Balta1701 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (mumbles3k @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 03:58 AM) Is Peavy really considered to be the number 4 starter? Until he proves otherwise, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) Makes me want to puke. Seeing Mark take the field has been my favorite sign the season has begun. The smile, the quick throw and baseball was back for a new season. It's just not going to be the same. I think one of my favorite things to look forward to was him pitching on Opening Day. Not just because it was him, but because you had a chance to win and you knew you'd be out of there in under three hours. I miss him already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) The only thing on this team remotely decent is pitching and everyone is pitching too high a spot in the rotation (Danks should be a 2, Floyd a 3)...Sale has better than bottom end potential obviously, but this White Sox team is going to make us remember years like 1989. I think 90+ losses is a most likely scenario. In a best case situation they could MAYBE take a run at .500 with lights out years from the pitchers, but then again I could also see 100 losses here. The lineup is atrocious. It would take not just a 1 or 2 guys having career years, but 5 or 6 players for this team to come close to competing. Edited February 10, 2012 by kwolf68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 02:13 PM) The only thing on this team remotely decent is pitching and everyone is pitching too high a spot in the rotation (Danks should be a 2, Floyd a 3)...Sale has better than bottom end potential obviously, but this White Sox team is going to make us remember years like 1989. I think 90+ losses is a most likely scenario. In a best case situation they could MAYBE take a run at .500 with lights out years from the pitchers, but then again I could also see 100 losses here. The lineup is atrocious. It would take not just a 1 or 2 guys having career years, but 5 or 6 players for this team to come close to competing. Man, I get the pessimism given the recent dropoff, but I think 100 losses is a little off the deep end. If a good portion of our roster has career-average years, not career-best years, we're hovering around or just under .500, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 02:02 PM) Man, I get the pessimism given the recent dropoff, but I think 100 losses is a little off the deep end. If a good portion of our roster has career-average years, not career-best years, we're hovering around or just under .500, IMO. If Rios and Dunn repeat their years from last year, we've got a shot at 90 losses. If you just subtract Quentin, Buehrle, and Santos, the Sox lose more than 8 WAR compared to last year. For a 79 win team, losing 8 WAR puts them pretty close to 90 losses if people can't step up and replace those numbers. And at some point, you do have to factor in AJ and PK14 wearing down/stepping back too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 10, 2012 -> 03:19 PM) If Rios and Dunn repeat their years from last year, we've got a shot at 90 losses. If you just subtract Quentin, Buehrle, and Santos, the Sox lose more than 8 WAR compared to last year. For a 79 win team, losing 8 WAR puts them pretty close to 90 losses if people can't step up and replace those numbers. And at some point, you do have to factor in AJ and PK14 wearing down/stepping back too. I think our pitching staff is decent enough to keep us from 100 losses without much trouble. Yes, our hitting is going to be terrible but somehow I feel like it'll still be better than 2007, and we didn't lose 100 that year either...plus, our pitching that year was probably worse than it's likely to be this year. I don't feel like we have any holes in our roster quite as gaping as Jerry Owens/Andy Gonzalez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Gawd. 2007. I thought that year was bad. Until last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Morel should be better than last year, both offensive and defensively. Beckham can't get any worse offensively. Same with Rios and Dunn. Ramirez is likely to be at or better than what he did offensively in 2011. AJ should put up similar pedestrian numbers at catcher. The only players you don't expect to put up the same numbers are Konerko and DeAza. Viciedo has the potential to have a breakout year offensively, and SHOULD be healthier than Carlos, although he's had some injury problems as well over his 3 years with the Sox. Unless Floyd is traded, there are no obvious holes in the rotation. Bullpens are a crapshoot, but it's not like the cupboard is barren there. If Reed comes through, we'll be fine. One shouldn't be expecting 90 wins, but neither would I expect 90-100 losses, either. If nothing else, having a new manager and clubhouse environment with Ozzie Guillen gone should be good for 3-5 extra wins just on the face of it because of how dysfunctional things were last year. And Chris Sale could have a breakout/dominant 4 months of pitching, too. Nor should we discount one of our young guys like Molina or Castro having a huge impact in the 2nd half. Our system is due to produce another Hudson type situation where a starting pitcher rockets through our system. Edited February 11, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If Peavy is really considered a #4 starter, then he is probably a top 3 #4 starter in baseball, yet this guy has him #4 in the division. That's just stupid. You don't factor in health when you are comparing who is better than someone else. More valuable, sure, or trade value, or who you would want more, or pay more, but just based on skills alone, Peavy is still very good. And Asdrubal Cabrera better than Alexei? Maybe w/ the bat, but the defenses are worlds apart. Cabrera has like a 9.9 WAR in 5 season. Alexei has a 12.2 in 4 seasons. Cabrera's best season (last year), wasn't even as good as Alexei's 2011 or 2010. These rankings kind of suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Take it FWIW, but according to this guy on ESPN the Sox have the worst C, 3b, CF, RF, & DH in the division. #5 starter (Sale) is the only position that the Sox are best. Who knows with pitching - especially once you get past 3 spots. WAR-wise - Beckham is up there as he should be. C - I'd put Mauer @1, then Avila and who cares. 