The team is pretty much set.

[caulfield12]

De Aza CF

Morel 3B

Rios LF

Konerko 1B

Dunn DH

Viciedo RF

Ramirez SS

Pierzynski C

Beckham 2B

 

Flowers

Lillibridge

Fukudome

O. Martinez

 

Peavy

Danks

Floyd

Humber

Sale

 

Stewart

Santiago

Infante

Ohman

Crain

Thornton

Reed

 

 

That last spot going to Infante could go to one of about 10-15 possibilities.

 

And one can't yet be certain they'd rather have Santiago was the 2nd or 3rd guy instead of starting, as long as Thornton and Ohman are still on the roster.

[JohnCangelosi]

Quite frankly it will be refreshing to see a different lineup out there other than the Ozzie lineups. I am expecting Robin's to make a bit more sense.

 

[cabiness42]

vs RHP

de Aza CF

Fukudome RF

Dunn DH

Konerko 1B

AJ C

Ramirez SS

Lillibridge LF

Beckham 2B

Morel 3B

 

 

vs LHP

Lillibridge LF

Ramirez SS

Rios RF

Konerko DH

Viciedo 1B

Flowers C

Beckham 2B

Morel 3B

de Aza CF

 

Rotation:

Danks

Humber

Floyd

Sale

Peavy

 

Bullpen:

Crain

Thornton

Reed

Ohman

Santiago

Stewart

Axelrod

[greg775]

My eyes nearly popped out of my head when I read the last line.

 

Rios is simply incapable of that. He is a very limited player who isn't getting any younger and his lack of desire compounds the problem.

[mmmmmbeeer]

DeAza

Bacon

Kong

Dunn

Rios

Alexei

Viciedo

AJ

Morel

 

Danks

Peavy

Gavin

Humber

Sale

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I expect very nice rebound seasons from both Dunn and Gordon. I think Ozzie's attitude didn't mix with these guys and they will both work very well under Robin.

[caulfield12]

vs RHP

de Aza CF

Fukudome RF

Dunn DH

Konerko 1B

AJ C

Ramirez SS

Lillibridge LF

Beckham 2B

Morel 3B

 

 

vs LHP

Lillibridge LF

Ramirez SS

Rios RF

Konerko DH

Viciedo 1B

Flowers C

Beckham 2B

Morel 3B

de Aza CF

 

Rotation:

Danks

Humber

Floyd

Sale

Peavy

 

Bullpen:

Crain

Thornton

Reed

Ohman

Santiago

Stewart

Axelrod

 

 

Why even have Viciedo on the roster if he's only going to get 150 at bats?

[TaylorStSox]

Rios is simply incapable of that. He is a very limited player who isn't getting any younger and his lack of desire compounds the problem.

Jesus. Lack of desire? Does Beckham lack desire because he can't hit a fastball? Rios was all kinds of messed up last year, but at least he made adjustments to address his screwed up mechanics. He's more than capable of hitting those numbers. I was only semi serious, but I'd be willing to be bet he's the team's most improved player. The whole "doesn't care/lack of desire/dog" vitriol is so tired. There's no proof. People must not like the way the guy looks or something. Lillibridge cost us a game last year lollygagging in the outfield and he's probably the most popular guy on the team. I don't get my fellow Sox fans sometimes.

 

Sorry for the derailing the thread. Carry on.

[greg775]

Jesus. Lack of desire? Does Beckham lack desire because he can't hit a fastball? Rios was all kinds of messed up last year, but at least he made adjustments to address his screwed up mechanics. He's more than capable of hitting those numbers. I was only semi serious, but I'd be willing to be bet he's the team's most improved player. The whole "doesn't care/lack of desire/dog" vitriol is so tired. There's no proof. People must not like the way the guy looks or something. Lillibridge cost us a game last year lollygagging in the outfield and he's probably the most popular guy on the team. I don't get my fellow Sox fans sometimes.

 

Sorry for the derailing the thread. Carry on.

 

Cmon. Did you watch Rios chase fly balls last year? He disgraced the game at times IMO.

That's my proof. My eyes. And my wasted money to mlb.com.

