Syria

[Balta1701]

No now what do congressional Democrats do?

My vote would be up for grabs, but I would want to see a plan on my desk that is assessed to make a strong positive impact in the region.

[Balta1701]

Here is the national security team meeting today to discuss bombing Syria:

 

The question...do you ignore everyone else and only listen to what Hagel says or do you ignore everything Hagel says based on his attire?

[southsider2k5]

Here is the national security team meeting today to discuss bombing Syria:

 

The question...do you ignore everyone else and only listen to what Hagel says or do you ignore everything Hagel says based on his attire?

 

Looking at that picture the question is probably more like Chinese or Pizza.

[greg775]

Bear with me here. I like the fact Obama is going to ask Congress about this issue, but on the other hand I don't like what I heard on the radio today from his mouth.

Yes, he seemed like a "weak" leader to me.

 

If Obama wants to f***ing send bombers to send a message, then stick to your guns, Obama and be mean and forceful with your quotes/comments.

What I heard today was a guy kind of put it on Congress to decide. He was all calm and meek-sounding if that's the word.

I think Obama knows damn well Congress will NEVER vote to bomb Syria. There's no way that many men and women will vote for an aggressive act. No fricking way. By putting it on them he's washed his hands of the matter, so to speak.

 

Now if he was a passionate leader ... maybe they'd take his lead and do it. If he was a passionate leader, maybe he could get something passed once in a while. They will not vote for bombings IMO. No way.

 

I don't like Obama's overall body of work and you know what, if he could run again he'd win again. And again and again.

This country is the greatest in the world, but baffles me big time at times.

 

The picture of that little kid dying looking at the blood on his hands is the saddest picture of all time.

It is a sign of what may be in store for us all in the future. More senseless killings and someday chemical weapons really really really being a problem all around the world.

Edited September 1, 2013 by greg775

[Soxbadger]

I know this is completely random, but what else can Obama do? Everyone wants to pass the buck, no one wants to make the hard decisions. He knows that if he goes into Syria without congressional support and it goes sideways, thats his legacy.I

 

 

People can call me ignorant, optimistic, whatever. Ive been here for 10 years, and Ill just say, I dont think I have all the answers, but Im always willing to have a discussion about why something should be the answer. And as long as we as people can keep doing that, I think that history will judge us kindly. But thats going to take every one of us dropping something at the door, and moving towards consensus.

 

We are all to similar to let our petty differences get in the way. I just have to believe that if people are given freedom, if people are given the opportunity to learn and think for themselves, they will ultimately choose good.

 

So to wrap it up, no matter what someone may say, insult me, think of me, Id like to hope that if we actually met, theyd realize that there is a lot of thought that goes behind what I say, and maybe im idealistic, but I feel like the problem is at some point we stopped dreaming. Ha irony with MLKs speech but, I still believe there is freer, I still believe there is better, and I just hope that my life, which in terms of existence is nothing more than the smallest pebble on the largest beach, results in more good than bad.

 

And like I said thats tangential, but that really is my philosophy. And while many times Ill say the US cant intervene, there are sometimes (chemical weapons), where we have to stand against it. Even if the rest of the world says no. Sometimes you have to jump off the bridge, because I hope that if one day our backs were against the wall, that someone else would lend me a hand.

 

 

[Marty34]

I know this is completely random, but what else can Obama do?

 

Make a case to the public of why it's in the United States best interests to act militarily against Syria. Americans are war weary and saying it's morally the right thing to do is not enough.

[Balta1701]

Link, appeared in NYT today.

[Quin]

Bear with me here. I like the fact Obama is going to ask Congress about this issue, but on the other hand I don't like what I heard on the radio today from his mouth.

Yes, he seemed like a "weak" leader to me.

 

If Obama wants to f***ing send bombers to send a message, then stick to your guns, Obama and be mean and forceful with your quotes/comments.

What I heard today was a guy kind of put it on Congress to decide. He was all calm and meek-sounding if that's the word.

