bigruss Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Can we move on from this debate back to head coach candidates. Hell I'd rather hear "Illinois fans always complaign bout dem refs!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) Right because (imo) rich and from the North Shore were other ways of describing "Hes a white guy". Lets say it was Michael Jordan for the head coaching job of Illinois, would you say "Hes rich and from the North Shore" therefore he cant connect? In my opinion the implication was pretty clear. I guess being from the North Shore, when I hear those phrases, I immediately think of the stereotype, and lets just say it doesnt involve a rainbow of races. That's not what I said (or at least meant to say) My point was that he's a cake eater. Doesn't matter if its chocolate or vanilla. Self, Calipari, etc. are self-made men. It was never "simply" about race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Then which head coach do you think is a good idea? As I said, Shaka Smart came from Oregon, Wisconsin, he most likely has never missed a meal in his life, he grew up in a middle class area and has no connection at all to Chicago. Just so you know here is Shaka's High School: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_High_S...%28Wisconsin%29 The student body of Oregon High School, with 1233 students, is 94 percent white students, with the next highest ethnicity being Hispanic and African American at 2 percent each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) That's not what I said (or at least meant to say) My point was that he's a cake eater. Doesn't matter if its chocolate or vanilla. Self, Calipari, etc. are self-made men. It was never "simply" about race. Self - Played D-1 basketball at OK St., then served as assistant at KU & Ok St., before getting a head coaching job Calipari - Played ball at UNC-Wilmington & Clarion St., then served as assistant at KU & Pitt, before getting a HC job Collins - Played ball at Duke, then served as assistant in WNBA & Seton Hall & Duke, now looking for a HC job How are Self & Calipari any more self-made than Collins? You act like Collins never played basketball, he was Mr. Basketball in Illinois Edited March 21, 2012 by LittleHurt05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) Then which head coach do you think is a good idea? As I said, Shaka Smart came from Oregon, Wisconsin, he most likely has never missed a meal in his life, he grew up in a middle class area and has no connection at all to Chicago. Just so you know here is Shaka's High School: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_High_S...%28Wisconsin%29 Somebody with head coaching experience, for one. When Guenther hired Lon Kruger, he made a big deal of saying he was looking for someone who had been to the Final Four. Self had taken Tulsa to the Elite 8. Weber SIU to the Sweet Sixteen. That bar dropped with each of his hires. I'd like to see it raised again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 02:40 PM) Self - Played D-1 basketball at OK St., then served as assistant at KU & Ok St., before getting a head coaching job Calipari - Played ball at UNC-Wilmington & Clarion St., then served as assistant at KU & Pitt, before getting a HC job Collins - Played ball at Duke, then served as assistant in WNBA & Seton Hall & Duke, now looking for a HC job How are Self & Calipari any more self-made than Collins? You act like Collins never played basketball, he was Mr. Basketball in Illinois Well, I assume that neither Self nor Calipari's parents were millionaires, but that's just an assumption on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Fair enough, I dont necessarily agree that tournament success is the most important indicator, but we all have our rationales. The biggest concern about Collins would be no coaching experience, that being said, sometimes you have to go out on a limb. I do not know what IL will do, I know what I would do (go after a coach who is already at a high major), but I just really dont like Frank Martin. The last 2 years his team has lost to Wisconsin, and i really just have nothing good to say about his coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 02:47 PM) Well, I assume that neither Self nor Calipari's parents were millionaires, but that's just an assumption on my part. OK, but it's not like he hasn't worked for anything and hasn't followed the same path other coaches have. Plus, the fact that his dad still works in the NBA would actually be a plus with some recruits who have pro aspirations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Maybe I'm in the minority here, but while I would like someone who can bring in the Jabbari Parker's of the world, aren't we actually looking for the next Bill Self here? Self, off the top of my head, only landed 3 CPL guys while at Illinois, none of whom were highly regarded: Luther, Brock and Aaron Spears (I acknowledge that Self did in fact land Collins and Wright while at Kansas, but the Illinois point remains). You can have consistently competitive teams at Illinois relying on the suburbs and downstate. If you can bring someone in with national ties (like Self) and put other states in play, isn't that the homerun? As a result, you should be looking for young, personable, with strong recruiting ties somewhere. I don't know who that guy is, but I'll give Mike Thomas leeway to find that guy. One final point: could Chris Collins land some kids out of the CPL? Why not? I don't remember who the lead recruiter was on Sean Dockery, but Duke managed to land him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) He didn't need an interview. He already had an offer. He wasn't going on TV with all this hanging in limbo. There are other programs and other opportunities. Those TV appearances set coaches up. Makes them known to the boosters and general public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) Maybe I'm in the minority here, but while I would like someone who can bring in the Jabbari Parker's of the world, aren't we actually looking for the next Bill Self here? Self, off the top of my head, only landed 3 CPL guys while at Illinois, none of whom were highly regarded: Luther, Brock and Aaron Spears (I acknowledge that Self did in fact land Collins and Wright while at Kansas, but the Illinois point remains). You can have consistently competitive teams at Illinois relying on the suburbs and downstate. If you can bring someone in with national ties (like Self) and put other states in play, isn't that the homerun? As a result, you should be looking for young, personable, with strong recruiting ties somewhere. I don't know who that guy is, but I'll give Mike Thomas leeway to find that guy. One final point: could Chris Collins land