Sun-Times: Trades Will Happen Soon if Sox Fail

[Balta1701]

check out today's column.

Really don't want to. Don't want to check out the last one either.

[caulfield12]

“Obviously, the players come and go,’’ Konerko said. “I mean myself and A.J. [Pierzynski], we’re going to be gone here at some point. But the people that head up the team, they have a much better chance of being here a lot longer than us. So they should expect to see a certain way of people going about their business.

 

“And when you have success as a team on a major scale, whether it’s winning the division, making the World Series or winning the World Series, yeah, it kind of buys you some freedoms. That’s the same in almost every workplace in the world. You go out and do the job, and no one says anything if you have little quirks on how you want to get your work in.

 

“When it all comes crashing down, it doesn’t work and you’re not doing the job, then, hey, man, they’re going to batten down the hatches. I certainly don’t take offense to it. If you didn’t see it coming, then you weren’t paying attention. That’s the way it works.’’

 

But get away from the field and take the elevator up a floor to the front offices, and that’s where the difference between the way the Cubs and Sox are doing business can be felt.

 

For the Cubs, it’s very businesslike. It’s almost like watching surgery. General manager Jed Hoyer is the anesthesiologist, Theo Epstein is the surgeon and Sveum is the bald, tatted-up rehab specialist, waiting outside to beat your body up on the road to recovery.

 

It has a white-glove feel to it. Clean, very little mess.

 

The Sox’ front office seems to be more on a crusade. Decisions are random, confusing at times. More from the heart. Almost a “we’ll show you who’s smarter’’ mentality.

 

Then again, players such as Konerko aren’t really concerned with front-office mentalities at this point. They don’t dictate the workload of mid-March days.

 

“We lost the liberties we had when we didn’t get it done as a team,’’ Konerko said. “I’m not saying they’re overdoing it with us. It’s right on for what we’ve earned.’’

 

 

I don't really see anything wrong with the story, other than the over-worshipping everyone is doing with Epstein. And that will last only for a couple of months before fans start to become impatient. It's the nature of professional sports today.

 

And for having something resembling a "boot camp" atmosphere, it sure hasn't helped to clean up a lot of the White Sox mental/physical errors on the defensive side of things. We've been sloppier than I can ever remember...although 50% of that is related to players who won't even be around come the first week of April.

 

[caulfield12]

“Obviously, the players come and go,’’ Konerko said. “I mean myself and A.J. [Pierzynski], we’re going to be gone here at some point. But the people that head up the team, they have a much better chance of being here a lot longer than us. So they should expect to see a certain way of people going about their business.

 

“And when you have success as a team on a major scale, whether it’s winning the division, making the World Series or winning the World Series, yeah, it kind of buys you some freedoms. That’s the same in almost every workplace in the world. You go out and do the job, and no one says anything if you have little quirks on how you want to get your work in.

 

“When it all comes crashing down, it doesn’t work and you’re not doing the job, then, hey, man, they’re going to batten down the hatches. I certainly don’t take offense to it. If you didn’t see it coming, then you weren’t paying attention. That’s the way it works.’’

 

But get away from the field and take the elevator up a floor to the front offices, and that’s where the difference between the way the Cubs and Sox are doing business can be felt.

 

For the Cubs, it’s very businesslike. It’s almost like watching surgery. General manager Jed Hoyer is the anesthesiologist, Theo Epstein is the surgeon and Sveum is the bald, tatted-up rehab specialist, waiting outside to beat your body up on the road to recovery.

 

It has a white-glove feel to it. Clean, very little mess.

 

The Sox’ front office seems to be more on a crusade. Decisions are random, confusing at times. More from the heart. Almost a “we’ll show you who’s smarter’’ mentality.

 

Then again, players such as Konerko aren’t really concerned with front-office mentalities at this point. They don’t dictate the workload of mid-March days.

 

“We lost the liberties we had when we didn’t get it done as a team,’’ Konerko said. “I’m not saying they’re overdoing it with us. It’s right on for what we’ve earned.’’

