Meat is the New Tobacco

[Steve9347]

Food for thought.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-fresto...20and%20Fitness

 

For many years, tobacco companies were able to maintain a strong pro-tobacco façade. Smoking focuses the mind. It's good for you (doctors smoke!). It's great for weight loss. It's sexy. It's cool. The tobacco industry spent big bucks to keep these ideas in the mind of the public for as long as it could.

 

And for many years after the lethal effects were universally known and undeniable, some of our nation's smartest and most successful businessmen continued to believe, because it was in their interest to believe, that "nicotine is not addictive." (Watch the seven most powerful tobacco executives of 1994 make exactly that statement, under oath, to Congress -- not even a decade ago.)

 

I was reminded of how far tobacco has fallen reading the New York Times magazine interview with perhaps the most successful screenplay writer in history, Joe Eszterhas, who has lost 80 percent of his larynx to tobacco, and has apologized for his glamorization of smoking in such films as Basic Instinct.

 

When I think about the effect of animal products on human health, I'm reminded of how quickly we've done a national about face on tobacco, and I look forward to the day when the Times magazine has a similar apology from someone who promoted animal products -- because the evidence is in and it continues to grow: Animal products kill a lot more Americans than tobacco does.

 

The West's three biggest killers -- heart disease, cancer, and stroke -- are linked to excessive animal product consumption, and vegetarians have much lower risks of all three. Vegetarians also have a fraction of the obesity and diabetes rates of the general population -- of course, both diseases are at epidemic levels and are only getting worse.

 

But much more important than the vegetarian community's general statistics are what can be done with the right vegetarian diet: For some years now, doctors have been not just preventing, but even reversing, heart disease using a low-fat vegetarian diet.

 

That's right -- the disease that kills almost as many Americans as everything else combined can be not just prevented, but reversed, with a low fat plant-based diet, as documented by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn in Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease.

 

There's a link from animal product consumption to our country's No. 2 killer, too: According to the American Institute for Cancer Research, about as much cancer could be prevented by diet and exercise as is caused by smoking -- and you know what's causing all that cancer? It's not whole grains, legumes, fruits, or vegetables. Dr. T. Colin Campbell has documented the link between cancer and animal products.

 

There's a lot of money in the meat industry, just like there's a lot of money in big tobacco. For many years, the tobacco establishment pointed to elderly smokers like George Burns and millions of others as proof that their very-natural product could not be harmful. Even long-distance runners and members of the military could be found smoking a cigarette at the end of a long run or intense drill.

 

Similarly, today the meat industry points to the fact that there are an awful lot of old meat-eaters, conveniently ignoring our sky-high heart disease and cancer rates, as well as our ballooning rates of obesity and diabetes, all of which are linked to their products.

 

Bill Clinton went on what he was told was a healthy diet after his emergency quadruple-bypass in 2004, and yet he didn't lose weight or feel better, and he required follow-up surgery in 2010. After that surgery, he was introduced to the work of Dr. Esselystyn and Dr. Campbell, and he went vegan -- which allowed him to lose 24 pounds in a year and feel better than ever, as he discusses with Wolf Blitzer on CNN.

 

Eszterhas wrote in his tobacco mea culpa, "My hands are bloody; so are Hollywood's. My cancer has caused me to attempt to cleanse mine. I don't wish my fate upon anyone in Hollywood, but I beg that Hollywood stop imposing it upon millions of others."

 

He could just as easily have been writing about animal foods, which is why I was delighted to read Mark Bittman's recent New York Times column in which he noted that meat consumption is down more than 10 percent since 2007. It seems that more and more people are catching on to the perils of animal foods.

 

In large part, that's thanks to the work of Doctors Esslestyn and Campbell, so I've also been delighted by the success of the film "Forks Over Knives," an entertaining documentary that chronicles the success of their work. Ellen and Oprah have both plugged the movie, but perhaps even more importantly, Dr. Sanjay Gupta called Forks Over Knives "a great film," and Dr. Mehmet Oz said to his fans, "I loved it and I need all of you to see it."

 

It may be awhile before eating a chicken wing is seen, as it should be, as the heath equivalent of smoking a cigarette -- the meat industry is still more powerful than tobacco has ever been, and most of the medical establishment is not yet as nutrition-focused as progressive scientists and doctors like T. Colin Campbell and Dean Ornish.

 

But the best research clearly points in that direction, and more and more, I'm seeing cause for optimism.

[EvilMonkey]

The nanny-staters always have to have a boogyman. Can't mind their own business, got to get all up in everyone else's. F*ck off, I will eat a steak if I want to, and enjoy it. My buffalo burger for lunch Friday was awesome. And a bone to the vegheads, I had bacon-wrapped asparagas over the weekend. Mmmmmmm, bacon.

