Trayvon Martin

[iamshack]

If nothing else, the extra liability imposed on the state if they bring charges against people is a real hinderence as well.

 

But there's also NO EVIDENCE that says Martin wasn't perfectly within his rights to defend himself as well.

Do you understand that no state can bring charges against a person who shoots another person if the shooter claims that it was in self-defense and there is no evidence to refute that? It doesn't matter if there is a duty to retreat or a SYG provision. If no one witnessed it, and the forensic evidence doesn't prove otherwise, there is no law on the books that can convict this guy.

 

Now I'm in agreement with you that Zimmerman is guilty, but he's guilty by common sense unfortunately, which only counts in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately, the police seemed to have done a very poor job investigating this incident.

[Balta1701]

Do you understand that no state can bring charges against a person who shoots another person if the shooter claims that it was in self-defense and there is no evidence to refute that? It doesn't matter if there is a duty to retreat or a SYG provision. If no one witnessed it, and the forensic evidence doesn't prove otherwise, there is no law on the books that can convict this guy.

 

Now I'm in agreement with you that Zimmerman is guilty, but he's guilty by common sense unfortunately, which only counts in the court of public opinion. Unfortunately, the police seemed to have done a very poor job investigating this incident.

So there is no state in the country when the fact that he, by his own admission, initiated the conflict and then escalated it would permit a prosecutor to bring charges?

 

If that's the case, then this should be it for concealed carry laws, because that's the other plausible step here. Take away the guy's gun.

[Jenksismyhero]

So there is no state in the country when the fact that he, by his own admission, initiated the conflict and then escalated it would permit a prosecutor to bring charges?

 

If that's the case, then this should be it for concealed carry laws, because that's the other plausible step here. Take away the guy's gun.

 

This is bulls***. Stop spreading lies. He did not "initiate conflict," nor did he admit to doing so.

[BigSqwert]

This is bulls***. Stop spreading lies. He did not "initiate conflict," nor did he admit to doing so.

So you're saying that Zimmerman was minding his own business and Martin approached him and began attacking him for no apparent reason?

[Balta1701]

This is bulls***. Stop spreading lies. He did not "initiate conflict," nor did he admit to doing so.

He didn't admit that he was following a kid around a neighborhood?

[Jenksismyhero]

He didn't admit that he was following a kid around a neighborhood?

 

That's instigating a confrontation? Please.

[Balta1701]

That's instigating a confrontation? Please.

Yes. An unidentified person following me around in a car would freak me out. Especially if I thought I got away and then the person re-found me.

 

That's the kind of thing you tell a 5 year old to run home and hide with mom & dad if it happens to them. It is incredibly aggressive...and then worse if the person gets out of the car.

[mr_genius]

Yes. An unidentified person following me around in a car would freak me out. Especially if I thought I got away and then the person re-found me.

 

That's the kind of thing you tell a 5 year old to run home and hide with mom & dad if it happens to them. It is incredibly aggressive...and then worse if the person gets out of the car.

 

lol. grasping.

[Balta1701]

lol. grasping.

Quite simply, bull. Someone following me for several minutes through a neighborhood when they're in a car and they're not saying why they're following me...as a 17 year old, I'd be scared ****less. If that person approached me then, I'd assume they're out to hurt me. And hey, turns out the guy had a gun, so the kid had every right to be terrified.

[BigSqwert]

lol. grasping.

 

Yeah he had no reason to worry. He only wound up dying.

[BigSqwert]

The next time one of those people downtown tries to hand me a pamphlet, I'm straight up murdering them. Apparently being accosted is enough to initiate a confrontation.

 

 

Just make sure there's a 50 pound and 12 year age difference. Pipsqueaks must die.

Edited April 1, 2012 by BigSqwert

[Balta1701]

Just make sure there's a 50 pound and 12 year age difference. Pipsqueaks must die.

And it might not hurt if the victim is black.

[caulfield12]

A BIG/SUSPICIOUS looking stranger following anyone around in a car when you're only age 17, even if it's in your own neighborhood, shouldn't that be enough to freak you out?

 

Can you really equate the Mormons or Buddhists or airline pamphlet hander-outers (my word, lol) with what happened in this situation?

 

If two white Mormon kids not named Tim Tebow were following Martin around asking to talk with him about the Book of Mormon, would they have ended up dead?

 

Let's put it another way. If it's your daughter walking on her way home from school or the convenience store, and this Martin guy is following her, tell me that YOU wouldn't be SUSPICIOUS and want to protect her!! You certainly wouldn't blame HER for the confrontation. So let's imagine Martin as a girl (because there are girls who weigh a lot more), there's just no way you BLAME her for initiating here. In that case, it goes back to being about race again, more or less.

 

 

[caulfield12]

But has a girl ever been brought up on charges for killing a homeless person?

 

I know many teenagers have in the last 2-3 years, for purposely killing homeless people while roving around in gangs.

Sport killings or initiations.