Seriously, how many games did you watch last year? Cause I'm thinking if you watched the games you'd have to notice the guy sucked and loafed, flat out loafed.

 

Of course, Paulie is accused of loafing when he does the shoulder shrug, but I digress.

Edited February 22, 2012 by greg775

[cabiness42]

Why even have Viciedo on the roster if he's only going to get 150 at bats?

 

This is how I'd start out the first month or so. Inevitably guys will play themselves into more playing time and some less. If the outfielders hit well and an infielder struggles, Lillibridge can take more IF at bats and leave more for Viciedo. Or if Dunn never recovers Viciedo can play more 1B/DH. There are a lot of possibilities, but this is how I'd start out to get a chance to evaluate everybody.

 

 

[Balta1701]

This is how I'd start out the first month or so. Inevitably guys will play themselves into more playing time and some less. If the outfielders hit well and an infielder struggles, Lillibridge can take more IF at bats and leave more for Viciedo. Or if Dunn never recovers Viciedo can play more 1B/DH. There are a lot of possibilities, but this is how I'd start out to get a chance to evaluate everybody.

If Dayan Viciedo needs to play his way into playing time over a veteran, put him at Charlotte and stop the charade. Or Hell, just release him.

 

He's proven everything he can prove against minor league pitching, he's proven he can hit some levels of big league pitching, but he hasn't yet proven he can adapt to big league pitching as pitchers learn different ways to attack him. You know how to prevent him from ever learning that? Putting him on the bench/platooning him.

 

He also hasn't proven he will be a solid RF. You know where he won't learn how to do that? On the bench.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

If Dayan Viciedo needs to play his way into playing time over a veteran, put him at Charlotte and stop the charade. Or Hell, just release him.

LOL...you aren't one for the drama. You view 2012 simply as a developmental season. Some people think we have a shot to win. I'm looking to balance the two, at least at the beginning of the season. I think Fukudome can be extremely valuable to us in the #2 spot against RHP. I want to get his bat into lineup as much as possible against RHP in April. That means Rios and Viciedo will need to sit sometimes and I'm fine with that. Viciedo had a sub .500 OPS against RHP last year. I'd rather pick matchups where he can succeed initially and gradually give him more playing time througout the season. I'm not so sure having him struggle terribly is necessarily better for his development. Some guys that struggle early on develop bad habits and get away from what made them successful in the first place.

[Balta1701]

LOL...you aren't one for the drama. You view 2012 simply as a developmental season. Some people think we have a shot to win. I'm looking to balance the two, at least at the beginning of the season. I think Fukudome can be extremely valuable to us in the #2 spot against RHP. I want to get his bat into lineup as much as possible against RHP in April. That means Rios and Viciedo will need to sit sometimes and I'm fine with that. Viciedo had a sub .500 OPS against RHP last year. I'd rather pick matchups where he can succeed initially and gradually give him more playing time througout the season. I'm not so sure having him struggle terribly is necessarily better for his development. Some guys that struggle early on develop bad habits and get away from what made them successful in the first place.

If we have a shot to win, we are not winning without Dayan Viciedo raking. It really is that simple.

 

Kosuke Fukudome putting up a .750 OPS if we're lucky in the 2 spot will not make this team competitive.

[cabiness42]

Fine, give Viciedo some of Lillibridge's AB's vs RHP, but I want to see both de Aza and Fukudome in the lineup vs RHP the first month or so to figure out how they are going to do.

[Balta1701]

Fine, give Viciedo some of Lillibridge's AB's vs RHP, but I want to see both de Aza and Fukudome in the lineup vs RHP the first month or so to figure out how they are going to do.

Why on Earth is "Figuring out what a 35 year old is going to do" against RHP any sort of priority whatsoever?

 

He has a .775 career OPS against RHP, and if he's going to do better than that, it's going to be based on luck. His numbers screamed downwards last year compared to both his career and the first half, with a .723 OPS against LHP on the year. He is the definition of a backup. Play him like a backup. When someone needs benched (hi my name is Alex Rios), bench them. When someone needs a day off, give them a day off. But we don't need to see what he can do, we don't need to develop him, he doesn't need his at bats, and all treating anyone as a platoon player with him will do is retard the growth of a guy we actually need to perform. If someone in front of him totally fails to perform, then you evaluate what the best thing for that player's development is...whether it's a week off or some time down at Charlotte.

