Trayvon Martin

[StrangeSox]

He also grabs his gun and chases them. That's the only way people will learn.

 

No, Alpha gets his family into the basement, grabs his gun, but stays his ass inside after calling the police.

[EvilMonkey]

You call the cops on every single individual you don't recognize in your neighborhood who's walking on the sidewalk at 8PM? You think that the simple act of being outside and not being known by you warrants being harassed by the police?

If I see kids I don't know checking out that empty house, or walking up the driveway, I sure keep my eye on them. When they disappeared around the side, I walked a bit to see that the side door was open, so I called. Yeah. And like Jenks said, you just love to ignore context. recent breakins, unknown person, all that adds into perceptions. But you just look at race, it seems.

[EvilMonkey]

So instead of asking if he could help the guy, he calls the police. This doesn't happen if he's not a young black male.

Nice to know you are a mind reader.

[EvilMonkey]

No, Alpha gets his family into the basement, grabs his gun, but stays his ass inside after calling the police.

Since I was outgunned, your damn right.

[illinilaw08]

Well, if he started his call 'there's some guilty looking black kid walking down the street...', it would be worse than 'there is a suspicious kid walking down the street'. Race shouldn't matter in most of your arguments you have used throughout here. The kid was suspicious regardless of his color. Unrecognized, looking lost, recent break ins, dark, raining, all enough to warrant a closer look.

 

I think the biggest outrage in the Martin saga comes from people's definition of "suspicious." Taking race out of the equation entirely, Martin was a 17 year old kid, walking on the sidewalk, wearing a hooded sweatshirt. He wasn't on people's lawns. He wasn't peering into windows. He was just walking. Add his race into the equation and you can see why this became such an ordeal.

 

Anecdotal evidence of my own. My house was broken into last July while I was at work. It was in broad daylight, only electronics in sight were taken. Clearly the work of youths. Fast forward. If a youth is walking past my house, that's not suspicious behavior. If a youth is loitering in front of my house, slightly more suspicious. But even after being the victim of a property crime, if a kid walks past my house, it would not be a reasonable impulse for me to follow them down the street.

[Soxbadger]

He was wandering around as if lost or looking for something. Not suspicious at ALL for someone who lived there.

 

And if you are assuming that by assholes he meant blacks, then just who is it that is obsessed with race? Again, if he had said 'asshole backs kids', or stronger language, then you have something different. Assholes are assholes, regardless of color, sex, religion or sexual orientation.

 

I dont know what he meant by "these assholes". I assume he was implying that he believed Martin to be a criminal, which he wasnt.

 

It just shows that Zimmerman was immediately prejudiced against Martin (for whatever reason, race, age, clothing) and that Zimmerman's perception was warped.

 

And I lived in the suburbs, on many nights at 8pm there were lots of kids wandering the streets in hoodies, etc.

 

You know who I would have thought was suspicious?

 

The 28 year old man in a car who is watching teenagers. That seems like a Lifetime Movie waiting to be written.

 

Again, I assume if you have a child, you would find nothing odd if he came home and said:

 

"Hey dad there was this man following me around in a car, I then ran and he chased me"

 

Im sure your response would be:

 

"Hey asshole stop walking around the neighborhood, thats suspicious"

 

[illinilaw08]

If I see kids I don't know checking out that empty house, or walking up the driveway, I sure keep my eye on them. When they disappeared around the side, I walked a bit to see that the side door was open, so I called. Yeah. And like Jenks said, you just love to ignore context. recent breakins, unknown person, all that adds into perceptions. But you just look at race, it seems.

 

I'm sure you can see the difference between "walking on the sidewalk" and "disappearing around the side of an empty house that has been broken into before" or "walking up the driveway of an empty house." Two of those things are suspicious behavior. One of them is absolutely not.

[EvilMonkey]

I dont know what he meant by "these assholes". I assume he was implying that he believed Martin to be a criminal, which he wasnt.

 

It just shows that Zimmerman was immediately prejudiced against Martin (for whatever reason, race, age, clothing) and that Zimmerman's perception was warped.

 

And I lived in the suburbs, on many nights at 8pm there were lots of kids wandering the streets in hoodies, etc.