 

 

Got this in my inbox this morning. Every similar case is coming out of the woodwork. Still waiting for those cases where a white person is shot in their home by an African-American officer.

 

 

On November 19, 2011, my father, 68-year-old Kenneth Chamberlain Sr., was shot and killed in his home in White Plains, New York.

 

My father was a 20-year veteran of the Westchester County Department of Corrections and proudly served the United States of America as a Marine. He stood about 5 feet, 9 inches tall, and he suffered from a heart condition.

 

The events that led to his killing began around 5 a.m., when his medical alert device was accidentally set off, sending a call to the City of White Plains Department of Public Safety. Everything that happened after that was recorded by an audio device installed in my father's home as part of his medical alert system.

 

When the police arrived at my father's home, he and the staff for his medical alert service told them that there was no medical emergency and asked them to leave. And yet they insisted that my father let them into his home, banging loudly on my father's door for over an hour. On the recording, the police can be heard calling my father a "n*****."

 

Ultimately they broke through his apartment door and first shot him with a Taser. He was wearing nothing but boxer shorts when the police began their assault against him. Shortly after that, he was shot with two 40-caliber rounds and killed.

 

My family is asking the Westchester County District Attorney to bring a criminal indictment, and we call on the United States Department of Justice or the New York State Attorney General to prosecute this as a hate crime.

 

Will you sign our petition? Click here to sign and please share with your friends:

 

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=273615&id=38...5FMXQ9x&t=3

Edited April 1, 2012 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Sure, but let me stop all of you there. You're all operating under the assumption that Zimmerman did more than just that, that he initiated the physical confrontation. And sorry, being freaked out doesn't suffice in that situation. If it did, I know a girl who would legally be allowed to kill every homeless person she has ever walked by, as she is terrified of them all.

No, no one said that.

 

I said that following a kid and then approaching him without identifying yourself and your intentions is clearly an aggressive act.

 

It's an act that a normal person would respond to with fear. It's an act where a reasonable person would figure harm could come to them if they didn't get away. And if they got away and then the person found them again...it's an act where a reasonable person would feel cornered and have a legal right to lash out, to "Stand their ground" if you will.

 

He started the whole thing by following a kid through the neighborhood and then getting out of the car and approaching the kid. That was the first aggressive move. "These a**holes always get away", so this time I'm going to follow this one so he doesn't. What happened after that, no one knows, but if Zimmerman doesn't do that first set of aggressive actions towards the kid, follows the 911 operator's suggestions, and doesn't decide "This a**hole isn't getting away", then he wouldn't have wound up needlessly killing a 17 year old kid.

[mr_genius]

Quite simply, bull. Someone following me for several minutes through a neighborhood when they're in a car and they're not saying why they're following me...as a 17 year old, I'd be scared ****less. If that person approached me then, I'd assume they're out to hurt me. And hey, turns out the guy had a gun, so the kid had every right to be terrified.

 

i guess. but right now what witnesses are saying happened is Zimmerman was going to his car to leave and was jumped by Treyvon Martin. Then Treyvon Martin got shot.

Edited April 1, 2012 by mr_genius

[Balta1701]

i guess. but right now what witnesses are saying happened is Zimmerman was going to his car to leave and was jumped by Trayvon. Then Trayvon got shot.

No witnesses have said that other than Zimmerman that I've seen. And as far as I can tell, the confrontation took place far away from his car, in someone's lawn/along the sidewalk.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I've stayed out of this thread because I know no matter what I say I'll be classified as biased because I'm black. But this thread is hilarious. I'm not going to even say good hilarious or bad hilarious. Just that it's hilarious.

[mr_genius]

And it might not hurt if the victim is black.

 

haha, you do know that the NBC reporting where Zimmerman says "He looks suspicious, he's black". was faked right? they even admit it now.

[mr_genius]

Just make sure there's a 50 pound and 12 year age difference.

 

 

selecting an old fatso to fight does increase win %

[Balta1701]

haha, you do know that the NBC reporting where Zimmerman says "He looks suspicious, he's black". was faked right? they even admit it now.

 

Why do you think I've paid any attention to NBC Rather than reading the actual transcripts? You know, the part where he says that the kid is so scared he's running away? And the part where he says "These a**holes always get away"?

[Balta1701]

selecting an old fatso to fight does increase win %

No, you've got it backwards. You need to be a 190-200 lb man taking on a 150 lb or smaller kid.

[Jordan4life_2007]

selecting an old fatso to fight does increase win %

 

lol. This would qualify as very bad hilarious. One, the dude is hardly fat. But I guess you're going off the mugshot from 2005. Two, 28 is old? Wow. I feel washed up as hell.

[mr_genius]

And the part where he says "These a**holes always get away"?

 

there had been a number of breakins and maybe the criminal had eluded apprehension.

[mr_genius]

lol. This would qualify as very bad hilarious. One, the dude is hardly fat. But I guess you're going off the mugshot from 2005. Two, 28 is old? Wow. I feel washed up as hell.

 

you are washed up