Robin Ventura is DA MANager discussion

[sunofgold]

I couldn't find a thread discussing Robin Ventura as manager. Thought it would be cool to have a thread where we discuss Robin Ventura's baseball manager decisions, policies, philosophies, etc. Applaud or criticize his decisions.

 

So far I think that he is doing fine. Still have to wait until the season goes on to really understand how he is going to act as manager.

 

I am most interested right now in seeing how Ventura will handle an umpire who might be squeezing the White Sox on the strike zone. He seem fairly quiet but will he go out there and argue and get tossed out to help the team. Probably..but I want to see it firsthand.

 

Overall, I think that Ventura is going to be at least a good, competent manager. Potential to be a great manager. However, this is subject to change. lol.

Edited March 11, 2012 by sunofgold

[flavum]

Too early to judge.

 

I don't like AJ batting second. I didn't like seeing him bunt with 1st and 2nd, no out early in a game, but I don't know if that's going to be the move during the season or if that was just to work on a situation in preparation of the season.

 

Time will tell. A lot of it is just dealing with the media, and dealing with the players on a personal level. I think he'll do fine.

 

The other stuff is delegating to the coaches. Coop is running the pitching staff. I heard him say Parent is calling pitch outs since he was a catcher.

 

It's a group effort.

Edited March 11, 2012 by flavum

[southsider2k5]

Great idea for a thread

[sunofgold]

I am okay with AJ batting second because right now we don't have anybody better to fill that spot. I think that AJ is our best option right now. Have to agree with Ventura on that decision. Who can you place in the 2-hole that would be better than AJ at this point?

 

Of course I rather seeing AJ batting lower in the order. And who bats second when AJ isn't in the lineup? Hopefully in time somebody will emerge as a #2 hitter. Unfortunately, I don't see anybody else at this point.

 

Maybe Morel is he continues to show progress. But he is going to have continue to draw walks. He did drew 15 walks last September. Just needs to keep doing this.

Edited March 11, 2012 by sunofgold

[Wanne]

I certainly don't think the 2 spot is set in stone. Of course it's AJ's to lose right now...but over the course of the season I'm sure we'll see Gordo or Morel (both of whom are swinging great bats right now) in that spot at times.

 

Robin's done fine so far. Besides lineups his biggest thing so far was when he had to go yank Molina in the middle of an inning. He's definitely a student of the game. I just wonder what he's always writing down all the time.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, AJ is in the 2 hole because no one else has earned it.

[ptatc]

Too early to judge.

 

I don't like AJ batting second. I didn't like seeing him bunt with 1st and 2nd, no out early in a game, but I don't know if that's going to be the move during the season or if that was just to work on a situation in preparation of the season. Time will tell. A lot of it is just dealing with the media, and dealing with the players on a personal level. I think he'll do fine.

 

The other stuff is delegating to the coaches. Coop is running the pitching staff. I heard him say Parent is calling pitch outs since he was a catcher.

 

It's a group effort.

I think you'll see a fair amount of bunting from him. He used it himself when he thought the other team wasn't ready for it. As slow as he was especially after the horrific ankle fracture, he was able to use it effectively. That was a good clue that he really understood the game

[Cali]

I'm gonna be judging him on the two major faults of the last guy:

 

- Slow Start in April/May (extending back to the Spring Training preparation)

 

- Not getting it up for Division games/Praising the Twins (or other division opponents) too much before starting a series with them

[Jerksticks]

I am okay with AJ batting second because right now we don't have anybody better to fill that spot. I think that AJ is our best option right now. Have to agree with Ventura on that decision. Who can you place in the 2-hole that would be better than AJ at this point?

 

Of course I rather seeing AJ batting lower in the order. And who bats second when AJ isn't in the lineup? Hopefully in time somebody will emerge as a #2 hitter. Unfortunately, I don't see anybody else at this point.

 

Maybe Morel is he continues to show progress. But he is going to have continue to draw walks. He did drew 15 walks last September. Just needs to keep doing this.