 

You know who I would have thought was suspicious?

 

The 28 year old man in a car who is watching teenagers. That seems like a Lifetime Movie waiting to be written.

 

Again, I assume if you have a child, you would find nothing odd if he came home and said:

 

"Hey dad there was this man following me around in a car, I then ran and he chased me"

 

Im sure your response would be:

 

"Hey asshole stop walking around the neighborhood, thats suspicious"

 

Well a few years ago while at the Joliet mall with my sons, the older one was off on his own for a bit, then came back and told me that some guy was following him so he came back to me, kinda nervous. So I confronted the guy who turned out to be mall security, and was suspicious of my son as he matched a description of kids who had been shoplifting, white, long hair, black clothes. After a few minutes the guy left. Maybe my son should have shot the security guy in fear for his life? nah, he went to an adult, in this case me, instead of trying to be macho and handle it on his own.

[Soxbadger]

I think the biggest outrage in the Martin saga comes from people's definition of "suspicious." Taking race out of the equation entirely, Martin was a 17 year old kid, walking on the sidewalk, wearing a hooded sweatshirt. He wasn't on people's lawns. He wasn't peering into windows. He was just walking. Add his race into the equation and you can see why this became such an ordeal.

 

Anecdotal evidence of my own. My house was broken into last July while I was at work. It was in broad daylight, only electronics in sight were taken. Clearly the work of youths. Fast forward. If a youth is walking past my house, that's not suspicious behavior. If a youth is loitering in front of my house, slightly more suspicious. But even after being the victim of a property crime, if a kid walks past my house, it would not be a reasonable impulse for me to follow them down the street.

 

You sir are too sensible. The only people who want to use race right now are those who are taking advantage of the prejudice that somehow black people are criminals.

 

Not one person wants to address the fact that if you put 17 year old Soxbadger in Martin's place, half of these pro-Zimmerman people would be talking about how immigrants are killing white people.

 

ha ha ha

[EvilMonkey]

I'm sure you can see the difference between "walking on the sidewalk" and "disappearing around the side of an empty house that has been broken into before" or "walking up the driveway of an empty house." Two of those things are suspicious behavior. One of them is absolutely not.

he spent 20 minutes walking around a neighborhood in the rain appearing lost. A neighborhood that isn't that big.

[Balta1701]

he spent 20 minutes walking around a neighborhood in the rain appearing lost. A neighborhood that isn't that big.

And also "trying to get away from the unidentified man in a truck who was following him".

[Jenksismyhero]

You sir are too sensible. The only people who want to use race right now are those who are taking advantage of the prejudice that somehow black people are criminals.

 

Not one person wants to address the fact that if you put 17 year old Soxbadger in Martin's place, half of these pro-Zimmerman people would be talking about how immigrants are killing white people.

 

ha ha ha

 

Well everyone knows Zimmerman is an illegal.

[StrangeSox]

If I see kids I don't know checking out that empty house, or walking up the driveway, I sure keep my eye on them. When they disappeared around the side, I walked a bit to see that the side door was open, so I called. Yeah. And like Jenks said, you just love to ignore context. recent breakins, unknown person, all that adds into perceptions. But you just look at race, it seems.

 

So you don't call the cops on every single person walking around your neighborhood at 8PM because that's not exactly suspicious activity.

[StrangeSox]

Since I was outgunned, your damn right.

 

That was meant 100% as a compliment. That was the right course of action every time.

[Soxbadger]

Well a few years ago while at the Joliet mall with my sons, the older one was off on his own for a bit, then came back and told me that some guy was following him so he came back to me, kinda nervous. So I confronted the guy who turned out to be mall security, and was suspicious of my son as he matched a description of kids who had been shoplifting, white, long hair, black clothes. After a few minutes the guy left. Maybe my son should have shot the security guy in fear for his life? nah, he went to an adult, in this case me, instead of trying to be macho and handle it on his own.

 

So in your situation we have the following differences:

 

1) The security guard was employed (likely licensed) to do the job he was doing

 

2) Your son was in a public place with a lot of witnesses

 

3) In your example it would have been the security guard shooting your son, Martin never had a gun nor any ability to shoot Zimmerman.