[Reddy]

The nanny-staters always have to have a boogyman. Can't mind their own business, got to get all up in everyone else's. F*ck off, I will eat a steak if I want to, and enjoy it. My buffalo burger for lunch Friday was awesome. And a bone to the vegheads, I had bacon-wrapped asparagas over the weekend. Mmmmmmm, bacon.

buffalo's actually a lot better for you than beef.

[BigSqwert]

The nanny-staters always have to have a boogyman. Can't mind their own business, got to get all up in everyone else's. F*ck off, I will eat a steak if I want to, and enjoy it. My buffalo burger for lunch Friday was awesome. And a bone to the vegheads, I had bacon-wrapped asparagas over the weekend. Mmmmmmm, bacon.

Translation: "I have nothing to refute what you've posted so I'll lower the level of discourse by making obnoxious comments."

[Steve9347]

The nanny-staters always have to have a boogyman. Can't mind their own business, got to get all up in everyone else's. F*ck off, I will eat a steak if I want to, and enjoy it. My buffalo burger for lunch Friday was awesome. And a bone to the vegheads, I had bacon-wrapped asparagas over the weekend. Mmmmmmm, bacon.

The fear of people in hearing facts about what they eat is so evident. Why is the idea of not eating meat something that caused you to type "f*** off"?

 

Nothing in that article said anything about people being bad for eating meat. It's all about the health effects.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Steve9347

[StrangeSox]

*obligatory "meat smoking" joke*

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't see a viable parallel here. Humans have eaten meat for eons, and it has a lot of positives. In fact, when eaten as part of a balacned diet, it is quite good for you, depending on what you have and how often. Plus, um, meat is not exactly addictive.

 

They just aren't remotely alike.

 

That all said, I've been saying for a while now, cigarettes are a much greater risk to public health (and finance) than marijuana, and probably worse than alcohol as well. So I have no issue with them being taxed and regulated heavily, as an offset to the public purse to pay for the effects of it.

 

 

 

[Steve9347]

Plus, um, meat is not exactly addictive.

That's actually incorrect, but I digress.

[iamshack]

The degree to which our diets consist of highly processed food is the larger concern, IMHO.

[GoSox05]

They are projecting that 50% of this country is going to be obese in 20 years.

 

 

[G&T]

This article does nothing to further the discourse nor does it add anything new. It does nothing to say "all meat will kill you" when that is objectively not true. Tell me what it is about meat that causes cancer. I don't doubt that high fat, high calorie, high sodium diets will kill people, but why is chicken equal to beef or to pork or to turkey when they are all very different?

 

The reality isn't that meat kills, it's that salt covered meat deep fried in fat, served with fried potatoes and covered in sugar/salt laden sauces kill. That cannot be compared to roast chicken in herbs served with vegetables (a balanced meal).

[NorthSideSox72]

That's actually incorrect, but I digress.

 

LOL, OK. Prove that.

 

But this:

 

The degree to which our diets consist of highly processed food is the larger concern, IMHO.

 

Is more what leads to this:

 

They are projecting that 50% of this country is going to be obese in 20 years.

 

... than eating meat.

 

Also, I love this post:

 

This article does nothing to further the discourse nor does it add anything new. It does nothing to say "all meat will kill you" when that is objectively not true. Tell me what it is about meat that causes cancer. I don't doubt that high fat, high calorie, high sodium diets will kill people, but why is chicken equal to beef or to pork or to turkey when they are all very different?

 

The reality isn't that meat kills, it's that salt covered meat deep fried in fat, served with fried potatoes and covered in sugar/salt laden sauces kill. That cannot be compared to roast chicken in herbs served with vegetables (a balanced meal).

 

[iamshack]

This article does nothing to further the discourse nor does it add anything new. It does nothing to say "all meat will kill you" when that is objectively not true. Tell me what it is about meat that causes cancer. I don't doubt that high fat, high calorie, high sodium diets will kill people, but why is chicken equal to beef or to pork or to turkey when they are all very different?

 

The reality isn't that meat kills, it's that salt covered meat deep fried in fat, served with fried potatoes and covered in sugar/salt laden sauces kill. That cannot be compared to roast chicken in herbs served with vegetables (a balanced meal).

Agreed.

 

There are studies which claim to show that eating grilled meats on a very regular basis can coincide with cancer increases, but I'm not sure of the validity of those claims.

[StrangeSox]

You can subsist entirely on potatoes and milk.

 

The level of meat consumption is abnormal.

[iamshack]

You can subsist entirely on potatoes and milk.

