Milkman delivers Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) The Help is actually another great example of Hollywood patting itself on the back for boldly confronting racism and social injustice while getting the thing completely wrong and relying largely on stereotypes for minority characters and white people saving the day. You're cleaning up in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) The Help is actually another great example of Hollywood patting itself on the back for boldly confronting racism and social injustice while getting the thing completely wrong and relying largely on stereotypes for minority characters and white people saving the day. You realize it was based on a really popular book and that every single movie doesn't have to tell the entire story of the Civil Rights movement, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) The Help is actually another great example of Hollywood patting itself on the back for boldly confronting racism and social injustice while getting the thing completely wrong and relying largely on stereotypes for minority characters and white people saving the day. Yeah I was going to mention this. The fact that they are celebrating a movie about white people being racist that became popular because those same white people now feel like they solved racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) Since 1996, Octavia Spencer has appeared in 90 television and film projects, most of them small roles. If there's one thing these actors recognize, it's work. They think work is hard (I wouldn't know), and they certainly respect those who put in their time. She works hard as hell. She was fantastic in "The Help". I see no reason she shouldn't receive a standing ovation. Not to make this a debate about whether she worked hard or not, but 90 appearances in 15 years is an average of 2 per month. That's gotta be like a max of 2 weeks of work per month. Is that really a lot in the grand scheme of things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) You realize it was based on a really popular book and that every single movie doesn't have to tell the entire story of the Civil Rights movement, right? The book was also the same way (apparently, I didn't read it). You can read this long review that details a lot of the problems with the story, if you want! Essentially, the dialect is seriously overdone, the black characters are "Magic Negroes" that are used as plot devices to help white people, the black men are barely portrayed and then only in negative stereotypes. Some excerpts: Hollywood has long been enamored with the magical negro—the insertion of a black character into a narrative who bestows upon the protagonist the wisdom they need to move forward in some way or as Matthew Hughey defines the phenomenon in a 2009 article in Social Problems, “The [magical negro] has become a stock character that often appears as a lower class, uneducated black person who possesses supernatural or magical powers. These powers are used to save and transform disheveled, uncultured, lost, or broken whites (almost exclusively white men) into competent, successful, and content people within the context of the American myth of redemption and salvation.” Davis, who is always sublime, brings a great deal of intelligence, gravitas and heart to the role of Aibileen Clark, an older maid who has just lost her only son to a mill accident and has worked her whole life as maid and nanny, raising seventeen white children. When we meet her, Aibileen is mourning her son and working as the maid for Elizabeth Leefolt and her daughter Mae Mobley, a chubby, homely girl who is often neglected by her mother. Aibileen’s magical power is making young white children feel good about theyselves. Whenever Mae Mobley is feeling down, Aibileen chants, “You is kind. You is smart. You is important.” She showers the child with love and affection even while having to listen to young white women discuss black people as a subhuman species, deal with the indignity of using a bathroom outside of the main house, and while trying to cope with her grief. Magic, magic, magic. At the end of the movie, Aibileen offers her inspirational incantation to young Mae Mobley even after she is fired for an infraction she did not commit because that’s what the magical negro does—she uses her magic for her white charge and never for herself. Spencer is also formidable as Minny Jackson, the “sassy” maid (where sassy is code for uppity), who works, at the beginning of the movie, for the petty, vindictive and socially powerful Hilly Holbrook (Bryce Dallas Howard), president of the Junior League. Hilly Holbrook’s claim to fame is among other cruelties, proposing an initiative ordering all white homes to provide separate bathrooms for the “colored” help. When Minny is fired from that job, where she uses her negro magic to look after Hilly’s elderly mother, she goes to work for Celia Foote. The women of the Junior League in Jackson ostracize Celia because she was pregnant when she married, is considered white trash and has committed other petty social sins. Minny uses her mystical negritude to help Celia cope with several miscarriages and learn how to cook and at the end of the movie, the narrative leads you to believe that Celia indirectly empowers Minny to leave her abusive husband as if a woman of Minny’s strength and character couldn’t do that on her own. Then Celia cooks a whole spread for Minny and allows the help to sit at her dining room table just like white folk, aww shucks. Minny