 

 

I don't really see anything wrong with the story, other than the over-worshipping and genuflecting everyone in the local media is doing with Epstein. And that will last only for a couple of months before fans start to become impatient. It's the nature of professional sports today.

 

And for having something resembling a "boot camp" atmosphere, it sure hasn't helped to clean up a lot of the White Sox mental/physical errors on the defensive side of things. We've been sloppier than I can ever remember...although 50% of that is related to players who won't even be around come the first week of April.

 

That line about proving themselves to be smarter has to be a shot at the Hudson and Santos/Molina trades, but, whatever...

Edited March 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

I was on board with a fire sale this offseason, but I can understand where KW wanted to wait and see how we start this year. We had so many unexplainably abysmal performances, that no matter how you look at it, there is a decent chance that Dunn, Rios, Peavy, and, to a lesser extent, Beckham could "bounce back" and we'd be a playoff contender.

 

If that was the plan, though, the Santos trade doesn't make much sense, but I also believe that KW would have sold more if we could have gotten what he wanted. Oakland selling all of their SPs on awesome contracts really shook the market up.

[ScottyDo]

“Obviously, the players come and go,’’ Konerko said. “I mean myself and A.J. [Pierzynski], we’re going to be gone here at some point. But the people that head up the team, they have a much better chance of being here a lot longer than us. So they should expect to see a certain way of people going about their business.

 

“And when you have success as a team on a major scale, whether it’s winning the division, making the World Series or winning the World Series, yeah, it kind of buys you some freedoms. That’s the same in almost every workplace in the world. You go out and do the job, and no one says anything if you have little quirks on how you want to get your work in.

 

“When it all comes crashing down, it doesn’t work and you’re not doing the job, then, hey, man, they’re going to batten down the hatches. I certainly don’t take offense to it. If you didn’t see it coming, then you weren’t paying attention. That’s the way it works.’’

 

But get away from the field and take the elevator up a floor to the front offices, and that’s where the difference between the way the Cubs and Sox are doing business can be felt.

 

For the Cubs, it’s very businesslike. It’s almost like watching surgery. General manager Jed Hoyer is the anesthesiologist, Theo Epstein is the surgeon and Sveum is the bald, tatted-up rehab specialist, waiting outside to beat your body up on the road to recovery.

 

It has a white-glove feel to it. Clean, very little mess.

 

The Sox’ front office seems to be more on a crusade. Decisions are random, confusing at times. More from the heart. Almost a “we’ll show you who’s smarter’’ mentality.

 

Then again, players such as Konerko aren’t really concerned with front-office mentalities at this point. They don’t dictate the workload of mid-March days.

 

“We lost the liberties we had when we didn’t get it done as a team,’’ Konerko said. “I’m not saying they’re overdoing it with us. It’s right on for what we’ve earned.’’

 

 

I don't really see anything wrong with the story, other than the over-worshipping and genuflecting everyone in the local media is doing with Epstein. And that will last only for a couple of months before fans start to become impatient. It's the nature of professional sports today.

 

And for having something resembling a "boot camp" atmosphere, it sure hasn't helped to clean up a lot of the White Sox mental/physical errors on the defensive side of things. We've been sloppier than I can ever remember...although 50% of that is related to players who won't even be around come the first week of April.

 

That line about proving themselves to be smarter has to be a shot at the Hudson and Santos/Molina trades, but, whatever...

The problem with Cowley articles isn't the quotes, it's the editorialization between quotes. the portion you cited was all Konerko talking, so this article wasn't bad. But the moment he started analogizing, it turns to crap. Give me some evidence of the "we'll show you who's smarter mentality", don't just claim it to be true and assume I'll trust your unclouded judgment, Cowley.

 

Anyway, I'm not nearly as mystified by the Sox offseason as some writers and posters appear to be. Things seem very black-and-white for some people, like every team in the Sox situation should always dump every veteran contract, make no signings and make your intentions very clear. I disagree. I think you need to evaluate every move in detail, be open to signings like Danks', not overvalue closers even on friendly contracts, and not announce that you're liquidating your assets. Shrewdness does not equal unfocused crusading. Of course, some might think we didn't get enough from each of those trades, but that's how every fan feels after every trade if they're down on their GM. He always "should have" gotten more, as though there is a discrete value for each player. Personally, I don't judge executives or coaches for moves that have amorphous or undefined connections with results. I have no idea what KW "should have" been able to get for Quentin, within obvious extremes, so I'm not using the return value as an immediate yardstick for the trade. Rather, I'm looking for the GM's vision in the trade: he traded an injury-prone veteran with a sizable contract for young pitching. That's been an incredibly consistent theme over the offseason, so I don't understand the confusion people like Cowley are articulating.

