Trayvon Martin

[pettie4sox]

Anywhere we can see a video of it?

[StrangeSox]

That's some of the most painful, tedious cross examination I've ever seen. I would have punched that defense lawyer in the f***ing face and you could tell she wants to. He's just doing his job, of course, but damn was that whole ordeal annoying. This is why I'm not going into law.

"That's real retarded, sir."

 

Anywhere we can see a video of it?

http://www.salon.com/2013/06/27/star_witne...n_martin_trial/

[StrangeSox]

she couldn't read something she claimed to have written herself.

 

I can't read my own handwriting sometimes. I'm writing some reports right now using field notes I took. I'm glad I have pictures to reference to know wtf I wrote in a few spots.

[pettie4sox]

I think Zimmerman is walking. The prosecution has no case and they are looking like complete and utter fools.

 

Now I know why people enjoy fiction so much like Law and Order.

[Soxbadger]

Eh this is unlike most murder cases. Generally you are trying to prove whether or not X person killed Y person.

 

In this case we know X killed Y, its just whether or not X did it justifiably.

 

You just cant predict what a jury will do. For all I know half of those people think that its always justified to shoot, thus the prosecution never had a shot.

 

But that wasnt really the point. The point was that you had someone who admittedly killed another human, and the police didnt even charge him. I have no problem if Zimmerman wins because the evidence isnt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I personally am not a fan of the law, I think that the burden should be on the defendant to prove that the death was justifiable, but thats just me.

[StrangeSox]

I think Zimmerman is walking. The prosecution has no case and they are looking like complete and utter fools.

 

Now I know why people enjoy fiction so much like Law and Order.

I haven't heard much aside from the knock-knock joke thing, but someone elsewhere just posted this:

 

I have the live stream of this on in the background while I'm working.

 

Prosecutor just totally did a middle-aged-man-can't-internet fail. He was trying to show that a witness was following Zimmerman's brother on Twitter, but as she pointed out to him there was a Follow button next to his name so he was probably following her not vice versa.

 

Defense was delighted to point out as well that she had zero tweets.

 

lol.

[StrangeSox]

Eh this is unlike most murder cases. Generally you are trying to prove whether or not X person killed Y person.

 

In this case we know X killed Y, its just whether or not X did it justifiably.

 

You just cant predict what a jury will do. For all I know half of those people think that its always justified to shoot, thus the prosecution never had a shot.

 

But that wasnt really the point. The point was that you had someone who admittedly killed another human, and the police didnt even charge him. I have no problem if Zimmerman wins because the evidence isnt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

I personally am not a fan of the law, I think that the burden should be on the defendant to prove that the death was justifiable, but thats just me.

I still don't know why they went for a murder charge instead of manslaughter.

[Balta1701]

I have no problem if Zimmerman wins because the evidence isnt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Well, I have a problem with the unarmed kid who died for no reason no matter what the current law says.

[Jenksismyhero]

I can't read my own handwriting sometimes. I'm writing some reports right now using field notes I took. I'm glad I have pictures to reference to know wtf I wrote in a few spots.

 

Notes are one thing, I'm sloppy with my handwriting on notes too. But if you were writing a personal letter to someone don't you think it would be legible? She later admitted that she didn't write it. It's possible the jury looks past her and focuses only on what she claims Martin told her, but so far she has been a very bad star witness for the prosecution.

 

As for the defense, the lawyer seems to be doing ok in the few video clips i've seen. Sometimes those attorneys have the body language and tone of "this is utterly ridiculous" which comes off in their questioning. That puts the whole cross examination in a context when the jurors are watching. If the witness slips up you mentally start to think the story is bogus. Tough to explain, but I've seen it happen to jurors before. I'm sure that's part of his tactic.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, I have a problem with the unarmed kid who died for no reason no matter what the current law says.

 

Maybe he shouldn't have bashed Zimmerman's head against a curb?

[pettie4sox]

Maybe he shouldn't have bashed Zimmerman's head against a curb?

 

OK so TM is bashing his head into the curb, how does he get the shot off and one at that! If you fear for your life, aren't you emptying the clip? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[Balta1701]

Maybe he shouldn't have bashed Zimmerman's head against a curb?

Maybe random vigilante-wannabees shouldn't be allowed to drive around with guns stalking people.

[Soxbadger]

Well, I have a problem with the unarmed kid who died for no reason no matter what the current law says.

 

Hate to say it, but there may have been a reason, there may have not been a reason. There is no video replay so that we can actually find out the truth.

 

Instead we are left with a system that has flaws. But in my opinion those flaws are necessary. It would be quite ironic for me to argue that I would prefer 99 guilty men to be acquitted than 1 innocent man be guilty, and then come in this thread and argue that I have some sort of problem if Zimmerman goes free.

