Trayvon Martin

[Y2HH]

Now here's the problem. Do the exact same exercise from the other side.

 

You're in a neighborhood you're allowed to be in, a 17 year old, 150 lb 6'2" twig, it's raining, the sun set an hour beforehand so it's at the very least quite dark, you're trying to get home, walking with some skittles alone. You're on the phone with someone. Suddenly, some guy starts following you in his truck. He continues following you. You wonder if he's actually following you so you stop to look at him (stated in the 911 call), he stops and continues to look at you. He doesn't take any steps to identify himself. You start to move again, his truck resumes following you. You start to jog, he accelerates.

 

This goes on for a period of at least 8 minutes, based on the timing of phone calls, maybe longer depending on how long Zimmerman was following the kid prior to calling 911.

 

You hide. You think you've lost him. Then, he re-appears (Martin's call to his gf). Then, he gets out of his car and approaches you and yells "What're you doing around here?", again without identifying himself or his purpose. Then, whatever happens, it scares you enough that you wind up screaming (audio tape).

 

You're telling me that you'd just take that in stride? All of that happened before the gunshot. This was literally nearly a 10 minute chase of a car following a kid around the neighborhood. That had to seem like an eternity. And then he comes at you.

 

And in the end, you have every right to be afraid, because the guy's got a gun.

 

I never said any of that.

 

And your entire post is full of speculation and you're basing it all on some tapes and "what you can put together" from those tapes. You weren't there.

 

IF what you are saying is EXACTLY what happened, which you don't actually know...yes, Martin has ever right to be scared, etc...but again, you don't actually know the scene or how it unfolded. You don't know what the neighborhood even looks like, what the roads look like, etc. You're assuming a lot in order to come to your conclusion.

[Balta1701]

I never said any of that.

 

And your entire post is full of speculation and you're basing it all on some tapes and "what you can put together" from those tapes. You weren't there.

 

IF what you are saying is EXACTLY what happened, which you don't actually know...yes, Martin has ever right to be scared, etc...but again, you don't actually know the scene or how it unfolded. You don't know what the neighborhood even looks like, what the roads look like, etc. You're assuming a lot in order to come to your conclusion.

You just did the exact same thing to defend him!

[StrangeSox]

1111 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, Seminole, Florida 32771

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=...ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg

 

Long Oak Way and Twin Trees Lane listed as nearest intersection at start of call.

[Y2HH]

You just did the exact same thing to defend him!

 

I laid out no such thing to defend him.

 

You need to go back and start reading again.

 

I've been MORE than clear that while I think Zimmerman has every right to be suspicious, I never defend any further action he took. I simply laid out a situation, not all that similar but a related situation nonetheless where I said I'd have gotten increasingly more suspicious if the person I asked the question too didn't respond, put a hood on and started jogging away.

 

But I never said he should chase him...I'm not defending that in any regard. I'm merely pointing out that of course his suspicion grew.

 

And yes, on the flip side of that coin, I also don't blame Martin for being scared (IF the exaction situation you laid out is true!), and it very well may be!

[Y2HH]

1111 Retreat View Cir, Sanford, Seminole, Florida 32771

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=...ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg

 

Long Oak Way and Twin Trees Lane listed as nearest intersection at start of call.

 

That doesn't help, whatsoever.

 

It doesn't recreate the scene at the time in any regard. It was darker, it was raining, etc.

[StrangeSox]

That doesn't help, whatsoever.

 

It doesn't recreate the scene at the time in any regard. It was darker, it was raining, etc.

 

I was curious and thought others might be as well. That's not the mental image I had in my mind.

[Y2HH]

I was curious and thought others might be as well. That's not the mental image I had in my mind.

 

Yes, but shots like that can be very deceptive...that just happened to be a really good day to have been taking pictures.

[StrangeSox]

Yes, but shots like that can be very deceptive...that just happened to be a really good day to have been taking pictures.

 

I was just looking at the overhead map of the complex to get an idea of the terrain and the google street view of the entrances.

[Texsox]

God forbid I try to remain neutral and see it through Zimmerman's eyes instead of just assuming that he's a dirty, gun-toting racist looking to kill a black kid!

 

 

Do gated communities have "public" sidewalks?

 

I live in a gated community and our sidewalks and streets are not public insofar as we paid for them and we maintain them. The police are opf course allowed in. I'm not certain if we can necessarily have someone arrested for walking on "our" streets, but I doubt it.

 

Zimmerman is not responsible for nor has knowledge of every individual within the community and those who may legitimately be there as guests regardless of whether the community is otherwise open to the public.

 

There was no reason to suspect Trayvon Martin of having done anything wrong. His actions were not reasonable.

 

Again, just speaking for my small development of about 20 homes. It would be very out of place for someone to be walking down our streets and quite frankly they would be watched. And people being people, if the person was white, they are probably heading towards my house, black to the house about five down from me, and about anywhere if Hispanic. We have a very set routine and look of our neighborhood.

 

I wouldn't be suspicious of someone walking down the street in front of my house. People do it all day, every day. I've never stopped anyone to question why they were in the neighborhood.

 

Zimmerman never approached or questioned Martin until the final altercation, though. He followed him around the neighborhood for several minutes, which, from Martin's point of view, is reasonably suspicious behavior. I know I'd be looking for alternative escape routes if someone was following me around.

 

From what I have read so far, I believe Martin had more of a reason to fear Zimmerman than Zimmerman to fear Martin. Yet most people believe the person with the most to fear was totally passive and the person with the least to fear was the only aggressor.