 

The level of meat consumption is abnormal.

One can subsist on a lot of things.

 

The question is what is the optimal diet for the average modern person?

 

Some nutritionists are claiming that animal fat is actually the optimal fuel for active humans, rather than carbohydrates.

 

The problem is most people in developed countries tend to eat highly processed foods and get little or no exercise, which is a recipe for all kinds of cancers and heart problems.

 

This doesn't even begin to get into the question of what is the optimal food for our population, considering our total resource portfolio.

Edited March 6, 2012 by iamshack

[DukeNukeEm]

I just dont care anymore whats supposedly good and bad for me. I live in the city of Chicago, I'm sure the air pollution has already tacked years off my life; but like everything else I'm just not going to sit in my apartment not doing things. I figure I dont do heroin, I consume alcohol reasonably, eat meat and I maybe have 5 or 6 cigarettes a day. If really that's all it takes to have me bedridden with no throat at the age of 50 then f*** this world and everyone in it.

Edited March 6, 2012 by DukeNukeEm

[Rex Kickass]

For all the talk that vegetarians have almost no issues with the diseases discussed above, this thread forgets the fact that people who eat a limited amount of meat (about 3 servings weekly) have the same health benefits.

 

There are legitimate health benefits to limiting meat consumption, both ecologically and medically. But the difference between limiting and eliminating altogether are pretty small, actually.

[StrangeSox]

Not morally, though.

[Balta1701]

They are projecting that 50% of this country is going to be obese in 20 years.

Isn't there data showing that the obesity rate has actually finally leveled off over the past few years?

 

Edit: Yes.

In 2010, about a third (35.7%) of U.S. adults, or almost 78 million people, were obese. That is up from 30.5% in 2000 but not significantly different statistically from 33.7% in 2008.

 

"The prevalence of obesity has been flat in recent years, but there has been a small increase in the last decade, particularly among men and boys," says Cynthia Ogden, an epidemiologist with the National Center for Health Statistics, part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Could be a functionof the recession or could be a legitimate pattern, given the moves towards improving food quality and diet (espeically in schools).

[iamshack]

Isn't there data showing that the obesity rate has actually finally leveled off over the past few years?

 

Edit: Yes.

Could be a functionof the recession or could be a legitimate pattern, given the moves towards improving food quality and diet (espeically in schools).

I think there is a legitimate increase in exercise habits in many urban areas as well. It seems to me that a lot more people are working out at least somewhat regularly now than was the case in 2000 or even 2005, but you'll probably dig up some data to refute that observation

[NorthSideSox72]

You can subsist entirely on potatoes and milk.

 

The level of meat consumption is abnormal.

I can subsist on twinkies too. I fail to see how that is relevant to the discussion.

 

The level of meat consumption is not "abnormal". Historically, humans had diets ranging from fully vegetarian all the way to fully carnivorous and usually various levels between, based on what their environment could readily provide. There is no "normal" or "abnormal" on the scale of how much meat vs vegetable matter people consume.

 

[Texsox]

Nanny Staters. Interesting point. Would the U.S. be better or worse off if societal norms pushed people towards a healthier diet and exercise or had more of a we don't care what you do attitude?

 

Let's suppose that a healthier workforce helps the U.S. to better compete in economic and social wars. Is it the role of the government then to promote what is in the country's best interest?

[Jenksismyhero]

I can subsist on twinkies too. I fail to see how that is relevant to the discussion.

 

The level of meat consumption is not "abnormal". Historically, humans had diets ranging from fully vegetarian all the way to fully carnivorous and usually various levels between, based on what their environment could readily provide. There is no "normal" or "abnormal" on the scale of how much meat vs vegetable matter people consume.

 

Wasn't their some crazy stat that the guys on the Lewis and Clark expedition ate like 20k calories a day and like 95% of that was meat.

 

I don't think there's a one right answer for something like diet. It depends on the person and their lifestyle.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Nanny Staters. Interesting point. Would the U.S. be better or worse off if societal norms pushed people towards a healthier diet and exercise or had more of a we don't care what you do attitude?

 

Let's suppose that a healthier workforce helps the U.S. to better compete in economic and social wars. Is it the role of the government then to promote what is in the country's best interest?

It's worth noting Tex that the government has many options here. It isn't limited to making it illegal to eat meat...it could, instead, end the massive subsidies that it gives to encourage overproduction of meat products, and perhaps even regulate/tax the enormous amounts of pollution and greenhouse gases given off by those facilities...thus effectively allowing people to make a fair determination as to what fraction of their caloric intake should be meat based on market prices.

[Texsox]

The government could require nutritional information and diet information on all packages.