 

I think the law itself is problematic, I think that if you want to raise an affirmative defense, it should be your burden. Its very hard for a dead man to explain his side of the story.

[Soxbadger]

Maybe random vigilante-wannabees shouldn't be allowed to drive around with guns stalking people.

 

In America even our enemies are innocent until proven guilty. It is the most fundamental right of our criminal system, and I dont care if my ideology is in disagreement with Zimmerman, he still deserves the same as someone who had the exact same ideology as me.

[Balta1701]

In America even our enemies are innocent until proven guilty. It is the most fundamental right of our criminal system, and I dont care if my ideology is in disagreement with Zimmerman, he still deserves the same as someone who had the exact same ideology as me.

But Martin was presumed guilty upon sight and wound up dead as a consequence. That means something is broken. Your standard didn't get applied to the dead kid.

[Soxbadger]

But Martin was presumed guilty upon sight and wound up dead as a consequence. That means something is broken. Your standard didn't get applied to the dead kid.

 

George Zimmerman is in no way part of the US criminal system. And Ive already addressed this by saying that the law should be that its the defendants burden to prove a killing was justified.

 

Either way, its a terribly misguided comparison.

[Balta1701]

George Zimmerman is in no way part of the US criminal system. And Ive already addressed this by saying that the law should be that its the defendants burden to prove a killing was justified.

 

Either way, its a terribly misguided comparison.

I don't think it is.

 

By letting idiots wander around with guns, we're letting whoever can get a handgun permit decide to play judge, jury, and executioner.

 

The end result is the dead kid in this case, the dead 6 month old down the road from me, and piles upon piles of bodies per year.

[Jenksismyhero]

Maybe random vigilante-wannabees shouldn't be allowed to drive around with guns stalking people.

 

I get the outrage, but I'm not entirely unsympathetic to Zimmerman. This isn't a guy that shoots up a car full of black teens because of an irrational fear that they might do something.

[Jenksismyhero]

But Martin was presumed guilty upon sight and wound up dead as a consequence. That means something is broken. Your standard didn't get applied to the dead kid.

 

This is crap.

[StrangeSox]

I get the outrage, but I'm not entirely unsympathetic to Zimmerman. This isn't a guy that shoots up a car full of black teens because of an irrational fear that they might do something.

No that was that other dude in Florida a few months later.

 

Zimmerman was somebody who thought himself an enforcer of the law and was sick of seeing these "assholes" get away. He said that three days later knowing that Trayvon wasn't doing anything wrong when Zimmerman decided to report him to the police and then arm himself to follow after him.

[pettie4sox]

Jenks why are you ignoring my post?

[Jenksismyhero]

OK so TM is bashing his head into the curb, how does he get the shot off and one at that! If you fear for your life, aren't you emptying the clip? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

Sorry, I didn't see this.

 

I don't think it's all that difficult to see what happened. Martin is on top of Zimmerman punching at him. Eventually Martin gets enough leverage to drop Zimmerman's head against the curb and Zimmerman has enough time/space to pull out the gun and shoot him in the chest. I'm sure after one shot Martin was dead or close to dead instantly so there was no need for multiple shots.

[Jenksismyhero]

No that was that other dude in Florida a few months later.

 

Zimmerman was somebody who thought himself an enforcer of the law and was sick of seeing these "assholes" get away. He said that three days later knowing that Trayvon wasn't doing anything wrong when Zimmerman decided to report him to the police and then arm himself to follow after him.

 

He wasn't doing anything wrong at the time, but how do you know he wasn't about to do something wrong? It's clearly not a smart move by Zimmerman and in a perfect world he goes home and calls the cops to deal with it. But I don't think him going after Martin was wrong or illegal. Stupid, probably, but not wrong.

 

Edit: and I don't know why you would describe him as an "enforcer" of the law. You don't think it's reasonable that he wanted to tail Martin just to make sure he didn't do anything? Or that he wanted to ask him what he was doing? Following up on a suspicious is not enforcing the law.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[pettie4sox]

Sorry, I didn't see this.

 

I don't think it's all that difficult to see what happened. Martin is on top of Zimmerman punching at him. Eventually Martin gets enough leverage to drop Zimmerman's head against the curb and Zimmerman has enough time/space to pull out the gun and shoot him in the chest. I'm sure after one shot Martin was dead or close to dead instantly so there was no need for multiple shots.

 

I see. I guess with all that adrenaline pumping, I thought he'd be in a bit more shock and do something more erratic. To show that much poise in that situation shows a lot about Zimmerman.

[StrangeSox]

He wasn't doing anything wrong at the time, but how do you know he wasn't about to do something wrong?

 

lol, this is exactly why Zimmerman is a s***head.