Sox sign Kosuke Fukudome

[Milkman delivers]

NO.

 

Play the **** kid. Don't hide them, don't tell them they should be scared of the pitcher, don't tell them that they can't make it, don't tell them that they're not good enough.

 

Sick to death of watching this team's manager convince every kid on the roster that they're not good enough and that there's nothing they can do because the guy behind him needs his at bats.

 

What word could this possibly be that you preemptively bleeped it out? Damn? That's hardly worth censoring

Edited February 18, 2012 by Milkman delivers

[Balta1701]

What word could this possibly be that you preemptively bleeped it out? Damn? That's hardly worth censoring

It sounds angrier when I bleep it than when I write it.

[Marty34]

But getting Rios off the books should be priority #1 for Williams.

 

Not that I think you can get rid of him under almost any circumstance, but I can foresee a situation where Rios is too important to the offense this year for Williams to deal. I expect a solid bounce back year for him.

[Chicago White Sox]

NO.

 

Play the **** kid. Don't hide them, don't tell them they should be scared of the pitcher, don't tell them that they can't make it, don't tell them that they're not good enough.

 

Sick to death of watching this team's manager convince every kid on the roster that they're not good enough and that there's nothing they can do because the guy behind him needs his at bats.

I'm sorry, but the team's goal to start the season should be to win. It's not going to take very long to see if we're in store for another 2011-type season from Dunn, Rios, Beckham, Morel, Peavy, etc. If things go downhill quickly, then obviously guys like Viciedo and Flowers should start everyday regardless of matchups. Until we know which way this team is heading, the primary goal is to try to win.

 

Fukudome should be an excellent #2 hitter against RHP for us. One way or the other, we'd be smart to get his bat in the lineup against RHP. That means Rios and/or Viciedo will have to sit sometimes. If you straight platoon Rios, you'll never be able to deal him. If you platoon Viciedo, you risk stunting his development. Clearly they both need to play against RHP and I think having play as equal amount makes the most sense to start the season. Let Robin play them based on matchups and hopefully their results actually improve.

 

There's nothing more I want than to see Viciedo out in RF everyday, but I actually believe this team has a chance of being competitive and I want to know for certain before I don't take advantage of a useful player like Fukudome.

[Balta1701]

I'm sorry, but the team's goal to start the season should be to win. It's not going to take very long to see if we're in store for another 2011-type season from Dunn, Rios, Beckham, Morel, Peavy, etc. If things go downhill quickly, then obviously guys like Viciedo and Flowers should start everyday regardless of matchups. Until we know which way this team is heading, the primary goal is to try to win.

 

Fukudome should be an excellent #2 hitter against RHP for us. One way or the other, we'd be smart to get his bat in the lineup against RHP. That means Rios and/or Viciedo will have to sit sometimes. If you straight platoon Rios, you'll never be able to deal him. If you platoon Viciedo, you risk stunting his development. Clearly they both need to play against RHP and I think having play as equal amount makes the most sense to start the season. Let Robin play them based on matchups and hopefully their results actually improve.

 

There's nothing more I want than to see Viciedo out in RF everyday, but I actually believe this team has a chance of being competitive and I want to know for certain before I don't take advantage of a useful player like Fukudome.

See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year.

 

If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid.

[Marty34]

See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year.

 

If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid.

 

You have them pegged at 90 losses, right?

[Balta1701]

You have them pegged at 90 losses, right?

Ill go with 78-84 actually. 90 seems a bit much unless people get hurt.

 

But I'm assuming dunn and rios disappoint, the young guys develop slowly, and the manager spends a while flailing.

 

A .900 ops from Viciedo could change a lot of that. A .765 ops from Fukudome doesn't.

[Marty34]

Ill go with 78-84 actually. 90 seems a bit much unless people get hurt.

 

But I'm assuming dunn and rios disappoint, the young guys develop slowly, and the manager spends a while flailing.

 

If Dunn and Rios disappoint AND the young guys develop slowly 78 wins is a stretch.

[Balta1701]

If Dunn and Rios disappoint AND the young guys develop slowly 78 wins is a stretch.

The starting pitching should carry them that far unless Danks gets hurt.

[Chicago White Sox]

See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year.

 

If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid.

I agree that Viciedo developing into a legitimate middle of the order bat would be more beneficial, but let's not forget that Viciedo turns 23 next month and has limited major league at-bats. As high as am on him, I realize he's going to have some struggles next year. Take a look at his numbers against RHP last season for us and tell me you honestly think he's ready to play every single day. If you play him against all lefties and every other right-handed starter (based on matchups), I think you can minimize his struggles and maximize his production. Also, I'm simply referring to start the season. If he proves he can hit RHP well, then keep giving him more and more at-bats until he basically plays everday. I don't think there's anything with being somewhat cautious with a young player and putting him in situations that will increase his chance of succeeding.

[Bubba Philips]

See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year.

 

If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid.

