LVSoxFan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...ill-follow.html Hmm interesting. Especially Thornton's comments. For those who don't want to read the link, here's the elevator version: according to the piece, if the Sox begin to struggle, you're going to see a fire sale. Hence why the Floyd rumors won't go away, and everything's on the table, INCLUDING Konerko, Thornton and obviously A.J. Thornton wastes no time in saying that he's tired of losing with the Sox. And he can't be the only one feeling that way. Here's my two questions: 1) Why wasn't this the case last year? It was obvious early on that we had MAJOR problems so why did that whole season continue on? Oh, wait: probably because KW was engaged in a pin-the-loser-on-the-other guy pissing contest which Ozzie ultimately lost. But not after the season was long gone. 2) Oh you're serious this time, are you KW? OK so we clean house of all the vets/higher priced talent (except Dunn and Rios and Peavy, whom you're stuck with) and we'll get right to that rebuilding with our... last-ranked farm system (cue "Yakkity Sax"). The more this goes on the more I think that there's one person in particular who needs to go before any player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 04:37 PM) http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...ill-follow.html Hmm interesting. Especially Thornton's comments. For those who don't want to read the link, here's the elevator version: according to the piece, if the Sox begin to struggle, you're going to see a fire sale. Hence why the Floyd rumors won't go away, and everything's on the table, INCLUDING Konerko, Thornton and obviously A.J. Thornton wastes no time in saying that he's tired of losing with the Sox. And he can't be the only one feeling that way. Here's my two questions: 1) Why wasn't this the case last year? It was obvious early on that we had MAJOR problems so why did that whole season continue on? Oh, wait: probably because KW was engaged in a pin-the-loser-on-the-other guy pissing contest which Ozzie ultimately lost. But not after the season was long gone. 2) Oh you're serious this time, are you KW? OK so we clean house of all the vets/higher priced talent (except Dunn and Rios and Peavy, whom you're stuck with) and we'll get right to that rebuilding with our... last-ranked farm system (cue "Yakkity Sax"). The more this goes on the more I think that there's one person in particular who needs to go before any player. With Ozzie gone, KW is in the spotlight more now than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...ill-follow.html Hmm interesting. Especially Thornton's comments. For those who don't want to read the link, here's the elevator version: according to the piece, if the Sox begin to struggle, you're going to see a fire sale. Hence why the Floyd rumors won't go away, and everything's on the table, INCLUDING Konerko, Thornton and obviously A.J. Thornton wastes no time in saying that he's tired of losing with the Sox. And he can't be the only one feeling that way. Here's my two questions: 1) Why wasn't this the case last year? It was obvious early on that we had MAJOR problems so why did that whole season continue on? Oh, wait: probably because KW was engaged in a pin-the-loser-on-the-other guy pissing contest which Ozzie ultimately lost. But not after the season was long gone. 2) Oh you're serious this time, are you KW? OK so we clean house of all the vets/higher priced talent (except Dunn and Rios and Peavy, whom you're stuck with) and we'll get right to that rebuilding with our... last-ranked farm system (cue "Yakkity Sax"). The more this goes on the more I think that there's one person in particular who needs to go before any player. I know nobody felt great about this team's chances, but we were within a handful of games at the trade deadline last year. No GM would have sold off all their assets at that point, not even St. Anthopoulos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 11:37 AM) 1) Why wasn't this the case last year? It was obvious early on that we had MAJOR problems so why did that whole season continue on? Oh, wait: probably because KW was engaged in a pin-the-loser-on-the-other guy pissing contest which Ozzie ultimately lost. But not after the season was long gone. Honestly, the reason why that might have been tolerable last year could be that they got a check back covering a portion of Peavy's contract, so that they didn't lose as much money (then saved more money by trading Jackson midyear). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think I'm trying to say that I feel like I've been watching the same team since July 2006, with the same results (save for that fun blip at the end of 2008 but face it, the only reason that happened was the Twins sucked as much as we did), and every year the same thing comes out of KW's mouth. It's just past old at this point. And as I noted, he sells off everybody and then what? You're gonna bring up all those awesome prospects you don't have? So, I truly don't think the Sox will fundamentally change until he is gone. Unless it doesn't matter whom you put there because JR is controlling everything. I will admit this is all somewhat heightened by the Cubs landing Epstein and the other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I like the 'slogan' in that article better than appreciate the game. Win or start packing. It has a nice ring to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (YASNY @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 11:31 AM) I like the 'slogan' in that article better than appreciate the game. Win or start packing. It has a nice ring to it. That it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Just Cowley trying to dig up a negative pre-season vibe. Nothing newsworthy. By the way Matt, if you wanted the playoffs, we could have used your help down the stretch in 2010 and in April, 2011. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I'm torn because I think this team should be (should have been?) torn up and they will not be in contention this season, but I don't want Kenny in charge of a fire sale. Of course the old AL Central Illusion of Contention™ might rear it's ugly head where the Sox are many games below .500, yet still only a handful of games out of 1st so Kenny will still think they have a shot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 How is anything Joe Cowley writes about the Sox interesting to Sox fans? Folks, this guy has a serious axe to grind (in his mind, anyway). He loved Ozzie and his sons, he thinks Cooper is a backstabber and he HATES Kenny for a number of reasons, primarily for wining the "Ozzie vs. Kenny" Reinsdorf challenge. He is licking his chops and praying for this team to fail and fail fast so he can lower the boom with all of his "I told you so" bulls***...and it will be even sweeter for him if Ozzie produces a winner in Miami. And keep this in mind: if he's rooting for KW to fail he's also rooting for Robin Ventura to fail. I don't know about you guys, but Robin is one of my all-time favorite Sox. I don't want him to fail and I give the big f*** YOU to anyone who does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 05:47 PM) Just Cowley trying to dig up a negative pre-season vibe. Nothing