The Ginger Kid Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 03:07 PM) I don't think it is. He's pitched a total of 290 innings, period, with no high school or college background beforehand. He's barely reached double-A ball, only 22 innings at that level. He only threw 130 innings last year, and that was a jump up from 80 the year beforehand, so 150 total would still be being careful, and that's a full AA season. I really can't see any situation, no matter how much he dominates, where I'm going to want him seeing the bigs this year. If he rips up AA ball in the first half and then gets promoted and then rips up AAA for another 2 months, he's going to be right at what should be his innings limit, where actually having him make a start or two seems excessively risky and overkill. If as I suspect the Tigers are less than what many think they will be, and the Sox are more than what most think they will be, then why wouldn't you turn to someone who's arguably the #1 starting pitching prospect in the organization if he could make a contribution? These sort of blanket declarations baffle me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 09:02 PM) If as I suspect the Tigers are less than what many think they will be, and the Sox are more than what most think they will be, then why wouldn't you turn to someone who's arguably the #1 starting pitching prospect in the organization if he could make a contribution? These sort of blanket declarations baffle me. If we're in a position where Molina needs to save the big league roster, then we're not that good. Molina should be behind Stewart, Axelrod, Castro, and maybe others in terms of being the replacement guy. I know he's special, but Stras has a hard 170 or so inning limit they said they'd enforce even if they were right there for the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 09:02 PM) If as I suspect the Tigers are less than what many think they will be, and the Sox are more than what most think they will be, then why wouldn't you turn to someone who's arguably the #1 starting pitching prospect in the organization if he could make a contribution? These sort of blanket declarations baffle me. The point is there's UNLIKELY to be any reason to rush Molina this year, other than in overreaction by KW to justify the trade for Santos as quickly as possible. There SHOULDN'T be any connection, but KW will look like a jackass if Santos is on the AL All-Star team and Molina is struggling in the transition to AA ball. In the end, rushing Santos isn't go to help at all...we have Santiago, Leesman (maybe), Axelrod, Castro, Petricka and not to mention Josh Stewart who should be provided opportunities to show what they can do before we're "forced" to go to Molina. Really, there should be no scenario where we absolutely HAVE to use Molina in 2012. Didn't KW learn from the Hudson/Holmberg disaster? I hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 08:05 PM) If we're in a position where Molina needs to save the big league roster, then we're not that good. Molina should be behind Stewart, Axelrod, Castro, and maybe others in terms of being the replacement guy. I know he's special, but Stras has a hard 170 or so inning limit they said they'd enforce even if they were right there for the division. We are on the same page. There is really no reason for this kid to be rushed. There are plenty of other filler arms that should be called up instead to throw what will largely be irrelevant innings in 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 08:08 PM) In the end, rushing Santos isn't go to help at all...we have Santiago, Leesman (maybe), Axelrod, Castro, Petricka and not to mention Josh Stewart who should be provided opportunities to show what they can do before we're "forced" to go to Molina. I hope so. Petricka is further away than Molina. Otherwise I agree. Edited February 29, 2012 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 08:50 PM) Petricka is further away than Molina. Otherwise I agree. Petricka has about 258 innings pitched as a starter over the last 3 years (including his 2nd year at Indiana State) and 332 overall. My feeling is that they would be more likely to "sacrifice" Petricka at the major league level (if they needed spot starts down the stretch in August and September) rather than Molina. In terms of development, they're in pretty similar areas, although if you include 2 years of university and a four year (total) history of starting, Petricka might be a tick or two ahead overall. But I agree in general that along with Rienzo to a lesser extent, there's no need to rush any of those 3 guys (Molina/Petricka/Rienzo). With Humber, Stewart, Castro, Santiago and Axelrod, we've got at least 5 guys for the final spot in the rotation. Then you've got other guys like Heath, Bruney, Leesman, (Harrell/Torres). etc., that can be thrown out there once or twice, in a DJ Carrasco or Tony Pena emergency mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 05:31 PM) If you're in a situation like last year, where you're doing everything possible to win, then fine, burn the guy in the bullpen like we did with Sale. But if we have time with a guy like Molina (and we do), there's zero reason to start all the arbitration clocks on him right now. He's incredibly raw, he's thrown probably fewer innings in his life than some guys have done in high school, and he's never been above AA. If he earns it, then we can talk next year about a rotation spot early in the season, even better after the super 2 deadline. There is zero reason to push this guy upwards aggressively if we go into this season having cut $25 million from the roster and traded away guys like we did. Save the service time and have him ready to go when he arrives. What if he has nothing left to prove at the minor league level come July/August? Why keep him there if Sale needs the time off? If 2012 is about the kids, then give the kids who earn it a shot. I'd absolutely love it if he forced a call up and at the same time Peavy has value to a contending team; that's as good as it gets for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Last year chanting "all in" worked so well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 28, 2012 -> 08:05 PM) If we're in a position where Molina needs to save the big league roster, then we're not that good. Molina should be behind Stewart, Axelrod, Castro, and maybe others in terms of being the replacement guy. I know he's special, but Stras has a hard 170 or so inning limit they said they'd enforce even if they were right there for the division. Or Molina is as good as Kenny and Paddy think he is. There really isn't anyone who thinks Stewart and Axelrod at their peak are anything but back of the rotation guys. Castro is also a mixed bag. He was highly regarded, but he also flopped last year. Molina could easily pass them all for his ceiling alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 29, 2012 -> 07:27 AM) Or Molina is as good as Kenny and Paddy think he is. There really isn't anyone who thinks Stewart and Axelrod at their peak are anything but back of the rotation guys. Castro is also a mixed bag. He was highly regarded, but he also flopped last year. Molina could easily pass them all for his ceiling alone. That's all certainly true...but it still doesn't mean that needing Molina to be the one to fill a role this year isn't a huge disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 29, 2012 -> 07:39 AM) That's all certainly true...but it still doesn't mean that needing Molina to be the one to fill a role this year isn't a huge disaster. It also doesn't mean it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 The best time to be a fan is when the team is about to be (possibly) really good. If we're at that point at the end of the year... no matter the record, that's a huge step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Feb 29, 2012 -> 11:51 AM) The best time to be a fan is when the team is about to be (possibly) really good. If we're at that point at the end of the year... no matter the record, that's a huge step forward. I would imagine that the best time to be a fan is when the team is already really good, like when they've just won a World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Feb 29, 2012 -> 11:51 AM) The best time to be a fan is when the team is about to be (possibly) really good. If we're at that point at the end of the year... no matter the record, that's a huge step forward. Then Royals fans must have had the time of their lives for the past few seasons. I would have to disagree and say the best time to be a fan is when your team is really good, like October 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Feb 29, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) I would imagine that the best time to be a fan is when the team is already really good, like when they've just won a World Series. Nah, making the rise from obscurity to the top is like nothing in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 29, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) Nah, making the rise from obscurity to the top is like nothing in sports. Well, the best example we've got in MLB would be the 2008 Rays, right? And the 2nd best might be the bankrupt to AL champ Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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