[/quote Fukodome is an early spring hitter while Rios doesn't have a time when he hits well. Fukodome hits righties well. We face mostly righties so let Fukodome play over Rios most of the time. I think if Rios rides the hard pine. He will become better at sitting. He might even make a friend or two.

[Marty34]

The starting pitching should carry them that far unless Danks gets hurt.

 

If you think Sale is one of the young guys who will develop slowly I don't think the SP is good enough by itself to carry them to 78 wins. His slow development would leave a large hole in that rotation. In my view he is the wildcard on next year's team. If he performs as is hoped, the rotation is solid and I think they will hit enough to compete in the central.

[max power]

I think Robin will let the situation guide his actions and he will do what is appropriate at the time.

Edited February 18, 2012 by MAX

[Balta1701]

If you think Sale is one of the young guys who will develop slowly I don't think the SP is good enough by itself to carry them to 78 wins. His slow development would leave a large hole in that rotation. In my view he is the wildcard on next year's team. If he performs as is hoped, the rotation is solid and I think they will hit enough to compete in the central.

I think Sale will give a really solid 100-120 innings and then be incredibly unreliable in the 2nd half when they try to push him to 150 innings. But that's still enough to push to the mid 70's in wins.

[Balta1701]

I think if Rios rides the hard pine. He will become better at sitting. He might even make a friend or two.

Honestly...if he's not performing, I don't think anyone's going to be really mad if Rios rides the pine.

 

I will be furious if a healthy Viciedo is regularly sitting because the manager insists on a platoon/insists the guy behind him needs his at bats. That's what happened to Morel last year, and it just stinks.

[Balta1701]

I agree that Viciedo developing into a legitimate middle of the order bat would be more beneficial, but let's not forget that Viciedo turns 23 next month and has limited major league at-bats. As high as am on him, I realize he's going to have some struggles next year. Take a look at his numbers against RHP last season for us and tell me you honestly think he's ready to play every single day. If you play him against all lefties and every other right-handed starter (based on matchups), I think you can minimize his struggles and maximize his production. Also, I'm simply referring to start the season. If he proves he can hit RHP well, then keep giving him more and more at-bats until he basically plays everday. I don't think there's anything with being somewhat cautious with a young player and putting him in situations that will increase his chance of succeeding.

If he's going to struggle...he's going to struggle. He's not going to stop struggling while sitting on the bench. Put him in there. Play him. What you just wrote is a path to 400-450 plate appearances. If he's healthy, he needs 600. If he's going to play 2 games out of every 3, just put him back in Charlotte.

[Chicago White Sox]

If he's going to struggle...he's going to struggle. He's not going to stop struggling while sitting on the bench. Put him in there. Play him. What you just wrote is a path to 400-450 plate appearances. If he's healthy, he needs 600. If he's going to play 2 games out of every 3, just put him back in Charlotte.

How is 450 at-bats considered being on the bench? Viciedo has shown he can crush LHP at the major league level, but he's got a sub .600 career OPS against RHP. I know that's based off a small sample size, but it shows he's going to need to make some adjustments. Let him play against all lefties and the righties he matches up well against, make the necessary adjustments, and build some success. If he proves himself, then he can continue to get more and more at-bats. If Viciedo, Fukudome, Rios, and De Aza are all playing well, then figuring out how to divide playing time is a good problem to have. I'm not too worried about that though, as at least one of them is likely to suck and that player's at-bats will likely be reduced.

[Balta1701]

How is 450 at-bats considered being on the bench? Viciedo has shown he can crush LHP at the major league level, but he's got a sub .600 career OPS against RHP. I know that's based off a small sample size, but it shows he's going to need to make some adjustments. Let him play against all lefties and the righties he matches up well against, make the necessary adjustments, and build some success. If he proves himself, then he can continue to get more and more at-bats. If Viciedo, Fukudome, Rios, and De Aza are all playing well, then figuring out how to divide playing time is a good problem to have. I'm not too worried about that though, as at least one of them is likely to suck and that player's at-bats will likely be reduced.

First, note that I said plate appearances not at bats.

 

Secondly, if he's getting 450 plate appearances...that's almost exactly what Brent Morel got last year (435). And Morel himself came out and said that being put on the bench so regularly screwed with his mind and wound up making him swing tentatively for the better part of the season. If Viciedo isn't hitting 9th, then that means he's on the bench more than Morel last year. That means he's getting benched about 1 out of every 4 games.

 

I'd rather have him sit at Charlotte for another year than play around with him like that. Not only have we already seen doing that hurt player develoment, but we're also wasting anotehr year of service time on him but having him spend 1/4 of the year on the bench.

 

If Viciedo, Fukudome, Rios, and De Aza are playing well, Fukudome will both be the weak link and will be the guy who we won't mind sending to the bench more. Play the guys we're stuck with. If all of them are playing well, then Fukudome will be putting up the same numbers as De Aza, except De Aza will be better defensively and on the basepaths.

 

If anyone not named Rios is playing poorly...then I'd rather either give him the time to develop (Dayan) or see if he can pull it together before we waste a roster spot on him the next year (De Aza).

[caulfield12]

First, note that I said plate appearances not at bats.

