence otherwise.

[Jake]

For some strange reason, all this talk about sample size as a backup compared to assuming a starting QB role makes me think of Caleb Haney.

 

Of course, Caleb Hanie only had a few nice SERIES. We've seen Matt Flynn put together some pretty stellar games.

[YASNY]

Of course, Caleb Hanie only had a few nice SERIES. We've seen Matt Flynn put together some pretty stellar games.

 

I have no dog in this fight. I just happened to think of Haney while reading it. I wasn't trying to make a point one way or the other.

[bmags]

Im saying you cant look at it in a vacuum and pretend that the NCAA games didnt occur.

 

You actually can do this.

[Soxbadger]

You actually can do this.

 

Sure, it makes no sense, but you can do it.

 

Just like you can say that the team who scores first wins.

 

You can do anything, but it doesnt make for good discussion.

[bmags]

There's no reason to use these college stats as opposed to actual NFL game film which they could evaluate him on. NFL teams have scouts for these very situations.

[Soxbadger]

There's no reason to use these college stats as opposed to actual NFL game film which they could evaluate him on. NFL teams have scouts for these very situations.

 

Right, Im going to give a player 3 years 26mil and I am only going to look at 3 NFL games before doing it.

 

That would be terrible due diligence. If I am a NFL team, I would look at every single piece of game film I could find, including High School or lower if possible. For Matt Flynn that is 16 games, or approximately 48 hours. If you cant put 48 hours into scouting your next NFL QB, you deserve to fail.

 

Its not about college stats, I dont understand why you cant grasp this.

 

Its about how many minutes of actual football Matt Flynn has played and what he has done in games that actually mattered.

 

I mean what is your argument even?

 

My argument is that Matt Flynn has not done enough to be handed a starting QB job and should have to earn it.

 

I guess you are arguing that Matt Flynn should be handed a starting job, based on 3 NFL games?

 

I really just dont know.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Kyyle23]

Right, Im going to give a player 3 years 26mil and I am only going to look at 3 NFL games before doing it.

 

That would be terrible due diligence. If I am a NFL team, I would look at every single piece of game film I could find, including High School or lower if possible. For Matt Flynn that is 16 games, or approximately 48 hours. If you cant put 48 hours into scouting your next NFL QB, you deserve to fail.

 

Its not about college stats, I dont understand why you cant grasp this.

 

Its about how many minutes of actual football Matt Flynn has played and what he has done in games that actually mattered.

 

I mean what is your argument even?

 

My argument is that Matt Flynn has not done enough to be handed a starting QB job and should have to earn it.

 

I guess you are arguing that Matt Flynn should be handed a starting job, based on 3 NFL games?

 

I really just dont know.

 

My argument right now is that Seattle did enough due diligence to hand him starter money, and he should start. You are acting as if they DIDNT look at any other piece of info available and just handed him the contract.

 

 

They obviously felt he was capable, Russell Wilson or not.

[DrunkBomber]

Matt Cassel. 0 college games started

I couldnt believe I was able to read this far into this discussion before someone brought up Cassel. Hes basically the perfect person to compare the situation to.

[ZoomSlowik]

I couldnt believe I was able to read this far into this discussion before someone brought up Cassel. Hes basically the perfect person to compare the situation to.

 

You guys are missing an even more obvious one: Cam Newton. ONE year of starting at Auburn and he's the #1 pick and an immediate starter. OMG, he can't play!

Edited August 22, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Soxbadger]

My argument right now is that Seattle did enough due diligence to hand him starter money, and he should start. You are acting as if they DIDNT look at any other piece of info available and just handed him the contract.

 

 

They obviously felt he was capable, Russell Wilson or not.

 

Thats not what I am saying at all.

 

Flynn is an unknown quantity.

 

Wilson is an unknown quantity.

 

In my opinion you give them both a chance in preseason and see what happens. It has nothing to do with Flynn before Wilson came into camp. If Wilson wasnt playing well, there would be no controversy. The controversy started because Wilson has been playing well and they want to see if its because hes playing against back ups, or if he can do well against starters.