[Harry Chappas]

The trades should happen before the season starts, this team isn't going anywhere . We need to rebuild this organization from top to bottom.

 

With the salary committed to Peavy, Rios and Dunn they are stuck here so the White Sox need to hope they get hot, get fans and win. You dump Konerko and you lose all fans and hope.

 

The worst thing that happened to Sox recently is theo as the cub magic is bought lock, stock and barrel that theo is taking the cubs to the 2014 series. In the Chicago media he wins every trade and every move regardless as it is rebuild.

 

It is the same as bears fans that think #1 receivers grow on trees and Brandon Marsahll is too big of a trouble maker for Bear fans to accept. I see Johnny Knox get broken in half and I wonder why anyone would do that.

 

 

 

 

[LVSoxFan]

I got the sense that Konerko wouldn't be "dumped," that in fact he wouldn't mind being traded to a contender at this point.

 

Look: if we all know this team's not going to do anything, you think he doesn't know that?

[southsider2k5]

The problem with Cowley articles isn't the quotes, it's the editorialization between quotes. the portion you cited was all Konerko talking, so this article wasn't bad. But the moment he started analogizing, it turns to crap. Give me some evidence of the "we'll show you who's smarter mentality", don't just claim it to be true and assume I'll trust your unclouded judgment, Cowley.

 

Anyway, I'm not nearly as mystified by the Sox offseason as some writers and posters appear to be. Things seem very black-and-white for some people, like every team in the Sox situation should always dump every veteran contract, make no signings and make your intentions very clear. I disagree. I think you need to evaluate every move in detail, be open to signings like Danks', not overvalue closers even on friendly contracts, and not announce that you're liquidating your assets. Shrewdness does not equal unfocused crusading. Of course, some might think we didn't get enough from each of those trades, but that's how every fan feels after every trade if they're down on their GM. He always "should have" gotten more, as though there is a discrete value for each player. Personally, I don't judge executives or coaches for moves that have amorphous or undefined connections with results. I have no idea what KW "should have" been able to get for Quentin, within obvious extremes, so I'm not using the return value as an immediate yardstick for the trade. Rather, I'm looking for the GM's vision in the trade: he traded an injury-prone veteran with a sizable contract for young pitching. That's been an incredibly consistent theme over the offseason, so I don't understand the confusion people like Cowley are articulating.

 

Not to mention it is so cheaply formulaic. "Hey lets piss off Sox fans by praising the Cubs". Jay would be so proud.

[LVSoxFan]

Why not praise the Cubs? That was a huge move. Just the kind of move we need IMO.

 

Obviously Cowley is wording it in a way to provide maximum KW-bashing, but just because I'm a Sox fan doesn't mean I can't acknowledge they did something that I wish, quite frankly, we'd do.

[Balta1701]

Why not praise the Cubs? That was a huge move. Just the kind of move we need IMO.

Which one, the trading for prospects down on their luck a little from San Diego (check) or the paying the entire bill for a starting pitcher to go away?

[Soxbadger]

How can you say this:

 

For the Cubs, it’s very businesslike. It’s almost like watching surgery. General manager Jed Hoyer is the anesthesiologist, Theo Epstein is the surgeon and Sveum is the bald, tatted-up rehab specialist, waiting outside to beat your body up on the road to recovery.

 

It has a white-glove feel to it. Clean, very little mess.

 

I swear the new regime has only been there for half a year. Seriously how much mess could there be? Its not like Epstein has any attachment to these players, its not like the Cubs have an owner who has had a relationship with these players.

 

 

[LVSoxFan]

Which one, the trading for prospects down on their luck a little from San Diego (check) or the paying the entire bill for a starting pitcher to go away?