I think Obama knows damn well Congress will NEVER vote to bomb Syria. There's no way that many men and women will vote for an aggressive act. No fricking way. By putting it on them he's washed his hands of the matter, so to speak.

 

Now if he was a passionate leader ... maybe they'd take his lead and do it. If he was a passionate leader, maybe he could get something passed once in a while. They will not vote for bombings IMO. No way.

 

I don't like Obama's overall body of work and you know what, if he could run again he'd win again. And again and again.

This country is the greatest in the world, but baffles me big time at times.

 

The picture of that little kid dying looking at the blood on his hands is the saddest picture of all time.

It is a sign of what may be in store for us all in the future. More senseless killings and someday chemical weapons really really really being a problem all around the world.

 

Joseph Weisenthal @TheStalwart

 

YESTERDAY'S CW: Imperial President refusing to consult Congress. TODAY'S CW: Weak President playing politics, making US look weak to world.

 

 

[DukeNukeEm]

I know this is completely random, but what else can Obama do? Everyone wants to pass the buck, no one wants to make the hard decisions. He knows that if he goes into Syria without congressional support and it goes sideways, thats his legacy.

I don't give a flying crap about his legacy. Nor should you, he's a public official elected to serve not worry about his legacy. Goddamn get his nits out of your mouth.

We are all to similar to let our petty differences get in the way. I just have to believe that if people are given freedom, if people are given the opportunity to learn and think for themselves, they will ultimately choose good.

These people are not similar to us. If you need evidence look no further than their charred remains of a country. They are nothing like us, and the assertion that they even could be is insulting. Are humans like pigs? I guess a little, we're both mammals and both eat just about anything... but one is a filthy disgusting animal that's real purpose is slaughter while the other has figured out how to go to the moon. Syrians and Americans are not equals, we don't "share" anything. They are an inferior culture.

 

You have to understand that to understand why all the freedom and choice they've already been exposed to has just made them more and more savage. They're only hope is to be controlled, but that's an expensive proposition and its not like we really get anything out of it anyways.

[Reddy]

I don't give a flying crap about his legacy. Nor should you, he's a public official elected to serve not worry about his legacy. Goddamn get his nits out of your mouth.

 

These people are not similar to us. If you need evidence look no further than their charred remains of a country. They are nothing like us, and the assertion that they even could be is insulting. Are humans like pigs? I guess a little, we're both mammals and both eat just about anything... but one is a filthy disgusting animal that's real purpose is slaughter while the other has figured out how to go to the moon. Syrians and Americans are not equals, we don't "share" anything. They are an inferior culture.

 

You have to understand that to understand why all the freedom and choice they've already been exposed to has just made them more and more savage. They're only hope is to be controlled, but that's an expensive proposition and its not like we really get anything out of it anyways.

 

based on the above, I'm inclined to disagree with you.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Link, appeared in NYT today.

 

Racist.

[Texsox]

Duke, you assert they are an inferior culture. In what areas are they inferior? From your argument it seems you are replying they are somehow less human than Americans. Are we smarter than them? Stronger? And is that just naturally born Americans or are our immigrants included? I can think of so many questions, is this evolutionary? Selected breeding? How did humans in America become superior to humans in other parts of the world?

[Texsox]

Here is the national security team meeting today to discuss bombing Syria:

 

The question...do you ignore everyone else and only listen to what Hagel says or do you ignore everything Hagel says based on his attire?

 

s***, and I was having a hard time deciding what to have for dinner. I truly do not believe I would want to be at that table.

[mr_genius]

Mentally unstable old man (McCain) plays video poker during Syria hearing. He really needs to be voted out.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-p...2c-c0b0d9d4fe0a

[EvilMonkey]

Mentally unstable old man (McCain) plays video poker during Syria hearing. He really needs to be voted out.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-p...2c-c0b0d9d4fe0a

I hate McCain, but do you think he was the only one not paying attention at various points throughout? I bet there were many tweeting, checking email and so on.

