Trayvon Martin

[Y2HH]

If Zimmerman is guilty, I hope he burns. But the media has portrayed him as a racist from the jump and because of that, YOU and many like you believe he's a racist...regardless of the TOTAL lack of evidence that he's a racist. With the unedited tape, he doesn't sound like he was profiling anyone about skin color...it sounds like he was profiling suspicious behavior. To me, that changes something...

[Y2HH]

Uh, I started this thread over a week ago, and the story was already over a week old at that point. Here's something from March 13th.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/13/t...ref=mostpopular

 

I know when you started it...and it was like 8 days ago.

 

Several weeks would be almost 2 months.

 

Edit, you started it on march 21st, and the story broke March 13th. Yea, several weeks.

 

You suck at math.

 

That's less than a month.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Y2HH

[StrangeSox]

If Zimmerman is guilty, I hope he burns. But the media has portrayed him as a racist from the jump and because of that, YOU and many like you believe he's a racist...regardless of the TOTAL lack of evidence that he's a racist. With the unedited tape, he doesn't sound like he was profiling anyone about skin color...it sounds like he was profiling suspicious behavior. To me, that changes something...

 

There is still the question of whether Zimmerman would have profiled the same "suspicious behavior" of walking down the sidewalk and looking around if the teen had not been black. Nothing about the tapes disproves that.

 

If you personally were not aware of the full tapes, ok, then maybe this changes your knowledge. But that information has been publicly available for weeks, and many versions of the story do not edit in the same manner NBC did.

[Y2HH]

There is still the question of whether Zimmerman would have profiled the same "suspicious behavior" of walking down the sidewalk and looking around if the teen had not been black. Nothing about the tapes disproves that.

 

If you personally were not aware of the full tapes, ok, then maybe this changes your knowledge. But that information has been publicly available for weeks, and many versions of the story do not edit in the same manner NBC did.

 

Zimmerman's first reaction to the 911 operator asking was, "I think he's black...", he wasn't even sure. Yea, that sounds like profiling based on race to me. Maybe there is unaired tape of the 911 call where he says, "Let me make sure he's black...and if he is, I'll go after him!" Maybe then I'd lend more credibility to him being a racist than what we have now...

Edited March 30, 2012 by Y2HH

[caulfield12]

Maybe it was just a subconscious act to put his hoodie up when he felt threatened, it probably made him feel safer?

 

Once again, has a black Neighborhood Watch guy killed a white teenager based on something so generic as "suspicious behavior"???

 

Darrin Jackson often wears a hoodie too, he could just as easily been a victim had he gone to this particular store on this particular day.

[StrangeSox]

I know when you started it...and it was like 8 days ago.

 

Several weeks would be almost 2 months.

 

Edit, you started it on march 21st, and the story broke March 13th. Yea, several weeks.

 

You suck at math.

 

That's less than a month.

 

Several is three or more.

 

The article I posted was from March 13th, and it was already national at that point (the article describes the case as being turned over, and this only happened after national attention).

 

The point is that one segment from the Today show on March 27th did not impact the narrative of this story in any way.

[StrangeSox]

Zimmerman's first reaction to the 911 operator asking was, "I think he's black...", he wasn't even sure. Yea, that sounds like profiling to me.

 

It was "he looks black," which can very easily be profiling. He also has a history of calling 911 to report black youths doing things in his neighborhood.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/03/...ing_things.html

[Y2HH]

Several is three or more.

 

The article I posted was from March 13th, and it was already national at that point (the article describes the case as being turned over, and this only happened after national attention).

 

The point is that one segment from the Today show on March 27th did not impact the narrative of this story in any way.

 

A couple is 2.

 

A few is 3-6.

 

Several -- is SEVEN or more.

[caulfield12]

Zimmerman's first reaction to the 911 operator asking was, "I think he's black...", he wasn't even sure. Yea, that sounds like profiling based on race to me.

 

 

Not necessarily, just that he thought he KNEW that Martin was a minority, and maybe he was already ASSUMING he was black. Or he said that because of the neighborhood he was in, I don't know how diverse that particular neighborhood is, though, in terms of different ethnic minorities.

 

Had he ever reported a white teenager for suspicious behavior in all of his time on the Neighborhood Watch? Or anyone who wasn't black?

 

Imagine if it turned out he was "white," and he had made that comment. Then wouldn't that ALSO be proof of racial profiling?

 

Anything can be twisted around to suit an argument on one side or the other.

Edited March 30, 2012 by caulfield12

[Y2HH]

It was "he looks black," which can very easily be profiling. He also has a history of calling 911 to report black youths doing things in his neighborhood.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/03/...ing_things.html

 

He has a history of calling 911 for just about everything. So no. It's not a history of calling about black youths and only black youths. He calls 911 for just about anything he sees.

[StrangeSox]

Several -- is SEVEN or more.

 

This is incorrect.

[Y2HH]

This is incorrect.

 

I disagree...otherwise we can just get rid of the word few.

[caulfield12]

A couple is 2.

 

A few is 3-6.

 

Several -- is SEVEN or more.

 

I always thought of several as 2-3, probably 2, but also POSSIBLY 3.

 

Or you're joking?

 

A few DEFINITELY can't be 4-5-6 weeks.

[StrangeSox]

He has a history of calling 911 for just about everything. So no. It's not a history of calling about black youths and only black youths. He calls 911 for just about anything he sees.

 

Starting last fall, more and more of his calls were for black youths being present in his neighborhood.

[caulfield12]

He has a history of calling 911 for just about everything. So no. It's not a history of calling about black youths and only black youths. He calls 911 for just about anything he sees.

