BigSqwert Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Seems like those who were pointing at Treyvon for being a thug were pointing at the wrong guy all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Seems like those who were pointing at Treyvon for being a thug were pointing at the wrong guy all along. Maybe if the state had pursued an appropriate charge instead of going for a murder conviction they knew they could never get, he'd be in jail right now and the other stuff wouldn't have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 We'll never know exactly what happened that night, but Zimmerman is sure making it clear that he is the type of guy that would escalate a situation for no particular reason, especially if he was empowered by having a gun around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 18, 2013 -> 05:57 PM) Seems like those who were pointing at Treyvon for being a thug were pointing at the wrong guy all along. It's not impossible that they were both s***heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:35 AM) It's not impossible that they were both s***heads. But thankfully one of them had a gun, so we know the other one must have been at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 He better be able to post bond. He's going to have a hard time making it out of jail alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 08:43 AM) He better be able to post bond. He's going to have a hard time making it out of jail alive. He is in solitary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) But thankfully one of them had a gun, so we know the other one must have been at fault. Didn't we find out last time with his crazy ex-wife that it was all made up and didn't happen? Why don't we, ya know, assume innocence before finding the guy guilty based on media reports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 08:36 AM) But thankfully one of them had a gun, so we know the other one must have been at fault. Who has ever said this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:00 AM) Who has ever said this? He's overstating things a bit but it is worth noting that when there are two crazy assholes and one of them has a gun, it is pretty easy to predict what will happen. If neither do, you're probably just looking at two crazy assholes who got into a fist fight. And that's assuming that Trayvon was such a person -- we don't know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 10:00 AM) Who has ever said this? We've made that decision as a society when we allowed every nut like George Zimmerman who wants to stockpile guns and wander around the streets with them dispensing justice to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:02 AM) He's overstating things a bit but it is worth noting that when there are two crazy assholes and one of them has a gun, it is pretty easy to predict what will happen. If neither do, you're probably just looking at two crazy assholes who got into a fist fight. And that's assuming that Trayvon was such a person -- we don't know that I don't disagree with any of this. I just think it's wrong to portray Martin as a sweet, innocent angel in this situation. It's unfortunate, but he was a big kid who was kicking the s*** out of George Zimmerman that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:10 AM) I don't disagree with any of this. I just think it's wrong to portray Martin as a sweet, innocent angel in this situation. It's unfortunate, but he was a big kid who was kicking the s*** out of George Zimmerman that night. He was a 12 year old eating skittles and skipping home. Get your facts straight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) He was a 12 year old eating skittles and skipping home. Get your facts straight! And George Zimmerman is a hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Where was that narrative? Maybe from internet comments, not the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:13 AM) And George Zimmerman is a hero. Again, who has [rationally] said this? I'm not justifying what George Zimmerman did, and I'm sure as hell not saying he's a good person. He was not guilty of murder though, and a jury of his peers agreed with that. He was likely guilty of manslaughter, and had he been charged with that, he probably would have been given a pretty long jail sentence. Edited November 19, 2013 by witesoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 While I have not been convinced at all that Trayvon was a bad kid, was definitively winning this fistfight, or was the aggressor -- the disturbing thing is how we as a society are largely okay with the thought of these kinds of encounters being fatal, so long as the victim was a bad person or started the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 While I have not been convinced at all that Trayvon was a bad kid, was definitively winning this fistfight, or was the aggressor -- the disturbing thing is how we as a society are largely okay with the thought of these kinds of encounters being fatal, so long as the victim was a bad person or started the fight. I don't think anybody (or at least, very few people) are OK with these kinds of encounters being fatal, but there's a difference between that and whether or not somebody should hold criminal liability for the fatality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:48 AM) I don't think anybody (or at least, very few people) are OK with these kinds of encounters being fatal, but there's a difference between that and whether or not somebody should hold criminal liability for the fatality. Exactly. If I see a crackhead and a drunk duking it out at 1:30 on a Saturday, I don't say to myself "It's OK if one of them stabs/shoots the other and kills them, they are both terrible people incapable of improving their lives." And in this case, I don't even agree that you can't hold criminal liability against Zimmerman - you just can't hold murder against him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) While I have not been convinced at all that Trayvon was a bad kid, was definitively winning this fistfight, or was the aggressor -- the disturbing thing is how we as a society are largely okay with the thought of these kinds of encounters being fatal, so long as the victim was a bad person or started the fight. I wouldn't say i'm "ok" with it, like i'm happy that Martin lost his life for being good at fighting. But at the same time if I'm in Zimmerman's shoes and I feel like i'm about to be killed as a result of someone smashing my head into a curb, and I have a gun on me, I shouldn't have to gamble on whether he'll eventually let up and leave me alone. I should be able to defend myself to the death if necessary. Whether or not Zimmerman should have put himself in that position by tailing Martin in the first place is beside the point. And I think that the sane world all agrees that this is a pretty tragic situation no matter who's at "fault." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Exactly. If I see a crackhead and a drunk duking it out at 1:30 on a Saturday, I don't say to myself "It's OK if one of them stabs/shoots the other and kills them, they are both terrible people incapable of improving their lives." And in this case, I don't even agree that you can't hold criminal liability against Zimmerman - you just can't hold murder against him. Yeah, I was speaking in more general terms and not specifically about this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:47 AM) While I have not been convinced at all that Trayvon was a bad kid, was definitively winning this fistfight, or was the aggressor -- the disturbing thing is how we as a society are largely okay with the thought of these kinds of encounters being fatal, so long as the victim was a bad person or started the fight. ...you were saying? http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/justice/mich...?iref=allsearch (CNN) -- A 19-year-old Detroit woman who was shot and killed on the front porch of a Michigan home had a blood alcohol level nearly three times the legal limit for drivers in the state, according to a toxicology report released Thursday. ... "I don't think the fact that she was intoxicated changes anything," he said. "Her being intoxicated on the toxicology report would make her less of a threat than more of a threat. The bottom line is, he should've called 911 when he heard a disturbance, and we know for a fact that the police would've been there in two minutes. Instead, he did the reverse. He took his shotgun, went on the porch, and blew her head off and then called 911." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) ...you were saying? http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/justice/mich...?iref=allsearch Response time of 2 minutes is not realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 09:38 AM) Again, who has [rationally] said this? Lots of people have said this because this country has a substantial amount of racist s***heads in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 19, 2013 -> 03:22 PM) Response time of 2 minutes is not realistic. Who cares, he shot a woman in the head for knocking on his door. And a couple of months back, we had a police office shoot another young black man to death who was running to him for help after crashing his car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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