 

So maybe think about a similar situation, with your son in a dangerous neighborhood being followed by someone who was not a security guard.

 

Very reasonable, happens all the time? lol

 

That scenario is the start of most child abduction/murders. So yah I find it amusing that anyone legitimately finds zimmerman's behavior at all acceptable. I wouldnt want this guy anywhere near my neighborhood.

[EvilMonkey]

So you don't call the cops on every single person walking around your neighborhood at 8PM because that's not exactly suspicious activity.

Do you have evidence that George did that? or just that he did it this once? We know he has called the cops, but no mention of race in any of those other calls. otherwise your throwing 'every time' in there is just creating a condition that doesn't exist.

[mr_genius]

Well everyone knows Zimmerman is an illegal.

 

if convicted, does he still get amnesty?

Edited June 28, 2013 by mr_genius

[Iwritecode]

He was wandering around as if lost or looking for something. Not suspicious at ALL for someone who lived there.

 

I don't think he did live there. He was staying with someone.

[StrangeSox]

Do you have evidence that George did that? or just that he did it this once? We know he has called the cops, but no mention of race in any of those other calls. otherwise your throwing 'every time' in there is just creating a condition that doesn't exist.

 

I don't claim that Zimmerman called the cops on every single person he saw in his neighborhood that he didn't know, but he did do it on multiple occasions as was noted in the various reports/records and these people just happened to be black. I claim that the idea that Martin's being black played no role in Zimmerman's suspicion, that it was based entirely on him walking down the sidewalk at 8PM and looking around, is laughable.

[StrangeSox]

I don't think he did live there. He was staying with someone.

Correct, he was staying with his dad at his dad's girlfriend's (or maybe fiancee's?) house. The only evidence that he was "wandering around looking lost" is Zimmerman's assessment that he 'looked like he was on drugs' and was 'looking at houses.' Looking at houses as you're walking seems pretty normal, and we know that Zimmerman's judgement is deeply flawed.

[Soxbadger]

I don't think he did live there. He was staying with someone.

 

He was with his father at his father's fiancees house. So while he was absolutely entitled to be there, he was unfamiliar with the surroundings.

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

I don't claim that Zimmerman called the cops on every single person he saw in his neighborhood that he didn't know, but he did do it on multiple occasions as was noted in the various reports/records and these people just happened to be black. I claim that the idea that Martin's being black played no role in Zimmerman's suspicion, that it was based entirely on him walking down the sidewalk at 8PM and looking around, is laughable.

I never claimed it had no role either. It certainly did. Along with the other factors here. but you seem to think that since race was involved in any way that it just makes all the rest not matter, he is guilty. Have fun in your circular logic, I have work to do. You have repeated your accusations and assumptions here on almost every page, nothign more you can say will add any new information for me.

[StrangeSox]

he spent 20 minutes walking around a neighborhood in the rain appearing lost. A neighborhood that isn't that big.

 

Martin had an 18 minute phone call with the girl. We don't know that he was wandering around appearing lost or just walking around the block to get some privacy while talking on the phone. Or that he was in the neighborhood for the whole 18 minutes.

 

Why is someone wandering around looking obviously lost suspicious? Why would you call the police on them and think they're a dangerous criminal, an asshole, a f***ing punk for looking lost? Why wouldn't the reasonable, non-racist-but-still-prudent move be to stop and ask the kid if he needs some help?

[StrangeSox]

I never claimed it had no role either. It certainly did. Along with the other factors here. but you seem to think that since race was involved in any way that it just makes all the rest not matter, he is guilty.

 

I haven't said that. I don't know that he's guilty of murder. I do believe that his course of actions should be criminal, probably manslaughter. I don't think there's any reasonable question that his judgements were racist and that he suspected Martin was a f***ing punk and an asshole based on the color of his skin. Even days

[StrangeSox]

He was with his father at his father's fiancees house. So while he was absolutely entitled to be there, he was unfamiliar with the surroundings.

So, if he did look lost, instead of being a good Samaritan and a concerned citizen and helping the young man, Zimmerman assumed he was a criminal thug, called the police, followed him with a gun and ultimately shot him to death. And people still try to argue that his course of action was reasonable and that they'd happily make the same judgement.