Iwritecode Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So my wife and I met this guy sometime last year. He's 26 but he has some mental retardation so he has the mental capacity of about a 13-year-old. He can drive and could probably manage to hold a job and live on his own but there are a few things he doesn't know how to do. Cooking, cleaning, paying bills, etc... Both of his parents died within the past 3 years so he gets money from social security. When we met him he had been living with a couple that he constantly complained about. It turns out they were not taking care of him properly, lying to him and stealing his money. So we invited him to live with us while we get everything straightened out. The biggest problem was that they had him sign a power of attorney so they could have access to his bank account. He had no idea what kind of power/access he was giving them when he signed it. The POA has been revoked but going over his bank statements from the past year or so his balance steadily went down from about $3000 to basically zero. The couple was transferring money from his bank account to their own. The last transfer was done a day or so after he moved out of their house and into ours, so the money obviously wasn't being spent on him. We changed the password on his account so they couldn't access it online anymore after the POA was revoked. Even after that they still went to the bank in person to try to take out money. Thankfully the bank denied them. We've talked to the people at the social security office to see if there's anyway he can get the money back from them but they said that since he signed a POA there's nothing they can do. That doesn't sound right to me. If nothing else they should be required to provide receipts to show what the money was spent on. They also have a storage shed in their name with his stuff in it but they are refusing to open it so he can get his stuff out. We are debating on contacting a lawyer to see if we even have a case and if we do what the chances are of actually getting anything out of them. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well there are a few different theories, depends on the actual mental capacity of the person. If he is considered disabled (and he would need to be adjudicated that way) you can potentially file something in the guardianship estate to say that they basically were hiding his disability and trying to collect on it without courts knowledge. If he is not disabled, then you could still try and sue on a regular fraud claim or conversion (they had no right to the money.) The first real step is a Dr needs to determine whether or not he can make decisions for himself or whether he needs a guardian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 That's a big mess because the couple he was with wouldn't allow him to be re-tested even though he got a letter saying that he would lose his benefits if he wasn't. They wouldn't let him talk to his case worker or anyone else that might help him. In fact, they got upset with my wife when she started digging this stuff up and started to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Need to find out if a there was more than just the power of attorney. If they opened up a guardianship, there are some limitations to what the guardian can/can't do. They're supposed to be looking after his affairs for his benefit, not their own. If he just signed the POA, you could attempt to get that invalidated since he didn't have the mental capacity to sign it. That'd require something from his doctor. That's why you normally would open up an estate to get the same powers as a POA, without the need for him to agree to it. I'd talk to an attorney about it. If you're talking about a few thousand bucks lost, since you stopped them from getting anything in the future i'd move on. At some point getting an attorney involved becomes a financial decision - is it worth it? A few thousand bucks? Probably not. I'm guessing this couple, if they're stealing from him, are a bunch of deadbeats anyway. Even if you got a judgment you couldn't collect. Tough situation. People are assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 03:47 PM) If he just signed the POA, you could attempt to get that invalidated since he didn't have the mental capacity to sign it. That'd require something from his doctor. That's why you normally would open up an estate to get the same powers as a POA, without the need for him to agree to it. Would he just need something from a doctor? I'd think it would need to actually be adjudicated, as Soxbadger referenced. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 03:47 PM) I'd talk to an attorney about it. If you're talking about a few thousand bucks lost, since you stopped them from getting anything in the future i'd move on. At some point getting an attorney involved becomes a financial decision - is it worth it? A few thousand bucks? Probably not. I'm guessing this couple, if they're stealing from him, are a bunch of deadbeats anyway. Even if you got a judgment you couldn't collect. Tough situation. People are assholes. This is the bottom line. It sounds like the scenario where at the least it's probably worth going to an attorney and seeing not only if there might be a case, but if it's actually worth it to pursue. My guess is that it won't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 QUOTE (farmteam @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) Would he just need something from a doctor? I'd think it would need to actually be adjudicated, as Soxbadger referenced. To invalidate the POA yeah, you'd eventually need a judge/jury to agree with you. But if you can't find a doctor to declare him mentally incompetent there's no point in bringing the action for fraud or conversion in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I actually have done disabled guardianship in Illinois, so if it is IL a good place to start is: http://gac.state.il.us/guardfaq.html http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/index.cfm?...;contentID=5099 If he is disabled and you can file for Disabled Guardianship, once someone was appointed Guardian, they could file a citation for the ward to try and discover assets taken by them. And even if you have a valid POA, it doesnt mean there wasnt a fraud perpetrated in getting the person to sign it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 04:57 PM) To invalidate the POA yeah, you'd eventually need a judge/jury to agree with you. But if you can't find a doctor to declare him mentally incompetent there's no point in bringing the action for fraud or conversion in the first place. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't have anything to add, I would just like to applaud you and your wife's actions. It is a noble deed, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 ^^ x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 03:47 PM) Need to find out if a there was more than just the power of attorney. If they opened up a guardianship, there are some limitations to what the guardian can/can't do. They're supposed to be looking after his affairs for his benefit, not their own. If he just signed the POA, you could attempt to get that invalidated since he didn't have the mental capacity to sign it. That'd require something from his doctor. That's why you normally would open up an estate to get the same powers as a POA, without the need for him to agree to it. I'd talk to an attorney about it. If you're talking about a few thousand bucks lost, since you stopped them from getting anything in the future i'd move on. At some point getting an attorney involved becomes a financial decision - is it worth it? A few thousand bucks? Probably not. I'm guessing this couple, if they're stealing from him, are a bunch of deadbeats anyway. Even if you got a judgment you couldn't collect. I'd talk to an attorney about it. If you're talking about a few thousand bucks lost, since you stopped them from getting anything in the future i'd move on. At some point getting an attorney involved becomes a financial decision - is it worth it? A few thousand bucks? Probably not. I'm guessing this couple, if they're stealing from him, are a bunch of deadbeats anyway. Even if you got a judgment you couldn't collect. That's what I'm leaning towards. They have 5 or 6 kids of their own, no jobs and their house is in foreclosure. Mark it down as a learning experience and move on. I'm sure they'll get what's coming to them eventually. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 03:47 PM) Tough situation. People are assholes. Yes they are. What's funny is that the guy is/was a church pastor. He drives a mini-van plastered with bible quotations all over it. Guess they don't practice what they preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 05:54 PM) I don't have anything to add, I would just like to applaud you and your wife's actions. It is a noble deed, indeed. We have a small house so he has to stay in our basement (which is finished) but it's not the first time we've had somebody down there. My best friend and his wife lived with us for a little while. My wife's best friend and her two kids stayed with us for a couple of weeks when they had a house fire. Another friend of ours, her boyfriend and their baby lived with us for a few months as well. Growing up my parents always had friends and family members living with them for one reason or another for months or years at a time. So I guess it's not that big of a deal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Iwritecode, You need to have it established whether he is in need of a guardian or not. Can he take care of himself? If he can not, a guardian needs to be appointed, you do not need an attorney to do it, you just need time and effort. In terms of reclaiming the funds, there is a potential you could do it through a guardianship estate, otherwise youd need an attorney because no one else could represent him or speak for him to the judge (unless hes adjudicated disabled and then you could bring a cause of action on his behalf.) A few thousand probably is not worth it if you have to pay attorneys, the reality is that its unlikely the money is there and unless they have a job collections can be difficult at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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