 

So that's wasting lots of taxpayer dollars and resources (the Boy Who Cried Wolf), he should have been taken off the Watch.

 

Has one of his hunches ever turned out to have prevented an actual crime in progress, or has it always been simply suspicion a crime might be committed in the future?

[StrangeSox]

I disagree...otherwise we can just get rid of the word few.

 

The words have similar meanings but different connotations.

 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/several

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/few

[StrangeSox]

So that's wasting lots of taxpayer dollars and resources (the Boy Who Cried Wolf), he should have been taken off the Watch.

 

Has one of his hunches ever turned out to have prevented an actual crime in progress, or has it always been simply suspicion a crime might be committed in the future?

 

Who knows. The Neighborhood Watch didn't exist until last fall when he created it. Probably because of all those suspicious youths who happen to be black.

[Y2HH]

Not necessarily, just that he thought he KNEW that Martin was a minority, and maybe he was already ASSUMING he was black. Or he said that because of the neighborhood he was in, I don't know how diverse that particular neighborhood is, though, in terms of different ethnic minorities.

 

Had he ever reported a white teenager for suspicious behavior in all of his time on the Neighborhood Watch? Or anyone who wasn't black?

 

Imagine if it turned out he was "white," and he had made that comment. Then wouldn't that ALSO be proof of racial profiling?

 

Anything can be twisted around to suit an argument on one side or the other.

 

So we should just assume he was racially profiling and convict. Got it.

 

How about we do what I've been asking the entire time, and gather ALL the facts, not edited facts, not crappy video's that answer no questions...but facts? That includes his past about calling 911, was it always about blacks? Does he have a history of being a racist? What's his record? What does the witness(es) at the scene say? What about the EMT's that treated him? What about the police?

 

How about we let them do their job and if the guy is guilty we convict him, rather than doing what we're all doing her and convicting him in the court of public opinion?

[Soxbadger]

Well that just isnt fun.

 

And the entire race issue glosses over the real issues of c&c, syg. In my opinion the racial issues have been latched onto because they are more sensational and sell more newspapers (or get more web clicks).

 

Once again, this is about money, not about the truth.

[StrangeSox]

Him being charged with something would be a nice first step.

[StrangeSox]

Well that just isnt fun.

 

And the entire race issue glosses over the real issues of c&c, syg. In my opinion the racial issues have been latched onto because they are more sensational and sell more newspapers (or get more web clicks).

 

Once again, this is about money, not about the truth.

 

The racial issues aren't relevant to the legal issues directly but are relevant socially.

[Y2HH]

Him being charged with something would be a nice first step.

 

The police WANTED to charge him with something, the DA said no. But I know, it's a police conspiracy!

Edited March 30, 2012 by Y2HH

[Soxbadger]

They may be relevant socially, its unclear at the moment. Its not like Zimmerman was a member of the Nazi party or a member of the KKK. For all we know this truly was a terrible terrible tragedy.

 

Was race involved in the arrest?

 

At first it seemed possible, but now as the facts come out, it appears the police wanted Zimmeran charged with manslaughter.

 

Was race involved in the DA's decision not to prosecute?

 

This may be possible, but not because the DA is racist, but instead because the DA perceives that the jury may be racist. Conviction percentages are the most important thing to prosecutors, many of them have a ridiculous rate of 90% or higher. They for the most part do not want to take risky cases because it generally is a lose lose situation. Furthermore, in this case, had the DA prosecuted and Zimmerman was found to be within his rights, the City/Municipality may have been liable to Zimmerman.

 

So at the end of the day, I now believe the most likely thing that happened was that the DA didnt prosecute, because he didnt want to risk his job.

 

Nothing sinister, just the sad state of criminal prosecution.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Y2HH]

They may be relevant socially, its unclear at the moment. Its not like Zimmerman was a member of the Nazi party or a member of the KKK. For all we know this truly was a terrible terrible tragedy.

 

Was race involved in the arrest?

 

At first it seemed possible, but now as the facts come out, it appears the police wanted Zimmeran charged with manslaughter.

 

Was race involved in the DA's decision not to prosecute?

 

This may be possible, but not because the DA is racist, but instead because the DA perceives that the jury may be racist. Conviction percentages are the most important thing to prosecutors, many of them have a ridiculous rate of 90% or higher. They for the most part do not want to take risky cases because it generally is a lose lose situation. Furthermore, in this case, had the DA prosecuted and Zimmerman was found to be within his rights, the City/Municipality may have been liable to Zimmerman.

 

So at the end of the day, I now believe the most likely thing that happened was that the DA didnt prosecute, because he didnt want to risk his job.

 

Nothing sinister, just the sad state of criminal prosecution.

 

Well, I hope they get to the bottom of it, figure it all out and do what needs to be done.

 

I'm not ready to hang Zimmerman while calling Martin totally innocent.

 

But I'm not ready to NOT hang Zimmerman because Martin may, in fact, be totally innocent. Hopefully enough facts emerge to settle this, sooner rather than later.

 

I know it's quite uncool of me to take this wait and see approach rather than jumping on board the Zimmerman is a guilty racist and Martin is an innocent young angel of a man train, but that's not my style. I'd rather let the truth emerge and go from there.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

I know it's quite uncool of me to take this wait and see approach rather than jumping on board the Zimmerman is a guilty racist and Martin is an innocent young angel of a man train, but that's not my style. I'd rather let the truth emerge and go from there.

Either you haven't paid much attention to this thread or you're just trying to get on everyone's nerves by insulting them. Pretty much everyone here has taken a nuanced, supported position in some fashion here. The people who think that the police are letting a guy off for shooting a kid have been very clear about what they think went wrong in the system and how they got to those conclusions.