 

 

I figure one of our starting outfielders will be garbage so I'm hoping Lillibridge will emerge as our #2 hitter. I hope he goes 4-4 the first time he plays so Robin is forced to keep his bat in there.

 

He hits fastballs harder than Paulie.

[The Ginger Kid]

I'm gonna be judging him on the two major faults of the last guy:

 

- Slow Start in April/May (extending back to the Spring Training preparation)

Just spent 4 days in the land of the sun watching these guys. Was there every morning for the start of practice and I have to say, having been to 3 of Ozzie's ST, and this is only my opinion, but Robin and his crew are running a tighter ship. Hell, Mark Parent alone is a huge difference. That guy is freaking awesome and totally in charge. I've never seen the coaches giving so much one-on-one attention/advice to everyone one from PK on down. Watched Parent working with Flowers on his transfer this morning for a solid 20 minutes. And since today was a road game and most sox fans didn't come out for the practice, players were happy to chat up some fans. Konerko says he's excited and I quote "We're definitely going to surprise some people this season."

 

FWIW

[Cali]

The only thing missing are spring results. Which probably has more to say about the lack of depth in the system than anything. I've said this before, but while I never really put much stock into ST wins and losses I honestly think some of the head cases on the team do carry it into the season. And as unfortunate as it is you better believe Detroit is gonna take their hot spring right on in to April so if the Sox do the same with their record it's gonna be a brutal month.

 

 

[The Ginger Kid]

The only thing missing are spring results. Which probably has more to say about the lack of depth in the system than anything. I've said this before, but while I never really put much stock into ST wins and losses I honestly think some of the head cases on the team do carry it into the season. And as unfortunate as it is you better believe Detroit is gonna take their hot spring right on in to April so if the Sox do the same with their record it's gonna be a brutal month.

Why so cynical? First, its spring training. Second, today completes only the first week of ST games. If you want to make assessments on organizational depth, the World Champion Detroit Tigers, and Robin Ventura based on the first seven days of spring games, have at it. But it seems a bit premature to me.

[greg775]

I'm gonna be judging him on the two major faults of the last guy:

 

- Slow Start in April/May (extending back to the Spring Training preparation)

 

- Not getting it up for Division games/Praising the Twins (or other division opponents) too much before starting a series with them

 

Good take IMO.

With the Sox's pitching, we still should be able to rule the division except for Detroit. We SHOULD be able to at least split with KC cause their pitching SUCKS. We ought to be able to beat up on Cleveland and Minnie with our veteran talent.

That would be a good way to judge Robin, just what you said.

 

 

We have f***ing Adam Dunn on our team and Rios and Konerko and AJP and Lexi. We have enough veteran everyday players to go with good starting pitching (on paper) to beat everybody not named Detroit in our division.

Edited March 12, 2012 by greg775

[Cali]

Why so cynical? First, its spring training. Second, today completes only the first week of ST games. If you want to make assessments on organizational depth, the World Champion Detroit Tigers, and Robin Ventura based on the first seven days of spring games, have at it. But it seems a bit premature to me.

 

I'm not crowning Detroit as World Champs. AL Central Champs for sure but I think one of Texas, NY, LA, or Boston will knock them out. The pitching after Verlander is suspect and even he wasn't the lights out CY/MVP he was during the regular season last postseason. 

 

 

 

 

I wanna add one more major issue from the Ozzie era I'm gonna be judging Robin on:

 

Getting shut down by the following THREE types of pitchers on a regular basis*:

 

- soft tossing lefty with a good change-up

 

- rookie/first time pitcher facing the Sox

 

- pitcher who has been getting killed by the rest of the league, baffles the Sox hitters 

 

(* = a pitcher can be any combination of these three types and possible all three in one. )

 

Now I understand a lot of these issues are on the players, but it's really up to Robin and his coaching staff to change the culture of the locker room and to say the right things to get these players to all stop falling into these annoying habits that frustrate us and cause them to lose baseball games they should win. Obviously you can't win them all but we the fans and I'm sure some if  not all of the players know there have been far too many games lost in the last few seasons that they had no business losing. 