some kids out of the CPL? Why not? I don't remember who the lead recruiter was on Sean Dockery, but Duke managed to land him. Illinois doesn't need to get all CPL guys or even the top talent from Chicago to be successful. But what Self did, and Kruger (though he basically struck gold) was to recruit a little out of Chicago and a lot elsewhere. Self got some national recruits, Kruger got the Peoria guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) Maybe I'm in the minority here, but while I would like someone who can bring in the Jabbari Parker's of the world, aren't we actually looking for the next Bill Self here? Self, off the top of my head, only landed 3 CPL guys while at Illinois, none of whom were highly regarded: Luther, Brock and Aaron Spears (I acknowledge that Self did in fact land Collins and Wright while at Kansas, but the Illinois point remains). You can have consistently competitive teams at Illinois relying on the suburbs and downstate. If you can bring someone in with national ties (like Self) and put other states in play, isn't that the homerun? As a result, you should be looking for young, personable, with strong recruiting ties somewhere. I don't know who that guy is, but I'll give Mike Thomas leeway to find that guy. One final point: could Chris Collins land some kids out of the CPL? Why not? I don't remember who the lead recruiter was on Sean Dockery, but Duke managed to land him. There are reasons many don't even bother with the CPL. What you have to do to actually land a kid could get you fired. See Kennedy, Pat at DePaul, and supposedly its even worse now. Tom Izzo went 13 years without getting someone from the Detroit Public League because of the same thing. Street agents, AAU coaches, payoffs...etc. Self had a team that probably was a national championship team at Illinois, just add Charlie Villenueva to the team that played for the title, and I think they win without a gigantic presence of Public League players. I think the Public League is used more to try to justify Bruce Weber getting canned than actual winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:18 PM) Illinois doesn't need to get all CPL guys or even the top talent from Chicago to be successful. But what Self did, and Kruger (though he basically struck gold) was to recruit a little out of Chicago and a lot elsewhere. Self got some national recruits, Kruger got the Peoria guys. Kruger didn't get ANYONE out of Chicago. He was blackballed out of the CPL because Illinois passed on Jimmy Collins. You are right that Kruger struck gold with the Peoria guys and then Brian Cook, but there was an uproar when Lance Williams, Bobby Simmons and Quentin Richardson went to DePaul instead of Illinois. Of the top 8 on the Elite 8 team with Kruger's recruits, Lucas Johnson was the closest thing to being from Chicago. The point is that in the coaching search, people are so hung up on needing to be able to recruit Chicago. That isn't necessarily the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) Kruger didn't get ANYONE out of Chicago. He was blackballed out of the CPL because Illinois passed on Jimmy Collins. You are right that Kruger struck gold with the Peoria guys and then Brian Cook, but there was an uproar when Lance Williams, Bobby Simmons and Quentin Richardson went to DePaul instead of Illinois. Of the top 8 on the Elite 8 team with Kruger's recruits, Lucas Johnson was the closest thing to being from Chicago. The point is that in the coaching search, people are so hung up on needing to be able to recruit Chicago. That isn't necessarily the case. I thought Cook was from Chicago or the burbs? Maybe I'm not remembering right. Edit: yeah i guess he was from Lincoln. Damir was from Rockford, that looks like the closest guy to Chicago for him. Edited March 21, 2012 by Jenksismybitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) I thought Cook was from Chicago or the burbs? Maybe I'm not remembering right The pride & joy of Lincoln, IL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:12 PM) There are other programs and other opportunities. Those TV appearances set coaches up. Makes them known to the boosters and general public. Not right now there aren't, at least nowhere he's going. So if you are speaking short term, you're clearly wrong. If you want to talk long term, he's not on TV so people can begin to know about him, everyone already does. You don't get jobs based on TV appearances, you get them on results. And a top 5 job, if that's what he's holding out for, won't be influenced by studio work on CBS. That's ridiculous. Edited March 21, 2012 by IlliniKrush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:33 PM) The pride & joy of Lincoln, IL Anyone that has played HS sports against the Lincoln Railers knows all about Brian Cook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 05:26 PM) Anyone that has played HS sports against the Lincoln Railers knows all about Brian Cook I remember Warren ending his HS career in Peoria in 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 06:23 PM) I remember Warren ending his HS career in Peoria in 99 A year before Darius Miles ended Matt Lottich's and Todd Townsend's high school careers in Peoria! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 07:32 PM) A year before Darius Miles ended Matt Lottich's and Todd Townsend's high school careers in Peoria! I remember seeing Darius Miles play and figured he was can't miss in NBA. Oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 08:02 PM) I remember seeing Darius Miles play and figured he was can't miss in NBA. Oops I think he was just a late bloomer who had his career ended by injuries. Nowadays, and not just in basketball, but a ton of sports, if you don't show greatness off the bat, people are quick to write you off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 08:02 PM) I remember seeing Darius Miles play and figured he was can't miss in NBA. Oops Same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Mar 21, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) I thought Cook was from Chicago or the burbs? Maybe I'm not remembering right. Edit: yeah i guess he was from Lincoln. Damir was from Rockford, that looks like the closest guy to Chicago for him. I loved Krupalija back in the day. But my Uncle coached him in high school so I was always a little biased towards Damir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Why no talk of Johnny Dawkins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I was back strongly aboard the Mick Cronin bandwagon for about 8 minutes last night. I know he and Thomas supposedly don't get along any more, but Illinois could do worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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