You be the judge

[iamshack]

http://www.themonitor.com/articles/elsa-59...-suspended.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An 18-year-old and a 17-year-old having sex and what did the school district do? Called the police.

 

But they like the coach who was fired. So he has that going for him.

Umm, Tex...it happened ON THE BUS!

 

Liability concerns are just a bit different, don't you think?

[Texsox]

Umm, Tex...it happened ON THE BUS!

 

Liability concerns are just a bit different, don't you think?

 

 

And they were concerned about a minor child having sex with an adult.

[Balta1701]

And they were concerned about a minor child having sex with an adult.

Or, they're concerned about the fact that it happened on a bus and they're using the ages as a convenient excuse for extra punishment.

[StrangeSox]

The article quotes District Counsel Aceveto as saying that they contacted Child Protective Services and the local police due to the male being a minor.

[iamshack]

The article quotes District Counsel Aceveto as saying that they contacted Child Protective Services and the local police due to the male being a minor.

Yeah, but the huge distinction between this and the other case is this happened ON SCHOOL PROPERTY basically. It wasn't a matter of them overhearing about these two dating and then going after them.

[StrangeSox]

Texas should modify its statutes in this area to bring them more in line with the "SYG" language--don't give an affirmative defense for the 18yo boinking the 17yo, give them presumed innocence.

[Texsox]

Do we want the school to decide what is, and what is not legal, or the police and CPS? And if the school makes the wrong decision, should they be absolved of their mistake?

 

At least on the radio interview it seemed as if it had been two 18 year old students they would not have called CPS and the police.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Do we want the school to decide what is, and what is not legal, or the police and CPS? And if the school makes the wrong decision, should they be absolved of their mistake?

 

At least on the radio interview it seemed as if it had been two 18 year old students they would not have called CPS and the police.

 

I've said from the start that in these cases, I'd personally be clarifying district policy once I was aware of this potentially being an issue. If I were district counsel, I'd clarify with CPS and police on the proper policy.

[iamshack]

I understand the need to cover your own ass, but I also think that the kids need to be afforded a bit of privacy when it comes to relationships occurring outside of school property.

 

High School romances occur between 18 year olds and what are technically "minors" all the time. Are we going to start chasing down all these seniors and accusing them of sexual relations with a minor or statutory rape?

[Texsox]

Which is what they are doing. I can't believe the coach didn't do anything. I have3 not viewed the video, but it sounds pretty cut and dry from what they are saying here. And at least the school was not trying to sweep it under a rug. If they do face some sort of liability for allowing a minor to be "abused", notifying the police and CPS hopefully would help them. I'm assuming there will not be a penalty.

[StrangeSox]

Which is what they are doing. I can't believe the coach didn't do anything. I have3 not viewed the video, but it sounds pretty cut and dry from what they are saying here. And at least the school was not trying to sweep it under a rug. If they do face some sort of liability for allowing a minor to be "abused", notifying the police and CPS hopefully would help them. I'm assuming there will not be a penalty.

 

I don't have a problem with what happened here, though I think it wastes some peoples' time and may be avoided in the future with policy clarifications.

 

It's not very similar to the case in the OP, though. There's no privacy issue at stake.

[farmteam]

Definitely agree that sex on school property/in public is the much bigger issue here.

 

FWIW, as long as it's consensual, that relationship would not be illegal in Minnesota (and many other jurisdictions, probably) if it occurred in private.

[knightni]

It seems to me that they should legally be considered a "minor" even though they are over 17 because, they are under the care and direct supervision of the school system and not a graduate or a GED student.

 

Like has been spoken of by others, there's no way that schools can regulate 18 year olds and 17 year olds having sex. If it's more than a year difference, then it is an issue; i.e., a 19 year old Senior and a 15 year old Sophomore.