asks, “I’m not losing my job?” and Celia’s husband says, “You have a job here for the rest of your life.” Minny, of course, beams gratefully because a lifetime of servitude to a white family, doing backbreaking work for terrible pay is like winning the lottery and the best a black woman could hope for in the alternate science fiction universe of The Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) Yeah I was going to mention this. The fact that they are celebrating a movie about white people being racist that became popular because those same white people now feel like they solved racism. The issue there is that this movie itself is still pretty terrible with the stereotypes itself. It's like Crash in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:17 PM) Not to make this a debate about whether she worked hard or not, but 90 appearances in 15 years is an average of 2 per month. That's gotta be like a max of 2 weeks of work per month. Is that really a lot in the grand scheme of things? I did point out it was the perception of these celebrities and industry wizards who were applauding her work. Also, those were television and film projects. Many of the tv projects involved multiple episodes which would push that number over the 200s if not higher, but I digress. Clearly, those in Hollywood have a false sense of work, but I was basing it on that given they were the ones applauding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:18 PM) The book was also the same way (apparently, I didn't read it). You can read this long review that details a lot of the problems with the story, if you want! Essentially, the dialect is seriously overdone, the black characters are "Magic Negroes" that are used as plot devices to help white people, the black men are barely portrayed and then only in negative stereotypes. Some excerpts: That dog as your avatar could be classified as a magical negro. I'm not arguing any of the above with you. However, the film was entertaining (for a "wife wants to see this, oh what the hell" flick), and her performance was really, really good. The Help obviously didn't win Best Picture, so I don't really see the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) That dog as your avatar could be classified as a magical negro. I'm not arguing any of the above with you. However, the film was entertaining (for a "wife wants to see this, oh what the hell" flick), and her performance was really, really good. The Help obviously didn't win Best Picture, so I don't really see the point. That long review did say that it is a very well-acted film and could be entertaing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Buffalo Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:20 PM) The issue there is that this movie itself is still pretty terrible with the stereotypes itself. It's like Crash in that regard. "The Help" is as guilty of stereotyping the Southern white characters as it is the black characters. But, they're characters, so of course they're stereotypes. On the whole, it was a bad year for movies. The Help was overrated. Moneyball was a Disney sports picture (that happened to star Brad Pitt). The Artist was probably the biggest risk taker. I liked it, and it may be deserving of best picture, but I will never watch it again. And as far as the Oscars being a "circle jerk." It's no different than sports halls of fame that fans argue about and bemoan the inclusion/exclusion of certain players. In the end, why do we care at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) That long review did say that it is a very well-acted film and could be entertaing. That long review is actually kind of ridiculous. But, oh well, I guess that just because the author is a black man that means it's completely 100% dead on accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:17 PM) Not to make this a debate about whether she worked hard or not, but 90 appearances in 15 years is an average of 2 per month. That's gotta be like a max of 2 weeks of work per month. Is that really a lot in the grand scheme of things? you and Steve - you just have no idea about working in the entertainment industry so you should both keep your mouths' shut on the issue. You have no idea how hard it is. You have no idea the hours that go into it. You have no idea how many auditions she went to that she DIDN'T book - so to book two gigs per month means she has been working her ASS off. The gigs ARE NOT the work in this field. The work is the auditions. Day in and day out going in sometimes multiple times a day and having to prove that you're the right person for this gig - putting yourself on the line - is incredibly difficult and takes a LOT of work and preparation. You sometimes have to learn almost an entire role, just to be told they're going in a different direction. Let me explain it from a personal experience. Jersey Boys. Great show - y'all should see it. I'm perfect type-wise for the Frankie Valli track. They brought me in to what they call "Frankie Camp" where you spend a week learning the songs, the lines, the dances, the character - EVERYTHING. Then at the end of the week they say "alright guys you were great. Some of you will hear from us in a couple months, some in 2014, and this might be the end for some of you too". After pouring everything you've got into it, you have to move on and forget about it and go back to your day job and just keep on auditioning. And you tell me what we do isn't hard work? You have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:38 PM) That long