caulfield12 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 And there's no reason that the likes of Santiago, Petricka, Castro and/or Axelrod can't be put into that starting rotation before Molina. Obviously, the same goes with Stewart. There's just no compelling reason to rush him, other than to justify that trade immediately. We finally have some semblance of pitching depth in the upper minors...let's use that to protect Molina's development and psyche to nurture him for as long as necessary before he's 100% ready for major league hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 19, 2012 -> 05:40 PM) Obviously, the same goes with Stewart. There's just no compelling reason to rush him, other than to justify that trade immediately. If it were up to me, Stewart starts next season as Charlotte's top starter, and we see where we go from there, which could include a midseason callup if he earns it and a slot opens up (i.e. by a Peavy/Floyd deadline trade). I think he's still got a future as a starter...but then, even Cooper seems to disagree with me and says he's gonna be in the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 19, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) Bringing up Molina this year is the wrong answer. Bringing up Molina before the middle of next year is probably the wrong answer. But again, that requires admitting that we're not going all-in this year and that we have to look towards the future...including with the job status of the people in the front office. The right time to bring a player up is for the GM to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Plus Stewart, like Molina and Sale, are guys with a past history of relief work...so getting him another full season of starting at the AAA level would be much better than him replacing Jason Frasor, or Jesse Crain, or whoever else is dealt from the pen. We have to be more about development this year. You almost fear we're 3-5 GB and they begin to make decisions like sticking Stewart in the major league pen in order to shore things up instead of spending money acquiring another expensive veteran in the Linebrink/Frasor/Dotel/MacDougal mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Time will tell it was not a sexy offseason as far as free agent signings go. The farm system needed to be addressed and KW did what he thought was best. Edited February 19, 2012 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Feb 19, 2012 -> 06:01 PM) Time will tell it was not a sexy offseason as far as free agents go. The one thing we can say is that outside of the "back of the bullpen", every position has someone there to fill it. We have an obvious starting lineup, rotation, and relief, so there's no place where a big time FA signing would clearly help, and there's no place save Sergio where trading a person away clearly created a hole that we couldn't fill. Now the question is whether we'll have success filling those holes. Or, more specifically, can we grow the guys we have into quality players to fill those holes. That's why development right now has to be the #1 priority. We have to develop what we have. It's the only way we're going to be competitive for the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 One will probably wonder later in this season if dealing Thornton, Floyd and possibly Crain in the offseason would have been the better moves to make...because there probably aren't very many Sox fans who bought season tickets because of their confidence in the Sox contending based on the retention of these 3 guys. They trade/dump any of those 3, clearly they're in rebuilding mode. With them, there's still the illusion for the more casual fan that we're sort of trying to compete in 2011, or at least not surrendering before the season even begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If you are a truly dominant pitcher in the upper minors and your team isn't competing sure doesn't hurt to give a guy like Molina a spot start once in a while when you have guys like Peavy, Humber and Sale in the rotation. Just be sure to keep him pitching in his regular turn. I believe if you have lightning in a bottle you uncork it but only if that lightning is truly spectacular. Molina has to show very rare numbers to have any chance at all this year to pitch for the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 19, 2012 -> 04:40 PM) And there's no reason that the likes of Santiago, Petricka, Castro and/or Axelrod can't be put into that starting rotation before Molina. Obviously, the same goes with Stewart. There's just no compelling reason to rush him, other than to justify that trade immediately. We finally have some semblance of pitching depth in the upper minors...let's use that to protect Molina's development and psyche to nurture him for as long as necessary before he's 100% ready for major league hitters. The problem is you do not know the Pyche of any of the players nor do I for the most part. The only people that do are the ones that deal wih them on a daily basis. They may come to the conclusion that Molina is best suited for MLB success from the mental aspect. The others may best suited for a relief role. I'm not saying this is true, just that the people in the organization are the only ones you can decide this and to say that there is no reason that the other shouldn't be ahead of him is not accurrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 We saw what happened with Hudson...he rushed through the system and he was dumped after only 3 starts. Just hope the same thing doesn't happen with Molina. That he comes up at a time where they can be patient with him (like Danks and Floyd in 2007) and suffer through the growing pains and development together, instead of always being in "must win now" short-term thinking mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I don't know how anybody could give the Sox a D- for the offseason they had. There were some questionable moves, but it's not as if this team is suddenly worse for this year and worse for the future because of the moves made during this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 06:20 AM) I don't know how anybody could give the Sox a D- for the offseason they had. There were some questionable moves, but it's not as if this team is suddenly worse for this year and worse for the future because of the moves made during this offseason. Actually...it's entirely possible this is true. A lot hangs on Molina and Castro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 05:20 AM) I don't know how anybody could give the Sox a D- for the offseason they had. There were some questionable moves, but it's not as if this team is suddenly worse for this year and worse for the future because of the moves made during this offseason. When you are not good enough if you don't obviously improve your team for the present or don't obviously upgrade your future you get a low grade Castro was once highly thought of but AAA ERAs around 10.00 lower expectations. Molina could be good but less than 300 IP in his life and only 22 of those above A ball tempers expectations as well. V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 07:54 AM) Actually...it's entirely possible this is true. A lot hangs on Molina and Castro. That's a pretty poor argument though. Using that same argument, I could say that the Athletics didn't really do anything to make