1B - No argument 2B - Beckham has to be #1 here 3B - Chisenhall should be last. Valencia moves to 3, Morel to 4. SS - No argument LF - Jesus - They're all s***. Ok. CF - YES YES YES RF - No. Josh, Viciedo, Francouer, Drunk-Choo. (This one looks way off to me) DH - Who cares; Dunn is last The pitching is a crap shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 12:56 AM) If Peavy is really considered a #4 starter, then he is probably a top 3 #4 starter in baseball, yet this guy has him #4 in the division. That's just stupid. You don't factor in health when you are comparing who is better than someone else. More valuable, sure, or trade value, or who you would want more, or pay more, but just based on skills alone, Peavy is still very good. And Asdrubal Cabrera better than Alexei? Maybe w/ the bat, but the defenses are worlds apart. Cabrera has like a 9.9 WAR in 5 season. Alexei has a 12.2 in 4 seasons. Cabrera's best season (last year), wasn't even as good as Alexei's 2011 or 2010. These rankings kind of suck. Um, yes you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) Um, yes you do. Well not in my book, or anyone I talk baseball with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Which means Avila really deserves to be ranked ahead of Mauer, and Morneau realistically should be last if Dunn is last. For that matter, Denard Span should be last too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) Well not in my book, or anyone I talk baseball with. You talk baseball in Kansas City? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 01:19 PM) Which means Avila really deserves to be ranked ahead of Mauer, and Morneau realistically should be last if Dunn is last. For that matter, Denard Span should be last too. Avila's only been in the bigs for a year though, so he doesn't exactly have a track record either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 But then with that argument, Dunn shouldn't be at the bottom due to one bad season after almost a decade of incredibly consistent results. I would bet on Dunn being comeback player of the year 100 times over Morneau. Not sure what they're going to get out of Mauer/Morneau/Span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) But then with that argument, Dunn shouldn't be at the bottom due to one bad season after almost a decade of incredibly consistent results. I would bet on Dunn being comeback player of the year 100 times over Morneau. Not sure what they're going to get out of Mauer/Morneau/Span. At least with Morneau, you know what went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 11:55 AM) Well not in my book, or anyone I talk baseball with. This is why Mark Prior and Kerry Wood are better than Mark Buehrle, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 04:11 PM) This is why Mark Prior and Kerry Wood are better than Mark Buehrle, right? Not anymore. Peavy, when he is healthy, is still pretty damn good, and better than anyone on our staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) Not anymore. Peavy, when he is healthy, is still pretty damn good, and better than anyone on our staff. Depends though...Jake Peavy might be a 90-91 mph fastball thrower now even when he is healthy. He may just no longer have the stuff he used to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) Not anymore. Peavy, when he is healthy, is still pretty damn good, and better than anyone on our staff. On top of what Balta already said, I believe these rankings are how they figure the season to play out. They are probably, like most people, expecting Peavy to break down yet again and be pretty worthless. When Johan Santana is healthy, he's the best pitcher in the game. He's just not healthy anymore, so he's not better than a lot of guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm betting we get more of the 92-96 MPH Peavy fastball than we've seen since we acquired him. He had flashes of it last year, so the mid 90's haven't disappeared, the stamina/endurance/arm strength just weren't there to sustain it at those levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 11, 2012 -> 07:21 PM) I'm betting we get more of the 92-96 MPH Peavy fastball than we've seen since we acquired him. He had flashes of it last year, so the mid 90's haven't disappeared, the stamina/endurance/arm strength just weren't there to sustain it at those levels. I've expected, and still do, that Peavy will have a good year in 2012. Mostly because he can sign a big deal after it, and this year won't matter to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Kind of like the 2nd half Albert Belle had with us....whatever year that was, 1998 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 09:13 PM) Makes me want to puke. Seeing Mark take the field has been my favorite sign the season has begun. The smile, the quick throw and baseball was back for a new season. It's just not going to be the same. It is truly sickening he's not on the Sox. I had to laugh at Rios and Dunn being ranked last and Peavy a No. 4 starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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