[Texsox]

Schools can't regulate, society does through laws. Just like schools do not regulate child endangerment, we have to report it when we learn about it. Schools have to follow the laws and have to err on the side of reporting. Taxpayers, who would bear the burden of a large settlement if we didn't, demand it. Schools are reporting because the law requires us to. We are trained that we are not police officers, attorneys, judges, or juries, we are teachers and we have a duty to report and allow trained professionals to decide what, if any, actions need to be taken. And of course there has to be something that brings it to the school's attention. Schools should not be out playing detective trying to bust kids. But when events happen and knowledge is obtained, it has to be reported. If you believe society would be better if teachers were not required to report possible cases to police with the punishment of losing their careers if they don't, have the laws changed.

 

 

[iamshack]

Schools can't regulate, society does through laws. Just like schools do not regulate child endangerment, we have to report it when we learn about it. Schools have to follow the laws and have to err on the side of reporting. Taxpayers, who would bear the burden of a large settlement if we didn't, demand it. Schools are reporting because the law requires us to. We are trained that we are not police officers, attorneys, judges, or juries, we are teachers and we have a duty to report and allow trained professionals to decide what, if any, actions need to be taken. And of course there has to be something that brings it to the school's attention. Schools should not be out playing detective trying to bust kids. But when events happen and knowledge is obtained, it has to be reported. If you believe society would be better if teachers were not required to report possible cases to police with the punishment of losing their careers if they don't, have the laws changed.

No, we just expect you to use common sense and good judgment, which you darn well should have already if you're teaching children for a living.

 

 

[Texsox]

No, we just expect you to use common sense and good judgment, which you darn well should have already if you're teaching children for a living.

 

I wish it was that easy. But that's not how laws are written and interpreted. Common sense tells us that when there is only a year or two it shouldn't be a problem. Common sense thirty years ago was a 15 year old male having sex with a 23 year old woman was OK and he was a lucky kid. Hell a lot of people believe that today. Bottom line, with termination the most likely outcome for not reporting, common sense says that teachers will report. Remove the penalty for not reporting, and common sense may come more into it. But when the law basically says if you have prior knowledge of, and do not report, an act of abuse or illegal activity involving a student, you will be disciplined, possibly terminated, teachers report. And "I didn't think it was a crime" is not a defense. Remember, I'm with you, that common sense should come into play.

 

A teacher should be able to say I didn't believe a 18 and 17 having sex was illegal and should be enough to stop any discipline. But by a strict reading of the Texas laws governing reporting, if later it turns out to be illegal, the teacher is in trouble.

 

How can you blame someone for protecting their career? Again, contacting our on campus cop protects me, and if the relationship is illegal, protects the victim. If it is legal, the cop does nothing, and life goes on.

 

But I agree, teachers should be allowed common sense. But as we move more and more towards national standards and such, teacher judgement is valued less and less.

 

And remember that a teacher having all this information is extremely rare. I would have no way of knowing the age of a non student. I have no way of knowing they are having a physical relationship unless something really unusual happens. Most teachers will go their entire careers without ever confronting this situation. We are far more likely to learn of a student living on their own, being physically abused, being truant while working in the fields, etc. than anything involving sex. A student in my class of 8th graders saying he's having sex with some girl in the next town I can ignore because I have no knowledge, nor would I want any, of the other girl.

 

About the only investigating I can recall being done was involving child pornography when a boy was showing pictures of a naked, underage,female. We followed the law, looked at his phone, and he was turned over to the police.

[iamshack]

I wish it was that easy. But that's not how laws are written and interpreted. Common sense tells us that when there is only a year or two it shouldn't be a problem. Common sense thirty years ago was a 15 year old male having sex with a 23 year old woman was OK and he was a lucky kid. Hell a lot of people believe that today. Bottom line, with termination the most likely outcome for not reporting, common sense says that teachers will report. Remove the penalty for not reporting, and common sense may come more into it. But when the law basically says if you have prior knowledge of, and do not report, an act of abuse or illegal activity involving a student, you will be disciplined, possibly terminated, teachers report. And "I didn't think it was a crime" is not a defense. Remember, I'm with you, that common sense should come into play.