themselves better this year and that they didn't really do anything to improve themselves in the future because nobody knows what Cespedes does. You could make the same exact argument about the Cubs too. Williams, by any measure you want to make, brought in a lot of pitching talent. The future of this organization looks better than it did before we went into the offseason. And, considering the success he's had at turning other teams' pitching prospects into big time contributors at the MLB level, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. A grade of D- is dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 08:23 AM) When you are not good enough if you don't obviously improve your team for the present or don't obviously upgrade your future you get a low grade Castro was once highly thought of but AAA ERAs around 10.00 lower expectations. Molina could be good but less than 300 IP in his life and only 22 of those above A ball tempers expectations as well. V Yeah, a C. They didn't make any big splashes or bring in any big time impact prospects that are going to change the scope of the organization, but the team looks better for the future. What's a team like the Twins doing? They lost 99 games last year, lost a lot of power in Cuddyer, Kubel, and Thome, and replaced it with Willingham, Doumit, and Jamey Carroll. They lost Joe Nathan and replaced him with Joel Zumaya who, in the last four years, has thrown 92.2 IP, which is about 23 innings a year. They brought in Jason Marquis to eat innings, and I fully expect him to put up an ERA of about 5. Do they really expect those moves to improve them much beyond a .500 team this year and then help them going forward as well? The Sox can have a C or a D- or an F--- or 0 stars out of 5 or three thumbs down or whatever stupid rating anybody wants to give them. I am happier with the way they approached this offseason than the Twins did. The Twins have a little better system, so they can afford to take chances like this, but if their moves fail, they're out a ton of money and have to let it ride on the bench. The Sox can simply cut players or trade them for other busted prospects who might be a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 05:02 PM) That's a pretty poor argument though. Using that same argument, I could say that the Athletics didn't really do anything to make themselves better this year and that they didn't really do anything to improve themselves in the future because nobody knows what Cespedes does. You could make the same exact argument about the Cubs too. Williams, by any measure you want to make, brought in a lot of pitching talent. The future of this organization looks better than it did before we went into the offseason. And, considering the success he's had at turning other teams' pitching prospects into big time contributors at the MLB level, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. A grade of D- is dumb. It's a good grade. The Sox did not try to improve as a team. The team is expected to be way worse than last year. So it's a good grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) It's a good grade. The Sox did not try to improve as a team. The team is expected to be way worse than last year. So it's a good grade. Really? I'm sorta putting them right where they were last year. I think it would actually be pretty hard for them to be way worse unless Danks got seriously hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) It's a good grade. The Sox did not try to improve as a team. The team is expected to be way worse than last year. So it's a good grade. I really don't see how they can be "way worse" than last year. Come October, their record may be similar to 2011's, and I would say that would be an okay season. Expectations were so high last year, and the season turned out to be terrible. Expectations are lower this year, and rightfully so. I disagree with the D- grade, but I certainly wouldn't give them anything higher than a C. But, if some of those guys they picked up pan out, hindsight might make some folks re-evaluate this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) It's a good grade. The Sox did not try to improve as a team. The team is expected to be way worse than last year. So it's a good grade. The Sox did improve as a team. Perhaps not as much in 2012, but going forward, they brought in a lot of young talent. You can't deny this. I also don't expect them to be worse than last year. If anything, I expect them to tread water. I think having a calmer voice leading this team will do the same for others on the team and will keep them playing pretty well all year. Further, I think having a new hitting coach will be good as well, even if they're hearing the same types of things. Sometimes, all you need is hearing something from somebody else. The bullpen still has a ton of talent and Buehrle is being replaced by Sale in the rotation. I don't see any possible way that Dunn could be as bad as he was last year and there are others who I expect to see good numbers from as well. I'm actually getting excited. (I also won't care if they lose 90 games because I have no expectations for this team. 90 losses would net a high draft pick, almost certainly top 10, and that brings more talent into the organization) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 11:45 AM) It's a good grade. The Sox did not try to improve as a team. The team is expected to be way worse than last year. So it's a good grade. The got rid of Ozzie. They improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) The got rid of Ozzie. They improved. Even with Robin's inexperience, getting rid of Ozzie should be worth several wins. He was that bad last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 12:28 PM) Even with Robin's inexperience, getting rid of Ozzie should be worth several wins. He was that bad last year. Just removing the strain in the locker room will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I believe a less talented team this year, with a rookie manager, will outperform last years mess. I at least have confidence that the manager wants to see the team win. I'm thinking Dunn as comeback player of the year and Rios to suck. Worse in the Central? Yeah it could happen. I'm thinking 3rd or 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 21, 2012 -> 07:40 PM) I believe a less talented team this year, with a rookie manager, will outperform last years mess. I at least have confidence that the manager wants to see the team win. I'm thinking Dunn as comeback player of the year and Rios to suck. Worse in the Central? Yeah it could happen. I'm thinking 3rd or 4th. I am torn. I understand what Greg is saying and to some extent agree, but sometimes taking chances pans out. But, I am counting on Dunn and Rios as professonals that care and want to win to make comebacks and Peavy to be healthy and perform to close to his best level. Trouble with Jalke he has been about three years removed from his glory days. But, he has grit. 3rd place or lower is the projection, but the team might surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It would also be impossible to paint a picture so pessimistic I'd argue with it. I think the proven part of the talent is down from last year, the upside is higher (even subtracting Dunn and Rios). I believe the attitude will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.