 

Um, hiring Epstein & Co.?

 

If you want to ding the Cubs for bad trades/acquisitions, that's rich territory although I think in that scenario we define living in a glass house.

[Balta1701]

Um, hiring Epstein & Co.?

 

If you want to ding the Cubs for bad trades/acquisitions, that's rich territory although I think in that scenario we define living in a glass house.

So what if they hired Epstein? Theo Epstein isn't going to play 1b for them. He made a small set of moves this offseason, spent an enormous amount of money on a pair of Cubans, and we're just supposed to pretend everything's groovy and worship. Bull. Prove it. This article...completely fails to do so.

[LVSoxFan]

Um, so what that they hired Epstein?

 

And who said anything about "worshiping" them? Easy on the hyperbole there bro! It's the Cubs we're talking about after all...

[Soxbadger]

How can the hiring of Theo Epstein relate to Theo Epstein being the surgeon in the Cubs organization. It stands to reason that Theo didnt perform any "surgeries" until after he was hired.

 

This article is nothing more than an attempt to get a rise out of White Sox fans.

[Dick Allen]

Cowley has zero Sox sources concerning team direction. A few players will talk to him, that's it. He had to write about the White Sox and had no info, so he Jay Marriottied it. Its a recycled article from last year. The whole thing is pure Cowley speculation delivered as facts. He himself said the White Sox would be irrelevant when Ozzie left. Why is he wasting time writing about irrelevancy?

Edited March 16, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Um, so what that they hired Epstein?

 

And who said anything about "worshiping" them? Easy on the hyperbole there bro! It's the Cubs we're talking about after all...

Yes, exactly. So what that they hired Theo Epstein?

[The Ginger Kid]

The problem with Cowley articles isn't the quotes, it's the editorialization between quotes.

I have to confess, I'm a liar. I say don't waste your time reading Cowley articles when in truth I read them all the time, just to see what the little dweeb is going to say this time. Sorry LV, wasn't trying to hijack a topic. But c'mon man, it's Little Joe...how can you not consider the source?

[max power]

I have to confess, I'm a liar. I say don't waste your time reading Cowley articles when in truth I read them all the time, just to see what the little dweeb is going to say this time. Sorry LV, wasn't trying to hijack a topic. But c'mon man, it's Little Joe...how can you not consider the source?

Actually you are a hypocrite, not a liar.

[southsider2k5]

I have to confess, I'm a liar. I say don't waste your time reading Cowley articles when in truth I read them all the time, just to see what the little dweeb is going to say this time. Sorry LV, wasn't trying to hijack a topic. But c'mon man, it's Little Joe...how can you not consider the source?

 

Its like trusting MSNBC to talk about the GOP.

[Marty34]

Cowley isn't the story. The story is if Kenny is right about this team they will contend. If he is wrong, his tenure as GM is essentially over.

[southsider2k5]

Cowley isn't the story. The story is if Kenny is right about this team they will contend. If he is wrong, his tenure as GM is essentially over.

 

Joe is always the story. Just ask him.

[caulfield12]

Cowley isn't the story. The story is if Kenny is right about this team they will contend. If he is wrong, his tenure as GM is essentially over.

 

There's just a difference of opinion between those believing we have to contend in 2012, 2013 or 2014.

[Marty34]

There's just a difference of opinion between those believing we have to contend in 2012, 2013 or 2014.

 

If the Sox aren't contending in '12 they won't contend in '13 or '14.

[caulfield12]

If the Sox aren't contending in '12 they won't contend in '13 or '14.

 

 

If some of the key additions like Gustavo Molina or Simon Castro have standout minor league seasons, that's going to be the argument for staying the course.

 

2/3rd's of it (as far as 2012 goes) is the major league results, but there will never be more focus on our minor league seasons and the draft.

 

If someone like Mitchell and/or Thompson emerges as a Top 50 prospect, then KW will get 2013, too.

 

 

And if Beckham, Morel, Viciedo, Sale and Addison Reed all look good and perform well, same thing.

Edited March 17, 2012 by caulfield12