[bmags]

3 years 19.5 million for a starting QB really isn't that expensive. While I'm sure the Seahawks wished they could have acquired a sure thing at QB with years of NFL starting experience that showed they would be great, those players aren't that easy to come by. But Flynn's 3 games for GB weren't meaningless, and he kicked ass. It doesn't mean he will be a guaranteed probowler, but it is a lot more info to go off of than projecting college play to the NFL. Russel Wilson might end up being really good, but even if he is, they'll just have a really cheap starting QB and a fairly expensive backup (similar to the titans). As far as planning, I think signing Flynn and hoping for the best with Wilson is better than just drafting wilson and hoping for the best.

 

But oh what a great irony it would be if wilson kicked ass for a few games as a backup and rode his way to Starting QB territory.

[Soxbadger]

I couldnt believe I was able to read this far into this discussion before someone brought up Cassel. Hes basically the perfect person to compare the situation to.

 

I mentioned Cassel yesterday and blanked on him today. Like I said there are exceptions.

 

 

You guys are missing an even more obvious one: Cam Newton. ONE year of starting at Auburn and he's the #1 pick and an imediate starter. OMG, he can't play!

 

Cam Newton started for a junior college, thats why he played more than 1 year.

 

http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_college_play...easonselect=459

 

So that is 2 years of starting.

[Soxbadger]

3 years 19.5 million for a starting QB really isn't that expensive. While I'm sure the Seahawks wished they could have acquired a sure thing at QB with years of NFL starting experience that showed they would be great, those players aren't that easy to come by. But Flynn's 3 games for GB weren't meaningless, and he kicked ass. It doesn't mean he will be a guaranteed probowler, but it is a lot more info to go off of than projecting college play to the NFL. Russel Wilson might end up being really good, but even if he is, they'll just have a really cheap starting QB and a fairly expensive backup (similar to the titans). As far as planning, I think signing Flynn and hoping for the best with Wilson is better than just drafting wilson and hoping for the best.

 

But oh what a great irony it would be if wilson kicked ass for a few games as a backup and rode his way to Starting QB territory.

 

Right because Flynn was brought in to compete for the starting job against Tavaris Jackson.

 

It just turns out he actually is competing against Wilson.

 

He didnt kick ass in all 3 games, he played bad in 1 of them.

 

You really are missing the point. Im just saying that the Seahawks should give them both a chance to win the job. For all I know Wilson will suck on Friday and Flynn easily gets the job.

 

They signed Flynn before the draft so the whole Wilson thing was far in the future. They had no way of knowing how the draft would go.

[ZoomSlowik]

I mentioned Cassel yesterday and blanked on him today. Like I said there are exceptions.

 

 

 

 

Cam Newton started for a junior college, thats why he played more than 1 year.

 

http://www.njcaa.org/colleges_college_play...easonselect=459

 

So that is 2 years of starting.

 

Haha, okay, so junior college is somehow a valid sample size for the NFL now. Can you even name where he went without looking? There are dozens upon dozens of other JuCo players that never even make an impact at the college level. Are we going to start looking at who started how many games at high school next?

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Haha, okay, so junior college is somehow a valid sample size for the NFL now. Can you even name where he went without looking? There are dozens upon dozens of other JuCo players that never even make an impact at the college level. Are we going to start looking at who started how many games at high school next?

 

Well the argument I made was about how many games they started in college or above before being given a starting job at the NFL level.

 

JUCO is college, just like EIU counts for Tony Romo.

 

/shrugs

 

I counted Delhomme's games as well.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

3 years 19.5 million for a starting QB really isn't that expensive. While I'm sure the Seahawks wished they could have acquired a sure thing at QB with years of NFL starting experience that showed they would be great, those players aren't that easy to come by. But Flynn's 3 games for GB weren't meaningless, and he kicked ass. It doesn't mean he will be a guaranteed probowler, but it is a lot more info to go off of than projecting college play to the NFL. Russel Wilson might end up being really good, but even if he is, they'll just have a really cheap starting QB and a fairly expensive backup (similar to the titans). As far as planning, I think signing Flynn and hoping for the best with Wilson is better than just drafting wilson and hoping for the best.

 

But oh what a great irony it would be if wilson kicked ass for a few games as a backup and rode his way to Starting QB territory.

 

 

He did get 10 million guaranteed which is pretty good, and the contract could reach 26 million if he meets incentives

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d827a...ar-26m-contract

[Soxbadger]

I read both 19.5mil and 26mil, so Im not sure which is right. I went with the higher one haha.