 

The idea of another platoon because we're scared to trust the guys we need to trust really angers me. It was one of the worst things Ozzie did. Still say it cost us the 2006 division. If the kid is coming up, play the kid.

[Chicago White Sox]

If we have a shot to win, we are not winning without Dayan Viciedo raking. It really is that simple.

 

Kosuke Fukudome putting up a .750 OPS if we're lucky in the 2 spot will not make this team competitive.

You're right, but I'd rather look at the overall production of the position. I think Viciedo is more likely to put up a .850 OPS or higher in 450 at-bats if he faces all LHP and sits against tough RHP (based on matchup). I honestly think Fukudome can give us close to a .800 OPS in the remaining RF at-bats, which I'm predicting would be a lot higher than what Viciedo would put up in those same at-bats. Overall, you'd be getting very good production out of RF this way.

[LittleHurt05]

You're right, but I'd rather look at the overall production of the position. I think Viciedo is more likely to put up a .850 OPS or higher in 450 at-bats if he faces all LHP and sits against tough RHP (based on matchup). I honestly think Fukudome can give us close to a .800 OPS in the remaining RF at-bats, which I'm predicting would be a lot higher than what Viciedo would put up in those same at-bats. Overall, you'd be getting very good production out of RF this way.

 

What exactly makes you think that? His career OPS vs. RHP is .775 & he showed major decline last year?

[thomas_35]

i REALLY hope that Robin isn't the 2nd coming of Jerry Manuel and/or Terry Bevington.

 

i hope he has some fire in him and isn't going to be afraid of confronting umpire in fear of getting a NOOGIED!

 

[Chicago White Sox]

What exactly makes you think that? His career OPS vs. RHP is .775 & he showed major decline last year?

I think some of the decline can be attributed to switching teams/leagues mid-season. I think having a full spring training to prepare will help with that aspect. Also, I would think playing half his games in USCF will increase his slugging a little bit.

[Balta1701]

I think some of the decline can be attributed to switching teams/leagues mid-season. I think having a full spring training to prepare will help with that aspect. Also, I would think playing half his games in USCF will increase his slugging a little bit.

Compared to Wrigley?

[Chicago White Sox]

Compared to Wrigley?

Do you have any numbers that show how much a park inflates/deflates offensive stats for a player on average?

[shago]

[Lillian]

LOL...you aren't one for the drama. You view 2012 simply as a developmental season. Some people think we have a shot to win. I'm looking to balance the two, at least at the beginning of the season. I think Fukudome can be extremely valuable to us in the #2 spot against RHP. I want to get his bat into lineup as much as possible against RHP in April. That means Rios and Viciedo will need to sit sometimes and I'm fine with that. Viciedo had a sub .500 OPS against RHP last year. I'd rather pick matchups where he can succeed initially and gradually give him more playing time througout the season. I'm not so sure having him struggle terribly is necessarily better for his development. Some guys that struggle early on develop bad habits and get away from what made them successful in the first place.

 

I agree with your assessment of Fukudome, as I posted in another thread. His ability to get on base would be a tremendous boost to this Sox squad, which has not been very good at that task. Your suggestion of his hitting in the #2 hole echoes my sentiments exactly.

 

However, I don't want to see him take at bats away from Viciedo. The Sox will need the youngster's slugging and run production potential in the heart of the order. Taking playing time away from Rios makes much more sense to me. Let Fukudome platoon with Rios. I can't believe that his OBP wouldn't be significantly better than Rios' versus RHP.

[Balta1701]

Do you have any numbers that show how much a park inflates/deflates offensive stats for a player on average?

There's a fair amount of year over year variability that shows up in those numbers I've never seen accounted for well, but generally, both Wrigley and the Cell play as hitter's parks. Here's both Rotoworld and BleacherReport showing Wrigley as one of the best hitters parks in the game, slightly above the Cell. Here's a 5 year average showing Wrigley as the 3rd and the Cell as the 4th best hitters park. If you go through ESPN's Year by Year numbers, last year both parks played a bit big, but if you flip back a few years, Wrigley consistently shows up in the top 10, is #3 a couple times, and the Cell is up there as well.