 

It could be that way. But it sure seems to me that two people who feared each other met and a tragedy happened. The blame will not be 100-0. I still believe that Zimmerman was more, much more, to blame. However, I would not be surprised if a scared Martin decided the best defense was a strong offense and decided that Zimmerman was a threat and needed to be stopped.

[Steve9347]

I've stayed out of this thread because I know no matter what I say I'll be classified as biased because I'm black. But this thread is hilarious. I'm not going to even say good hilarious or bad hilarious. Just that it's hilarious.

Wow. That's awful. I'd actually like to know your opinion vs having the same 5 f***s repeat themselves ad nauseum in this thread for another 2 weeks.

[StrangeSox]

[Y2HH]

Wow. That's awful. I'd actually like to know your opinion vs having the same 5 f***s repeat themselves ad nauseum in this thread for another 2 weeks.

 

Because us five force you to read what we write with threats of great and irreversible "Internet" harm.

[Steve9347]

Because us five force you to read what we write with threats of great and irreversible "Internet" harm.

Or, perhaps, PERHAPS, I clicked on the thread to see if there was something new since I was sick last week and offline most of the weekend while exploring New York. However, the arguments were just all the same s*** re-typed over and over and over and over.

[iamshack]

Or, perhaps, PERHAPS, I clicked on the thread to see if there was something new since I was sick last week and offline most of the weekend while exploring New York. However, the arguments were just all the same s*** re-typed over and over and over and over.

I know I, for one, definitely missed you, Steve.

[EvilMonkey]

Just somethign to bring up, all thru this thread I see Zimmerman referred to as 220lb to 240lb or more. But yet I have read several articles that have Zimmerman listed as 'average build'. Being as short as he was, an average build wouldn't be 220+lbs. And I saw the same video you all saw at the police station. If he was 220 and that short, he wold be a squat little fireplug of a man. Another story had said the higher weight amount came from his 2005 mug shot and booking and that he had since slimmed down radically. Just throwing it out there that Zimmerman man not have been as 'imposing' as some of you are making him out to be (sans gun, at least) and perhaps the closer weight difference coupled with Treyvon's half a foot height advantage could have emboldened him to aggressively confront Zimmerman.

[mr_genius]

haha ok. why is this lady always wearing a pink cowboy hat. she's in congress or something. FOX news keeps showing her giving press conferences about this case.

 

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Feds now officially actively involved.

FBI agents on Monday were questioning potential witnesses in the Trayvon Martin shooting, confirming to NBC News that the agency had begun a "parallel investigation" that focuses on whether the teen's civil rights were violated.

 

Agents are seeking information on George Zimmerman's background and whether he was racially motivated when he pursued Martin after calling a 911 police dispatcher about his presence in the community, an FBI official told NBC.

 

The agents were at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman, the gated community's neighborhood watch captain.

 

The state of Florida is conducting its own investigation in the shooting and that one is being overseen by a special prosecutor.

 

Although the Justice Department two weeks ago publicly announced it would examine potential civil rights violations, the arrival of bureau agents represents a new phase in inquiries into the case.

 

A senior law enforcement official confirmed that one potential piece of evidence is records of Zimmerman's prior 911 calls to police dispatchers.

 

The call sheets show that five of seven phone calls Zimmerman had made since last August involved what he viewed as suspicious activity by young men identified as "black males." But the call sheets do not indicate whether Zimmerman was asked about the race of the suspects or volunteered that information.

[iamshack]

Feds now officially actively involved.

That would seem like a pretty "slender reed," as the robes like to write, for which to charge Zimmerman on, at least in light of everything else that has occurred.

[Texsox]

BTW, just to help with understanding, gated communities seem to be much more common in the south than in the north. I assume it is in part because of the cost of snow removal. I have not seen any pictures of the neighborhood but here "gated communities" can be anything from very modest (like mine), lower middle class, to the mega millions.

[Texsox]

I'm wondering if Zimmerman can receive a fair trial anywhere?

[iamshack]

BTW, just to help with understanding, gated communities seem to be much more common in the south than in the north. I assume it is in part because of the cost of snow removal. I have not seen any pictures of the neighborhood but here "gated communities" can be anything from very modest (like mine), lower middle class, to the mega millions.

I think it has more to do with it being a more recent phenomenon, and most new development has occurred in the South and Southwest. But I could certainly be wrong.

[mr_genius]

I'm wondering if Zimmerman can receive a fair trial anywhere?

 

imagine the jury that is on that trial.

 

NBC news would plaster their names and addresses on every news cast, suggesting that possibly a "bounty" should be placed on their heads if they do not convict.

Edited April 4, 2012 by mr_genius

[Balta1701]

BTW, just to help with understanding, gated communities seem to be much more common in the south than in the north. I assume it is in part because of the cost of snow removal. I have not seen any pictures of the neighborhood but here "gated communities" can be anything from very modest (like mine), lower middle class, to the mega millions.

The other big motivation is "Security".

 

Whether or not the demographics of an area play into that, I leave to the gallery.

[Texsox]

The other big motivation is "Security".

 

Whether or not the demographics of an area play into that, I leave to the gallery.

 

 

No doubt that was a prime motivator for us. We travel three months out of the year. Having a neighborhood watch, home security system, dead end with a gate at the end of the street, all appealed to us when we were looking for a new place. The gate is more psychological than anything else. Every delivery guy in town knows the code.

[EvilMonkey]

50 year old white man beaten with a hammer by two black teens and left for dead in the street 6 miles from Sanford, FL. Currently hanging on, barely. No word from Al 'Let's escalate this baby!' Sharpton or Jessie.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/deputies-men...-sanford/nMHW6/