Trayvon Martin

[Jenksismyhero]

That is nice but it's just a fig leaf very often. (Someone criticizing the Patriot Act would say the same thing)

 

Except that, again, you can prove the lack of reasonable suspicion. When your s*** is being taped without your knowledge, you don't really have a say in the matter.

 

 

[lostfan]

Except that, again, you can prove the lack of reasonable suspicion. When your s*** is being taped without your knowledge, you don't really have a say in the matter.

Theoretically. That's if you're one of those unarmed who doesn't get shot while they're handcuffed and the officers' story is taken at face value and they're acquitted, and so on.

 

I'm not anti-cop but all authority from the lowest level up to the federal government needs a check on it or else it becomes a self-serving militarized police state unaccountable to the public. Like the CIA in the 1960s.

[iamshack]

Me either. Um I'm going to go ahead and try anyway

 

1. Reasonable suspicion is being black. Not officially, but in practice

2. Reasonable suspicion is communicating with known or suspected foreign terrorists

All sarcasm aside, do you really believe that?

[Soxbadger]

I dislike both.

 

No one likes my solutions though, because people want to live in a fantasy where somehow we are going to eventually win the war on crime/drugs/poverty. Whereas the reality is that we have to accept that those things are going to happen.

 

Its better to stop racist policies and "statistically have more crime." Freedom comes at a cost.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Soxbadger

[lostfan]

All sarcasm aside, do you really believe that?

Yes. Based off both my the experiences of several people I know, and my own life experience to a lesser degree. I know that all police aren't the same too. Why?

[iamshack]

Yes. Based off both my the experiences of several people I know, and my own life experience to a lesser degree. I know that all police aren't the same too. Why?

Well, I don't think it is that bad...maybe I am wrong (newsflash, I am not black)...but while I think being black or hispanic or just poor in general is a factor in whether a police officer will become suspicious, I don't think it is the main one. I think if you are going about your business and don't act like a goof, the cops will leave you alone. There are obviously some instances where a cop is a rogue racist cocksucker and looks to hassle minorities just for s***s, but I think those are extremely rare these days.

 

Usually where it gets messy is if someone is in a place and a time where criminal activity tends to occur frequently, and you fit the profile of someone who might be involved. Is that wrong? Yes. Is it easy to fix and yet still maintain order and provide a police officer with a chance to protect himself? I'm not sure that one is so easy...

[lostfan]

Well, I don't think it is that bad...maybe I am wrong (newsflash, I am not black)...but while I think being black or hispanic or just poor in general is a factor in whether a police officer will become suspicious, I don't think it is the main one. I think if you are going about your business and don't act like a goof, the cops will leave you alone. There are obviously some instances where a cop is a rogue racist cocksucker and looks to hassle minorities just for s***s, but I think those are extremely rare these days.

 

Usually where it gets messy is if someone is in a place and a time where criminal activity tends to occur frequently, and you fit the profile of someone who might be involved. Is that wrong? Yes. Is it easy to fix and yet still maintain order and provide a police officer with a chance to protect himself? I'm not sure that one is so easy...

It doesn't happen as often now but when I was younger, being outside at night wearing dark clothes and a Sox hat, talking to my friend on the corner at night was reason enough to be spread eagled on the hood of a cop car.

[iamshack]

It doesn't happen as often now but when I was younger, being outside at night wearing dark clothes and a Sox hat, talking to my friend on the corner at night was reason enough to be spread eagled on the hood of a cop car.

Well that's inexcusable.

 

It did happen to white kids too though.

[EvilMonkey]

It doesn't happen as often now but when I was younger, being outside at night wearing dark clothes and a Sox hat, talking to my friend on the corner at night was reason enough to be spread eagled on the hood of a cop car.

Not to diminish your experience, but I got that living in Sauk Village in the early 80's. Although not always up against the car, maybe half the time we were just stopped and hassled for a bit.

[lostfan]

Not to diminish your experience, but I got that living in Sauk Village in the early 80's. Although not always up against the car, maybe half the time we were just stopped and hassled for a bit.

I'm sure this happens to white people too. Not trying to be a drama queen or anything I'm just always surprised that people react with disbelief when black people say they really do have a harder time from the cops. Chappelle did a stand up skit about this back in 2000 that was pretty funny.

[Nixon]

The radical left-winger in me says "doing something" about crime is about more than just having more cops.

What, like addressing education, poverty, and recidivism? Those causes are so far left you may as well move to Scandinavia. You pinko f**ot.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Nixon

[lostfan]

What, like addressing education, poverty, and recidivism? Those causes are so far left you may as well move to Scandinavia. You pinko f**ot.

Touche, touche.

[EvilMonkey]

Touche, touche.

At first I thought you said Toure' Toure'

[Jake]

At first I thought you said Toure' Toure'

 

LOL

[Soxbadger]

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/justin-timberlake...-160414775.html

 

File under, I didnt know Stevie Wonder still actively performed.

 

[Y2HH]

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/justin-timberlake...-160414775.html

 

File under, I didnt know Stevie Wonder still actively performed.

 

I wish they'd all boycott playing in Chicago, too.

[RockRaines]

I honestly cant believe this case is still such a big deal especially in a place like chicago where 7 Trayvon Martin's were shot and killed over the weekend.

[Soxbadger]

For me its about the law (which from the beginning I consistently said was not very good) and hopefully preventing future incidents like this.

 

The tragedy is, that it doesnt seem either party was a bad guy. It just seems that its "wrong place, wrong time", so the question is, how can we prevent such a tragedy? If there was no SYG, would Zimmerman have chased/followed?