 

A teacher should be able to say I didn't believe a 18 and 17 having sex was illegal and should be enough to stop any discipline. But by a strict reading of the Texas laws governing reporting, if later it turns out to be illegal, the teacher is in trouble.

 

How can you blame someone for protecting their career? Again, contacting our on campus cop protects me, and if the relationship is illegal, protects the victim. If it is legal, the cop does nothing, and life goes on.

 

But I agree, teachers should be allowed common sense. But as we move more and more towards national standards and such, teacher judgement is valued less and less.

 

And remember that a teacher having all this information is extremely rare. I would have no way of knowing the age of a non student. I have no way of knowing they are having a physical relationship unless something really unusual happens. Most teachers will go their entire careers without ever confronting this situation. We are far more likely to learn of a student living on their own, being physically abused, being truant while working in the fields, etc. than anything involving sex. A student in my class of 8th graders saying he's having sex with some girl in the next town I can ignore because I have no knowledge, nor would I want any, of the other girl.

 

About the only investigating I can recall being done was involving child pornography when a boy was showing pictures of a naked, underage,female. We followed the law, looked at his phone, and he was turned over to the police.

I think your jobs have become more difficult as kids have begun to get into real trouble at an earlier age. There is also a lack of respect for authority figures and their elders in general by kids.

 

However, if legislators try to put you in the role of teachers AND parents, you will likely fail at both.

[Texsox]

I think your jobs have become more difficult as kids have begun to get into real trouble at an earlier age. There is also a lack of respect for authority figures and their elders in general by kids.

 

However, if legislators try to put you in the role of teachers AND parents, you will likely fail at both.

 

Ain't that the truth. There was a cartoon that zoomed through our school a couple weeks ago. Basically it showed parents in 1970, holding a report card and yelling at their child "these grades are too low". The next panel was in 2012 with the same parents yelling "these grades are too low" to the teacher. About 5 to 10% of my kids just do not care about school. They do not turn in assignments that we do in class, forget about homework, abuse school equipment, talk constantly in class, etc. Keep in mind we provide free tuition, books, and supplies *and* feed them breakfast and lunch.

 

I need to have 90%+ of my students to pass the state assessments. On those rare occasions when a parent will answer the phone when the school is calling, they will blame the teacher for their child's attitude and behavior. We don't like their kid, we pick on them, other kids are also talking, our class is boring, etc etc. It is almost never the child's fault. I won't even mention the inappropriate clothes they wear to a parent teacher conference. That tells me they either do not own any clothes without plunging necklines and too short shorts or do not understand a learning environment. I don't care if they are new or old, etc. Just put on something that doesn't look like you are going out to a club to hook up with someone.

 

In fairness I also have 5 - 10% of the parents who monitor their child's grades, call us if they see something they are concerned about, call us to schedule and appointment. These are the kids who are usually A-B students.

 

So the more I think about it, a campaign to get common sense back into the schools would help everyone.

 

[Iwritecode]

About 5 to 10% of my kids just do not care about school. They do not turn in assignments that we do in class, forget about homework, abuse school equipment, talk constantly in class, etc.

 

Out of curiosity, what is your suggestion to correct these problems? What should the parents be doing to make sure they turn in their assignments, do their homework, pay attention in class and care about school?

 

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Ain't that the truth. There was a cartoon that zoomed through our school a couple weeks ago. Basically it showed parents in 1970, holding a report card and yelling at their child "these grades are too low". The next panel was in 2012 with the same parents yelling "these grades are too low" to the teacher. About 5 to 10% of my kids just do not care about school. They do not turn in assignments that we do in class, forget about homework, abuse school equipment, talk constantly in class, etc. Keep in mind we provide free tuition, books, and supplies *and* feed them breakfast and lunch.