 

I don't think you can tell me Wrigley is a better hitter's park than the Cell, but you can't say the Cell is massively better than Wrigley either. Most likely they're pretty close to a wash and the exact position depends on the number of days the wind blows out. Thus, you're basically putting Fukudome into a similar park. If his slugging goes up because of the park, it's because of some peculiarity he's exploiting, not because of anything systematic.

[Chicago White Sox]

There's a fair amount of year over year variability that shows up in those numbers I've never seen accounted for well, but generally, both Wrigley and the Cell play as hitter's parks. Here's both Rotoworld and BleacherReport showing Wrigley as one of the best hitters parks in the game, slightly above the Cell. Here's a 5 year average showing Wrigley as the 3rd and the Cell as the 4th best hitters park. If you go through ESPN's Year by Year numbers, last year both parks played a bit big, but if you flip back a few years, Wrigley consistently shows up in the top 10, is #3 a couple times, and the Cell is up there as well.

 

I don't think you can tell me Wrigley is a better hitter's park than the Cell, but you can't say the Cell is massively better than Wrigley either. Most likely they're pretty close to a wash and the exact position depends on the number of days the wind blows out. Thus, you're basically putting Fukudome into a similar park. If his slugging goes up because of the park, it's because of some peculiarity he's exploiting, not because of anything systematic.

Fair enough...for some reason I thought the wind blew in at Wrigley more.

[SoxFan1]

Every year is full of what if's. This season, there are more than ever. The team will most likely be incredible mediocre and be about +/-7 games of .500 all season, yet they have the potential to be so much better.

 

Adam Dunn, as we ALL know, was absolute crap last season. How in the WORLD did someone who could be considered the MODEL of consistency, all of the sudden post a .500something OPS? The offense will receive and incredible boost simply by him improving to career averages. Even if they're slightly below average, say 30 HR, 80 RBI, 90 BB, that's a HELL OF A LOT better than 11 HR, 42 RBI, 75 BB that he put up last year.

 

And of course, culprit #2 Alex Rios. When we picked him up in 09, for the most part, people thought it was dumb, yet saw the upside. He was crap in 09 for the Sox, but then came in and was kicking ass in the 1st half of 2010. How quickly we forget that he carried our offense for that 1/2 season by batting 3rd and putting up an an .878 OPS. His career AVG over a 162 game season is a .757 OPS. He posted a .613 OPS last year.

 

Then there's Gordon Beckham. Once the golden boy of the White Sox and the future of the organization, he's done nothing but decline since that awesome rookie campaign. Only 25, he's got tons of time to turn it around though.

 

Pitching wise, there's Jake Peavy. Same story. High expectations, low end results and frequent injuries.

 

Look at the roster and it seems like almost everyone is trending downward. That simply cannot continue to happen. The White Sox need a little luck to contend in 2012. There's no doubt about it. But so much of their luck has been bad recently that it's bound to turn around eventually.

 

I think the toll that Ozzie took on that team, and the entire media fiasco that went along with him, really effected the team much more than people think. Simply dumping him and getting some fresh faces in there will change the atmosphere in the clubhouse like you wouldn't believe.

 

And as we all know, when expectations are the lowest, that's when the most pleasant surprises happen.

 

It's 2012. It's a new season. It's a fresh start. All is forgotten. And it's time to write a new chapter. Expect the worse, hope for the best, and you'll never be disappointed. Sit back, relax, and strap it down.

 

Here's what I'd roll with:

LF De Aza

2B Beckham

1B Konerko

DH Dunn

RF Viciedo

CF Rios

C Pierzynski

SS Ramirez

3B Morel

 

SP Peavy

SP Danks

SP Floyd

SP Stewart

SP Sale

 

Being that it's a new season, I want guys to start off with a lot of confidence. You put Beckham in the 2-hole and you tell him he's capable of doing it, so go do it. You make Peavy the #1 SP because that's what he was brought in to do. Give him a shot, show him you have the confidence in him to be the old Peavy.