newsworthy. By the way Matt, if you wanted the playoffs, we could have used your help down the stretch in 2010 and in April, 2011. I want this team to win, but let's not start blaming Joe Cowley for telling the truth. Phil Rogers has pointed the finger squarely at the person most responsible too. I can see these trades happening for sure but what we have goten so far in return has not been on par with the talent we traded away. Are we destined to be the cellar dwellers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 06:03 PM) How is anything Joe Cowley writes about the Sox interesting to Sox fans? Folks, this guy has a serious axe to grind (in his mind, anyway). He loved Ozzie and his sons, he thinks Cooper is a backstabber and he HATES Kenny for a number of reasons, primarily for wining the "Ozzie vs. Kenny" Reinsdorf challenge. He is licking his chops and praying for this team to fail and fail fast so he can lower the boom with all of his "I told you so" bulls***...and it will be even sweeter for him if Ozzie produces a winner in Miami. And keep this in mind: if he's rooting for KW to fail he's also rooting for Robin Ventura to fail. I don't know about you guys, but Robin is one of my all-time favorite Sox. I don't want him to fail and I give the big f*** YOU to anyone who does. Accepting the truth to what is being said by writers or analysts is not wishing Robin Ventura or the Sox to fail. Robin inherited what KW has given. I am sure Robin will do the best he can. Miracles can happen for sure and you can''t write the team off in March. But, the words written by Cowley, Rogers, etc are not wrong IMO. But, the team can prove them wrong and hopefully will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) Accepting the truth to what is being said by writers or analysts is not wishing Robin Ventura or the Sox to fail. Robin inherited what KW has given. I am sure Robin will do the best he can. Miracles can happen for sure and you can''t write the team off in March. But, the words written by Cowley, Rogers, etc are not wrong IMO. But, the team can prove them wrong and hopefully will I'm not suggesting he's wrong about predicting a losing season, hell, anyone can see how that could happen. The point is that unlike Rogers and others, Cowley has an agenda and you're simply wasting your time reading anything he has to say about the Sox. It's not analysis, it's prejudice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Can we not turn this into another interminable Joe Cowley thread? He isn't bashing KW in the article. I'M doing the KW bashing. I didn't even look at who wrote the article, I was more interested in Thornton's quotes. On-topic please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Weren't we speculating throughout the off-season that Thornton was the "inside source" for some of Cowley's indictments of the Sox front office? Not too many guys in that clubhouse are willing to give Joe a direct quote that's anything resembling controversial. So the best way to trade Matt is to make him the closer again...why not? Give Reed some time to get his feet wet and a bit of confidence. Sergio took one full year before they felt he was ready. Edited March 15, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The trades should happen before the season starts, this team isn't going anywhere . We need to rebuild this organization from top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) You know, maybe that's what I'm getting at. I can't disagree with that. Does anybody seriously believe we have a chance to even win the division? I know it hasn't begun, yada, yada and no--I'm not saying I won't go to X amount of games or abandon the team. Might as well get on with it right? EDIT: the more I think about you said I think this is exactly what I would do. The rub is that KW is still GM. Edited March 15, 2012 by LVSoxFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) You know, maybe that's what I'm getting at. I can't disagree with that. Does anybody seriously believe we have a chance to even win the division? I know it hasn't begun, yada, yada and no--I'm not saying I won't go to X amount of games or abandon the team. Might as well get on with it right? EDIT: the more I think about you said I think this is exactly what I would do. The rub is that KW is still GM. KW shouldn't do anything at any particular time unless the price is right. There's no sense in declaring it a fire sale because we lose all leverage and will get even less than what we've been getting. Patience is fine, there is no hurry, and it doesn't mean that we think this team is likely to compete. EDIT: Whoops, quoted the wrong post. This was supposed to be in response to OP. Edited March 16, 2012 by ScottyDo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 No problem with that but it all seems sort of inevitable, right? I mean, we're sort of sitting on the fence between "rebuild" and still holding on to veterans with value and then of course the Dunn/Rios/Peavy trio. Maybe that's why KW blurted out "rebuilding" a few months ago only to walk it back some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) No problem with that but it all seems sort of inevitable, right? I mean, we're sort of sitting on the fence between "rebuild" and still holding on to veterans with value and then of course the Dunn/Rios/Peavy trio. Maybe that's why KW blurted out "rebuilding" a few months ago only to walk it back some. Well yea, just try and find a team willing to take on those contracts. The Sox are stuck with them until they play to a decent enough level where you could possibly trade them with cash to a team. And there's no way they would cut the players. KW did what he could, and yes he dug himself this hole, but this is a rebuilding phase for the Sox. They just so happen to have guys they cant get rid of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shago Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Thanks for the brilliant insight you moron ... Why does he even have a job any more ? - Gio Gonzalez and Dan Hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Cowley gets just what he wants by preying on the fears of Sox fans. If players that are supposed to be good are good, our team is damn good. Yeah I said it. Can we please just ride the wave of Spring optimism? Adam Dunn is batting over .300 for pete's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Wake me when something really happens...No point reading anything from Joe Marriotti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ Mar 15, 2012 -> 01:32 PM) Can we not turn this into another interminable Joe Cowley thread? He isn't bashing KW in the article. I'M doing the KW bashing. I didn't even look at who wrote the article, I was more interested in Thornton's quotes. On-topic please... When Cowardly writes an article about the Sox, he is the subject. That's the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 It wasn't MY point in starting this thread but since you're all going to make it that, it's all yours. Have at it. Again. I'll even help: if you want an example of Cowley taking an obvious shot at KW, check out today's column. Later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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