 

I need to have 90%+ of my students to pass the state assessments. On those rare occasions when a parent will answer the phone when the school is calling, they will blame the teacher for their child's attitude and behavior. We don't like their kid, we pick on them, other kids are also talking, our class is boring, etc etc. It is almost never the child's fault. I won't even mention the inappropriate clothes they wear to a parent teacher conference. That tells me they either do not own any clothes without plunging necklines and too short shorts or do not understand a learning environment. I don't care if they are new or old, etc. Just put on something that doesn't look like you are going out to a club to hook up with someone.

 

In fairness I also have 5 - 10% of the parents who monitor their child's grades, call us if they see something they are concerned about, call us to schedule and appointment. These are the kids who are usually A-B students.

 

So the more I think about it, a campaign to get common sense back into the schools would help everyone.

 

Just fits with the overwhelming push away from self responsibility to an "it's everyone else's fault but mine" mentality that this country has. Criminals are criminals because they grow up in s***ty neighborhoods and therefore can't comprehend right from wrong. Single parents with no money are unfortunate victims of being teenagers with natural urges. Being overweight and unhealthy is due to fast food being available, not the fact that people lack self control and refuse to exercise. People are poor because of X, Y, Z, not at all because of their choices in life. We've had a few generations in a row now where societal leaders are telling people that they're not getting enough from society/the government so they should demand more. "Of course my kid doesn't want to learn. It's your job to make them!"

 

 

[iamshack]

Out of curiosity, what is your suggestion to correct these problems? What should the parents be doing to make sure they turn in their assignments, do their homework, pay attention in class and care about school?

Make it clear to their children how important school is.

 

Make doing well in school (or at least trying hard) a requisite condition to doing a lot of things they consider fun...

[southsider2k5]

Make it clear to their children how important school is.

 

Make doing well in school (or at least trying hard) a requisite condition to doing a lot of things they consider fun...

 

The big problem is too many parents don't think school is important.

[Texsox]

Out of curiosity, what is your suggestion to correct these problems? What should the parents be doing to make sure they turn in their assignments, do their homework, pay attention in class and care about school?

 

For those with internet access and the skills to use them, go to the parent portal and look. Call the school if there is a question. Check their progress reports and report cards. I can't tell you how many parents believe we stopped issuing report cards. Believe the teacher most of the time. If four teachers tell you your kid is disrupting class, believe us. And don't give us the well everyone else is doing it. Well we have to stop someone first.

[Iwritecode]

The reason I ask is because some of those things you mentioned are problems we are having with one of our kids. We check her grades all the time and make sure she has her homework done but once she's at school it's sort of out of our hands to make sure she's actually paying attention in class, absorbing the information and turning in her work.

 

We actually had a conference with her teachers once and it didn't help at all. I asked them the same questions and they couldn't give me any answers. We only got to talk to 3 of her 7 teachers. None of them taught the classes she was struggling in the most. They couldn't even tell me if the problem was that she wasn't turning in her work, or she was turning it in and just getting all the answers wrong.

 

Either way she's obviously not retaining the information at all because she keeps failing her tests.

 

She has ADD and I know that's a big part of it. I think we might be too late to salvage this year but we need to get an IEP for her. She's struggled more this year than she ever has in the past.

 

[Texsox]

Sounds like you made the correct first step and the teachers let you down. I'd reschedule a conference with the teacher of the subject where the problem is. We team teach here and you will always have three of the four core teachers there. (The fourth is handling our tutoring groups). We'll pick the class where the student is doing best to not be there.

 

A couple thoughts that may help your daughter.

 

Prioritize the most important stuff like reading and math. Do more if you can, but be certain that reading and math is taken care of.

 

Help her to understand there is a difference between doing homework and studying.

 

Find her learning style, what works best, and find additional materials that suit her style. Find a different textbook that covers the same material, find videos, etc.

 

Check over her class notes or help her to create some. Note taking is an art and it takes a while for people to get better at it.

 

If it is serious enough an outside tutor can be a real help.