[southsider2k5]

I hate McCain, but do you think he was the only one not paying attention at various points throughout? I bet there were many tweeting, checking email and so on.

 

This is what suffices for debate now a days.

[cabiness42]

Mentally unstable old man (McCain) plays video poker during Syria hearing. He really needs to be voted out.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-p...2c-c0b0d9d4fe0a

 

McCain is such a f***ing idiot! Everybody knows you shouldn't play QJ offsuit out of position.

 

[Balta1701]

McCain will oppose the Senate War resolution because it's not murdery enough.

[Texsox]

I agree with Alpha on this one. I'll also add, what is said in open meetings like this is window dressing. The real debate is behind the scenes, it is one on one. I doubt any veteran Washington politico was surprised by any of the Q&A. It's a formula they are going through.

 

At the worse, in my book, it shows that McCain, like many, has already made up his mind.

[Soxbadger]

it shows that McCain, like many, has already made up his mind.

 

Exactly.

 

And Duke the people of Syria (at least Id like to think) are no different than us. They want the same things as us.

 

I dont really believe in religion or any of that, but once in a while it does contain a few really important messages. And the one of the oldest is that others suffering is our suffering, and that we should never forget that at one point we have all suffered and because we have suffered, we should try and prevent others from the same type of suffering.

 

And maybe there are people there who want to kill me for stupid reasons. That doesnt mean I sink to their level, it means I try and lift them to mine.

[Balta1701]

And maybe there are people there who want to kill me for stupid reasons. That doesnt mean I sink to their level, it means I try and lift them to mine.

Your level is "collateral damage"?

[Soxbadger]

Your level is "collateral damage"?

 

Yeah I want innocent people to die.

 

/rolls eyes

 

Unlike you Balta I accept that sometimes bad things happen as a consequence of trying to do something good. But just because a bad thing MAY happen, doesnt mean I let other bad things keep happening out of fear.

 

You keep acting as if people arent dying right now, but they are. You cant just wave your hand and pretend that doesnt exist, so to turn a phrase.

 

Your level is "just let them die, who cares about chemical warfare."

 

Anyone can make a catchy insulting 1 sentence quip. Perhaps we should go beyond that and we can actually discuss why the use of chemical weapons is such a big deal.

 

[Balta1701]

You keep acting as if people arent dying right now, but they are. You cant just wave your hand and pretend that doesnt exist, so to turn a phrase.

However...this is exactly what you continually do with the consequences of bombing. Wave your hand and pretend they don't exist.

[Soxbadger]

However...this is exactly what you continually do with the consequences of bombing. Wave your hand and pretend they don't exist.

 

No actually it isnt. In every single post I concede that there will be consequences to any type of military intervention.

 

You just keep hammering on it, when every reasonable person already has accounted for this. Yet you dont ever seem to concede that inaction will lead to more deaths as well.

 

Like I said, Id rather try than juts sit on the sidelines afraid.

[Balta1701]

No actually it isnt. In every single post I concede that there will be consequences to any type of military intervention.

 

You just keep hammering on it, when every reasonable person already has accounted for this. Yet you dont ever seem to concede that inaction will lead to more deaths as well.

 

Like I said, Id rather try than juts sit on the sidelines afraid.

You're right I keep hammering on it because as soon as the excitement of the missiles is off the front page the disasters we've unleashed get ignored.

 

Libya, for example, the great triumph of this type of intervention, is a complete clusterf*** right now. The country is being torn apart, ruled by warlords, and arms from the Libyan army are going to supply an entire generation of wars and terrorist attacks throughout North Africa because they've gone completely out of control. There are civil wars brewing all over North Africa supplied by those weapons.

 

The last time we did this, the air war killed a ton of people, not just the combatants but a lot of other people, and the result has been thousands of small massacres replacing the one big massacre we tried to avoid. And the consequences on the ground, the piles of dead bodies from the air campaign, are literally ignored because there's no one there to cover them.