 

Those are legitimately interesting debates.

 

7 people dying in Chicago, thats not Zimmerman/Martin, thats bad people doing bad things. At a certain point people accept that there is x% of the population who are just going to do bad things and live with the consequences of a free society.

 

So you fix what you can, because you cant solve everything.

[RockRaines]

For me its about the law (which from the beginning I consistently said was not very good) and hopefully preventing future incidents like this.

 

The tragedy is, that it doesnt seem either party was a bad guy. It just seems that its "wrong place, wrong time", so the question is, how can we prevent such a tragedy? If there was no SYG, would Zimmerman have chased/followed?

 

Those are legitimately interesting debates.

 

7 people dying in Chicago, thats not Zimmerman/Martin, thats bad people doing bad things. At a certain point people accept that there is x% of the population who are just going to do bad things and live with the consequences of a free society.

 

So you fix what you can, because you cant solve everything.

Bigger issue:

 

A fight ending in someone getting shot

 

Drive by shooting where an 8 year old dies.

 

I dont give a s*** whats going on in florida, the much larger issue for us is whats going on in our town.

[Balta1701]

Bigger issue:

 

A fight ending in someone getting shot

 

Drive by shooting where an 8 year old dies.

 

I dont give a s*** whats going on in florida, the much larger issue for us is whats going on in our town.

I've got a great idea. Fewer guns in the hands of lunatics.

 

Helps both!

[Soxbadger]

Bigger issue:

 

A fight ending in someone getting shot

 

Drive by shooting where an 8 year old dies.

 

I dont give a s*** whats going on in florida, the much larger issue for us is whats going on in our town.

 

I dont think its about what is a "bigger" issue. I think its about "What issues can I conceivably make an impact on at this current time."

 

Right now the tide is going towards allowing more guns on the street (Illinois just passed CC), what am I supposed to do, bang my head against the wall and hope that I can somehow break it down?

 

There are battles and there are wars. Today what I believe in is losing the battle, so sometimes you take a step back and wait for the consequences. Maybe CC will drop the crime rate, maybe it will do everything the supporters promise. Maybe Ill be right and it will be worse.

 

Who knows, but right now there isnt really a huge amount of support for the position, so instead of fighting about things that are seemingly losers, Id rather focus my time on something that maybe possible to change.

 

Its not like I care anymore or less, its just simply allocating resources to accomplish goals.

[Jenksismyhero]

I dont think its about what is a "bigger" issue. I think its about "What issues can I conceivably make an impact on at this current time."

 

Right now the tide is going towards allowing more guns on the street (Illinois just passed CC), what am I supposed to do, bang my head against the wall and hope that I can somehow break it down?

 

There are battles and there are wars. Today what I believe in is losing the battle, so sometimes you take a step back and wait for the consequences. Maybe CC will drop the crime rate, maybe it will do everything the supporters promise. Maybe Ill be right and it will be worse.

 

Who knows, but right now there isnt really a huge amount of support for the position, so instead of fighting about things that are seemingly losers, Id rather focus my time on something that maybe possible to change.

 

Its not like I care anymore or less, its just simply allocating resources to accomplish goals.

 

With CC laws on the books in every state, fire-arm deaths have been declining over the last ten years. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/FIREARM_...DEATH_RATES.pdf

 

Not sure why you'd think it'll make things worse.

[Soxbadger]

With CC laws on the books in every state, fire-arm deaths have been declining over the last ten years. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/FIREARM_...DEATH_RATES.pdf

 

Not sure why you'd think it'll make things worse.

 

Because even if there is correlation (which we dont know) it does not equal causation.

 

For all I know fire-arm deaths would be going down faster if there was no CC.

 

I cant speculate on that, Id have to look at every single episode of violence and see if CC had some sort of impact.

 

But you are proving my point. At this time you are fighting an extreme uphill battle against CC. So why fight CC right now?

 

Theres nothing to fight about a person being killed in a drive by. I think most reasonable people agree that this shouldnt be allowed. Thus its criminal activity.

 

How do you stop criminals?

 

Thats a far more complicated endeavor than trying to fix a law. Fixing a law can be reasonably accomplished by hundreds of people. Fixing society, well thats going to take a whole lot more manpower.

[Balta1701]

With CC laws on the books in every state, fire-arm deaths have been declining over the last ten years. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/FIREARM_...DEATH_RATES.pdf

 

Not sure why you'd think it'll make things worse.

Because those numbers are improving entirely due to improvements in medical care, not due to decreases in numbers of shootings. The total number of shootings per year recorded by the CDC has actually increased by about 10,000 over that same time period, from 93,000 to about 104,000 (you have to add the deaths to the injuries reported at this website).

 

More people are being shot every year. Fewer are dying, but more are being shot. Either guns are becoming less effective, people are becoming worse shots (guns allowed in bars as the cause?) or medical care has gotten better. It's medical care.

[iamshack]

Because those numbers are improving entirely due to improvements in medical care, not due to decreases in numbers of shootings. The total number of shootings per year recorded by the CDC has actually increased by about 10,000 over that same time period, from 93,000 to about 104,000 (you have to add the deaths to the injuries reported at this website).

 

More people are being shot every year. Fewer are dying, but more are being shot. Either guns are becoming less effective, people are becoming worse shots (guns allowed in bars as the cause?) or medical care has gotten better. It's medical care.

Well, they do say whatever doesn't kill me only makes me stronger...