 

(edit)

 

Nm the 26mil is the highest possible, 19.5mil would be if he is a back up. Thats not terribly excessive for a back up.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Soxbadger

[ZoomSlowik]

Well the argument I made was about how many games they started in college or above before being given a starting job at the NFL level.

 

JUCO is college, just like EIU counts for Tony Romo.

 

/shrugs

 

I counted Delhomme's games as well.

 

Junior college is not college, they don't play against the same competition and the only reason anyone good ends up there is because they can't qualify at a real school. EIU and Louisiana Lafayette are at least FCS schools. If someone like LSU wants to schedule those other schools in the non-conference, they can. That's not the case with Blinn College.

Edited August 22, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Jake]

If we're counting JuCo, we need to pull out HS numbers. 4 year starter in HS > 2 year if this is the kind of argument we're going to have.

[Soxbadger]

Since I dont really care this is my final post on the subject.

 

There are a million things that go into rating a QB. You cant compare the career path of Cam Newton to Matt Flynn because Flynn was not a #1 draft pick, he was a 7th round pick. The reason why is because Matt Flynn wasnt that impressive in college. So now we are 7 years later and the guy has only played 3 games and it seems like people just want to hand him the job, I think that is folly.

 

When you mention Hasselbeck or Cassel, I think it also should be mentioned that Holmgrem had coached Hasselbeck so he knew him, and I believe Haley had been on the team with Cassel. To the best of my knowledge no one on the Seattle staff was with Flynn, so they dont really have that insight into him.

 

Bottom line, the only point I have been trying to make is that I dont think Flynn has done enough to be given a starting job. I think he needs to earn it, and part of that is giving the competition a chance to prove themselves. As I said before, Wilson could be terrible on Friday and its an easy call. But if Wilson does excellent and Flynn is bad, why wouldnt you give Wilson a shot?

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

Wilson is an interesting case because no one denies his talent. He is smart, he has a good arm and he is athletic. He put up ridiculous stats last year in a run based offense.

 

He is vertically challenged though.

 

If he was 6'2 people would have been considering him in the first easy.

 

Also Flynn was drafted in the 7th round. So its not like he was a cant miss prospect out of College, if anything Wilson was higher rated coming out of college.

 

 

Is it just me or does the fact that he was in a run based offense kinda "dilute" his numbers so to speak. Teams are gonna be lined up to stop the run right? That'll open up the pass game and allow the QB to put up some good numbers....Ala Kyle Orton a few years back with the Bears.....

 

I haven't seen much of Wilson sans maybe some highlights so I'm not saying he's a bad QB.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Since I dont really care this is my final post on the subject.

 

There are a million things that go into rating a QB. You cant compare the career path of Cam Newton to Matt Flynn because Flynn was not a #1 draft pick, he was a 7th round pick. The reason why is because Matt Flynn wasnt that impressive in college. So now we are 7 years later and the guy has only played 3 games and it seems like people just want to hand him the job, I think that is folly.

 

When you mention Hasselbeck or Cassel, I think it also should be mentioned that Holmgrem had coached Hasselbeck so he knew him, and I believe Haley had been on the team with Cassel. To the best of my knowledge no one on the Seattle staff was with Flynn, so they dont really have that insight into him.

 

Bottom line, the only point I have been trying to make is that I dont think Flynn has done enough to be given a starting job. I think he needs to earn it, and part of that is giving the competition a chance to prove themselves. As I said before, Wilson could be terrible on Friday and its an easy call. But if Wilson does excellent and Flynn is bad, why wouldnt you give Wilson a shot?

 

No, McDaniels was Cassels OC in New England. Haley never was with NE.

 

 

In fact, Cassel going to KC is part of the reason the Bears ended up with Cutler. McDaniels wanted Cassell badly, and tried to move Cutler so he could get Cassel. Cassel signed in KC and Cutler blew up in McDaniels face and he wanted out.

[Soxbadger]

No, McDaniels was Cassels OC in New England. Haley never was with NE.

 

 

In fact, Cassel going to KC is part of the reason the Bears ended up with Cutler. McDaniels wanted Cassell badly, and tried to move Cutler so he could get Cassel. Cassel signed in KC and Cutler blew up in McDaniels face and he wanted out.

 

It was Scott Pioli, I knew that someone from NE had gone to KC and sold them on Cassel.

 

Also, Cassel started all of 2008, so 16 games in the NFL trumps anything done in college. If Flynn started all last season, this wouldnt even be a discussion.