 

Secondly, if he's getting 450 plate appearances...that's almost exactly what Brent Morel got last year (435). And Morel himself came out and said that being put on the bench so regularly screwed with his mind and wound up making him swing tentatively for the better part of the season. If Viciedo isn't hitting 9th, then that means he's on the bench more than Morel last year. That means he's getting benched about 1 out of every 4 games.

 

I'd rather have him sit at Charlotte for another year than play around with him like that. Not only have we already seen doing that hurt player develoment, but we're also wasting anotehr year of service time on him but having him spend 1/4 of the year on the bench.

 

If Viciedo, Fukudome, Rios, and De Aza are playing well, Fukudome will both be the weak link and will be the guy who we won't mind sending to the bench more. Play the guys we're stuck with. If all of them are playing well, then Fukudome will be putting up the same numbers as De Aza, except De Aza will be better defensively and on the basepaths.

 

If anyone not named Rios is playing poorly...then I'd rather either give him the time to develop (Dayan) or see if he can pull it together before we waste a roster spot on him the next year (De Aza).

 

 

 

So if Dayan doesn't perform adequately, we're going to have to waste a roster spot on DeAza or Fukudome again as a back-up option to Viciedo? Not quite sure I understand your last sentence.

 

Or you mean you don't care as much about the playing time for DeAza/Fukudome/Lillibridge, that the the sole outfield development focus should on playing Viciedo everyday no matter what happens to see what we actually have in him going forward?

 

 

[Balta1701]

So if Dayan doesn't perform adequately, we're going to have to waste a roster spot on DeAza or Fukudome again as a back-up option to Viciedo? Not quite sure I understand your last sentence.

 

Or you mean you don't care as much about the playing time for DeAza/Fukudome/Lillibridge, that the the sole outfield development focus should on playing Viciedo everyday no matter what happens to see what we actually have in him going forward?

Last sentence translation:

 

If Viciedo struggles in the bigs, I'd rather have him get 600 PA's to have a chance to work through those struggles than sit on the bench. If you're going to put him on the bench for more than a few days, then send him to AAA and let him resume raking. There is no way that I'm going to be happy if he gets more "Rest" than others on the roster. If he's hitting .220, then either keep running him out there or send him to Charlotte. Do not make Fukudome a starter in his place, or even a platoon player.

 

If De Aza struggles in the bigs, I'd rather have him get 600 PA's to have a chance to work through those struggles, so that we can see if he's a legit option for 2013. He might turn it on after a couple months of struggling. Put him out there until we've seen enough to decide if he's a 2013 starter. If he goes to the bench for Fukudome, then that ought to be it for him.

 

If Rios struggles again, I don't care what happens to him. You can bench him for Fukudome and I promise not to be mad.

[caulfield12]

So essentially, you're going to give all of 2012 to:

 

Sale (until innings gets him)

Reed

Beckham

Morel

Viciedo

DeAza

Flowers (in the event of an AJ trade, mostly 2nd half)

 

Lillibridge perhaps becomes option 1A to play full-time for Rios...although we know Ozzie would undoubtedly go with Fukudome, a lot of Sox fans would be interested to see what happens with everyday play for Brent as well after 2011.

 

Nobody sees Escobar, Martinez or Kuhn as everyday big leaguers, there's little doubt about that.

 

This is the only plans that makes sense...it's the logical or reasonable thing to do, in our present circumstances.

 

The last one is debatable (Flowers), but we really need to identify a catcher for 2013 (if it's not Tyler) and acquire him for Floyd, Crain, Thornton, etc.

 

In the event a complete rebuild, you finally move Ramirez or Konerko.

Edited February 19, 2012 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

Last sentence translation:

 

If Viciedo struggles in the bigs, I'd rather have him get 600 PA's to have a chance to work through those struggles than sit on the bench. If you're going to put him on the bench for more than a few days, then send him to AAA and let him resume raking. There is no way that I'm going to be happy if he gets more "Rest" than others on the roster. If he's hitting .220, then either keep running him out there or send him to Charlotte. Do not make Fukudome a starter in his place, or even a platoon player.

 

If De Aza struggles in the bigs, I'd rather have him get 600 PA's to have a chance to work through those struggles, so that we can see if he's a legit option for 2013. He might turn it on after a couple months of struggling. Put him out there until we've seen enough to decide if he's a 2013 starter. If he goes to the bench for Fukudome, then that ought to be it for him.

 

If Rios struggles again, I don't care what happens to him. You can bench him for Fukudome and I promise not to be mad.

So you have no interest in trying to compete next year? Got it.

[YASNY]

So you have no interest in trying to compete next year? Got it.

 

Compete. Interesting word. What's compete mean, actually? I personally always considered a team that is satified to just compete an also-ran. No, the goal should be to win, and if you can't win this year set your team up to win next year. Attempting to just compete can set you up for years of being in the middle of the pack.

[Milkman delivers]

See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year.

 

If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid.

 

When did he say that? I don't doubt that he did, but I don't recall it.