 

[cabiness42]

I don't like AJ batting second. I didn't like seeing him bunt with 1st and 2nd, no out early in a game, but I don't know if that's going to be the move during the season or if that was just to work on a situation in preparation of the season.

 

I don't like AJ batting second because he doesn't take enough pitcher, but as of now there isn't anybody on this team I DO like batting second, unless deAza and Lilli are both in the lineup then I like Lilli batting second.

[kageman129]

One thing I look forward to - If a young player has a good game, he might not be immediately benched the following game. Hopefully Robin takes advantage of a young player's hot streak.

 

I just remember seeing Morel hit that game winning home run in the middle of the season, only to be benched for Vizquel or something the next day.

 

 

[ScottyDo]

I'm not crowning Detroit as World Champs. AL Central Champs for sure but I think one of Texas, NY, LA, or Boston will knock them out. The pitching after Verlander is suspect and even he wasn't the lights out CY/MVP he was during the regular season last postseason. 

 

 

 

 

I wanna add one more major issue from the Ozzie era I'm gonna be judging Robin on:

 

Getting shut down by the following THREE types of pitchers on a regular basis*:

 

- soft tossing lefty with a good change-up

 

- rookie/first time pitcher facing the Sox

 

- pitcher who has been getting killed by the rest of the league, baffles the Sox hitters 

 

(* = a pitcher can be any combination of these three types and possible all three in one. )

 

Now I understand a lot of these issues are on the players, but it's really up to Robin and his coaching staff to change the culture of the locker room and to say the right things to get these players to all stop falling into these annoying habits that frustrate us and cause them to lose baseball games they should win. Obviously you can't win them all but we the fans and I'm sure some if  not all of the players know there have been far too many games lost in the last few seasons that they had no business losing. 

If the exact same sorts of things occur under both Ozzie and Robin, wouldn't you then suspect that the manager has nothing to do with these issues at all?

[Balta1701]

If the exact same sorts of things occur under both Ozzie and Robin, wouldn't you then suspect that the manager has nothing to do with these issues at all?

No, because there are clearly teams that can hit left handed pitching, for example.

[ScottyDo]

No, because there are clearly teams that can hit left handed pitching, for example.

I didn't claim that the issues don't exist, merely that they may have nothing to do with the manager.

[Balta1701]

I didn't claim that the issues don't exist, merely that they may have nothing to do with the manager.

But clearly, not every team gets off to a poor start. Bruce Chen doesn't have a 3.30 career ERA against every team. That means there is something which the Sox are doing different against these guys where the Sox are failing where other people succeed. Somewhere in that puzzle, the coaching staff fits in.

[ScottyDo]

But clearly, not every team gets off to a poor start. Bruce Chen doesn't have a 3.30 career ERA against every team. That means there is something which the Sox are doing different against these guys where the Sox are failing where other people succeed. Somewhere in that puzzle, the coaching staff fits in.

It's definitely possible, but I really have no idea to what degree the coaching staff affects these things. I'd be more likely to concede that it was a fault with the managerial staff if these things change under Ventura than if they don't, though. Those are rather specific problems to have, and if two managers with ostensibly different styles each demonstrate the same specific, weird issue, I highly doubt there was much they could do about it in the first place. I'm much more in the camp of analyzing the things we know Ventura has control over: setting the lineup, yanking pitchers (if he starts taking that duty from Coop at some point), and in-game decisions (bunts, shifts, pinch hitters, defensive subs, etc.) Any other criteria used to judge him are, at best, a little capricious since we're just guessing at the relationship between manager and April record.

 

EDIT: Add not being a huge distraction to the list. Once Paulie admitted that it was a problem last year, I was willing to concede that those squabbles had an effect on the bottom line.