review is actually kind of ridiculous. But, oh well, I guess that just because the author is a black man that means it's completely 100% dead on accurate. It's actually a black woman. Edited February 28, 2012 by StrangeSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:54 PM) It's actually a black woman. to be fair... white people caused racism and were the perpetrators... so didn't it HAVE to be white people that fixed it? (ie: changed laws, attitudes, etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:51 PM) you and Steve - you just have no idea about working in the entertainment industry so you should both keep your mouths' shut on the issue. You have no idea how hard it is. You have no idea the hours that go into it. You have no idea how many auditions she went to that she DIDN'T book - so to book two gigs per month means she has been working her ASS off. The gigs ARE NOT the work in this field. The work is the auditions. Day in and day out going in sometimes multiple times a day and having to prove that you're the right person for this gig - putting yourself on the line - is incredibly difficult and takes a LOT of work and preparation. You sometimes have to learn almost an entire role, just to be told they're going in a different direction. Let me explain it from a personal experience. Jersey Boys. Great show - y'all should see it. I'm perfect type-wise for the Frankie Valli track. They brought me in to what they call "Frankie Camp" where you spend a week learning the songs, the lines, the dances, the character - EVERYTHING. Then at the end of the week they say "alright guys you were great. Some of you will hear from us in a couple months, some in 2014, and this might be the end for some of you too". After pouring everything you've got into it, you have to move on and forget about it and go back to your day job and just keep on auditioning. And you tell me what we do isn't hard work? You have no idea. I agree. I have no idea. I believe I stated that multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:55 PM) to be fair... white people caused racism and were the perpetrators... so didn't it HAVE to be white people that fixed it? (ie: changed laws, attitudes, etc) jesus christ, no. Edited February 28, 2012 by StrangeSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) jesus christ, no. LOL. This response absolutely sums up my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 PS CHRIST WAS WHITE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:58 PM) jesus christ, no. .... obviously the civil rights movement was started by black people, but the lawmakers at the time were white... the ones to changed laws... were white... to stop racism, white people had to stop being racist... thus ending racism... this making sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 this is turning into a silly argument. and we should probably stop it now. I'm not racist, you're not racist, none of us are racist. the civil rights movement was a great thing led by amazing people and lets just leave it at that. aaaaaand back to the oscars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:03 PM) aaaaaand back to the oscars. They were terrible this year. I mean, blackface. Oh wait, now we're back to racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) PS CHRIST WAS WHITE (Can't tell if serious but probably untrue). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:59 PM) LOL. This response absolutely sums up my thoughts. Btw I wanted to clarify that my criticism was directed at self-righteous hollywood assholes, not anyone who enjoyed the film. It was entertaining and had some great performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think racism stated before white people were in power. Those damn Egyptians were always keeping down the "others" (see Ten Commandments) and Im pretty sure that in places like Babylon, Persia, etc had forms of racism. Off topic, woooooooooooooooooooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 04:51 PM) you and Steve - you just have no idea about working in the entertainment industry so you should both keep your mouths' shut on the issue. You have no idea how hard it is. You have no idea the hours that go into it. You have no idea how many auditions she went to that she DIDN'T book - so to book two gigs per month means she has been working her ASS off. The gigs ARE NOT the work in this field. The work is the auditions. Day in and day out going in sometimes multiple times a day and having to prove that you're the right person for this gig - putting yourself on the line - is incredibly difficult and takes a LOT of work and preparation. You sometimes have to learn almost an entire role, just to be told they're going in a different direction. Let me explain it from a personal experience. Jersey Boys. Great show - y'all should see it. I'm perfect type-wise for the Frankie Valli track. They brought me in to what they call "Frankie Camp" where you spend a week learning the songs, the lines, the dances, the character - EVERYTHING. Then at the end of the week they say "alright guys you were great. Some of you will hear from us in a couple months, some in 2014, and this might be the end for some of you too". After pouring everything you've got into it, you have to move on and forget about it and go back to your day job and just keep on auditioning. And you tell me what we do isn't hard work? You have no idea. I said I didn't want to debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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