Edited March 12, 2012 by ScottyDo

[Thad Bosley]

The number one characteristic or ability of the number two batter is to take pitches. This enables the lead-off hitter to see a pitch or two and get a read on the pitcher before deciding to steal a base, as well as give the number three hitter on the on-deck circle and the clean-up guy in the hole a chance to observe a few pitches before coming to the plate. With that said, you could arguably make the case that AJ is the last person on this team who ought to be hitting in that slot. He swings at the first pitch about as often as anyone in the league, and while he does make a lot of contact, often times it's weak, resulting in easy grounders to the right side. So if DeAza continues to be the get-on-base type of player he was last season, you'd hate to waste those efforts with a guy who could erase things in the blink of an eye with a 4-6-3 double play. Just my opinion, but for me, it's 'no way, AJ!' as the number two hitter.

[ptatc]

I'm not crowning Detroit as World Champs. AL Central Champs for sure but I think one of Texas, NY, LA, or Boston will knock them out. The pitching after Verlander is suspect and even he wasn't the lights out CY/MVP he was during the regular season last postseason. 

 

 

 

 

I wanna add one more major issue from the Ozzie era I'm gonna be judging Robin on:

 

Getting shut down by the following THREE types of pitchers on a regular basis*:

 

- soft tossing lefty with a good change-up

 

-rookie/first time pitcher facing the Sox

 

- pitcher who has been getting killed by the rest of the league, baffles the Sox hitters 

 

(* = a pitcher can be any combination of these three types and possible all three in one. )

 

Now I understand a lot of these issues are on the players, but it's really up to Robin and his coaching staff to change the culture of the locker room and to say the right things to get these players to all stop falling into these annoying habits that frustrate us and cause them to lose baseball games they should win. Obviously you can't win them all but we the fans and I'm sure some if  not all of the players know there have been far too many games lost in the last few seasons that they had no business losing. 

This has been true for the Sox since the 80's. I'm not sure if it's the Charlie Lau approach to hitting or what but the Sox have had this problem long beofre Ozzie was manager.

[Balta1701]

The number one characteristic or ability of the number two batter is to take pitches. This enables the lead-off hitter to see a pitch or two and get a read on the pitcher before deciding to steal a base, as well as give the number three hitter on the on-deck circle and the clean-up guy in the hole a chance to observe a few pitches before coming to the plate. With that said, you could arguably make the case that AJ is the last person on this team who ought to be hitting in that slot. He swings at the first pitch about as often as anyone in the league, and while he does make a lot of contact, often times it's weak, resulting in easy grounders to the right side. So if DeAza continues to be the get-on-base type of player he was last season, you'd hate to waste those efforts with a guy who could erase things in the blink of an eye with a 4-6-3 double play. Just my opinion, but for me, it's 'no way, AJ!' as the number two hitter.

That might be true back in the era when leadoff hitters were stealing all the time, but the Sox haven't had a leadoff hitter who could steal 50+ bases since August of 2005, and they're exceedignly rare around MLB. If nothing else, you put a guy with decent speed on first, even if he's not stealing, a slow ground ball to the right side is a "productive out".

 

AJ obviously isn't the ideal candidate there...but it's more because he's slow himself and he doesn't walk much so he's never on base. But the problem is...someoen else needs to earn that job. It can't just be given away to another guy who will wind up spending a month hitting .210.

[Chicago White Sox]

The number one characteristic or ability of the number two batter is to take pitches. This enables the lead-off hitter to see a pitch or two and get a read on the pitcher before deciding to steal a base, as well as give the number three hitter on the on-deck circle and the clean-up guy in the hole a chance to observe a few pitches before coming to the plate. With that said, you could arguably make the case that AJ is the last person on this team who ought to be hitting in that slot. He swings at the first pitch about as often as anyone in the league, and while he does make a lot of contact, often times it's weak, resulting in easy grounders to the right side. So if DeAza continues to be the get-on-base type of player he was last season, you'd hate to waste those efforts with a guy who could erase things in the blink of an eye with a 4-6-3 double play. Just my opinion, but for me, it's 'no way, AJ!' as the number two hitter.

Having the top of the lineup take a lot of pitches also helps wear the opposing starting pitcher out.

 

Honestly, there is no good reason to have A.J. in the two hole. There may not be a clear cut choice at this point, but clearly A.J. has none of the traits you'd like in a #2 hitter. I'd probably just start the season with Beckham as the #2 hitter.