Trayvon Martin

[StrangeSox]

"His life is over, he can't even walk into a 7/11 without fear!"

 

Contrast with Trayvon's life literally being over because Zimmerman shot him to death as he was walking home from a 7/11.

[iamshack]

I'm with 2k5. If there was an obvious piece of exonerating evidence beyond what we've seen reported already, there's no way this case gets this far.

But that's not the game...the game is that you have to prove he is guilty; he doesn't have to prove he's innocent.

 

Secondly, he wasn't originally charged for a reason. Since then, there has been a s***storm of controversy. Now he is being charged.

 

I don't have a clue what is going on.

 

But if the prosecutor was pressured by the Governor or someone else to bring charges just to let some of the pressure out of this thing, I doubt she would lose her job if he isn't convicted.

[Balta1701]

But that's not the game...the game is that you have to prove he is guilty; he doesn't have to prove he's innocent.

 

Secondly, he wasn't originally charged for a reason. Since then, there has been a s***storm of controversy. Now he is being charged.

 

I don't have a clue what is going on.

 

But if the prosecutor was pressured by the Governor or someone else to bring charges just to let some of the pressure out of this thing, I doubt she would lose her job if he isn't convicted.

Well, I have no special insight, but I will at least raise the possibility that he wasn't charged initially because he shot a black kid.

 

If the prosecutor was pressured to bring charges by someone, yeah they won't necessarily lose their job, but they're going to be more than happy to make that known once the case is over.

[southsider2k5]

But that's not the game...the game is that you have to prove he is guilty; he doesn't have to prove he's innocent.

 

Secondly, he wasn't originally charged for a reason. Since then, there has been a s***storm of controversy. Now he is being charged.

 

I don't have a clue what is going on.

 

But if the prosecutor was pressured by the Governor or someone else to bring charges just to let some of the pressure out of this thing, I doubt she would lose her job if he isn't convicted.

 

Having a piece of evidence proving Zimmerman was the victim would be the quickest way to let the pressure off of this case. So would something that shows Zimmerman actually set out to shoot Martin.

[Balta1701]

"His life is over, he can't even walk into a 7/11 without fear!"

 

Contrast with Trayvon's life literally being over because Zimmerman shot him to death as he was walking home from a 7/11.

Yeah, I just read that as him going to a generic store/bank/whatever and them using that to raise the sympathy card without catching that they specifically said the same store that the victim was walking to. Totally missed the fact that the defense could come right back and note that Martin couldn't walk to a 7/11 either. They can still play the "can't go to the store" card, but they might want to avoid calling it a 7/11.

[Balta1701]

Having a piece of evidence proving Zimmerman was the victim would be the quickest way to let the pressure off of this case. So would something that shows Zimmerman actually set out to shoot Martin.

Actually, if they had some way of firmly establishing that and they weren't required to release it yet, wouldn't that be the thing you keep private as long as you can as a bargaining chip?

[southsider2k5]

Actually, if they had some way of firmly establishing that and they weren't required to release it yet, wouldn't that be the thing you keep private as long as you can as a bargaining chip?

 

No way. You'd hammer them with it, and then file to prosecute as soon as possible.

[iamshack]

Having a piece of evidence proving Zimmerman was the victim would be the quickest way to let the pressure off of this case. So would something that shows Zimmerman actually set out to shoot Martin.

But it's something that might come out later...now his lawyers are going to be turning over every stone...you don't know what might come out of the woodwork now...

[southsider2k5]

But it's something that might come out later...now his lawyers are going to be turning over every stone...you don't know what might come out of the woodwork now...

 

With the feeding frenzy over this case, the goal on both sides is to not have this go to trial. For Zimmerman it is a no win situation. He wants to be cleared without the ordeal of a trial. Maybe they find something later, but with the publicity over this case, I can't imagine something has stayed hidden this long.

 

If the prosecution had something to clear up his guilt, they wouldn't have dicked around and let him free for so long. They would have arrested and charged Zimmerman long ago.

[Soxbadger]

This thread is all over the place.

 

I am not sure what happened after the shooting (ie the media) is relevant to this case. Obviously the position taken by the defense will be that the relevance is that but for media outrage there never would have been any charges. But the idea of Zimmerman's fear, that really does nothing but try and make Zimmerman out to be someone who is weak and cant protect themselves (subliminal message that Zimmerman had to use deadly force against Martin because Zimmerman is so mentally/physically weak that he fears everything.)

 

That being said, objections in opening and closing are very rare, usually they are just to try and disrupt the other side.

 

Now onto the evidence arguments.

 

We have no idea what the prosecutor has or doesnt have. Some attorneys like to sandbag their case, others like to use the best evidence as leverage, it is impossible to tell what the strategy is here.

 

Trying to reason based on what the first prosecutor did is meaningless. The first prosecutor didnt prosecute because they were worried about their conviction rate. Zimmerman was not a great defendant to prosecute, his father is a judge, which means he likely would get an attorney, he likely will not quickly plea or say something stupid.

 

As for a plea?

 

I would consider it unlikely. There is just no way they are going to be able to knock those charges down low enough where Zimmerman wouldnt have to spend time in jail. I cant see him agreeing to that, so Im guessing it goes to trial.

 

There just are never going to be good facts in a case where there are 2 witnesses and 1 of them is dead and the other is the killer. That being said, unless there is something that really proves Zimmerman was in life threatening danger, he really is fighting an up hill battle. Even if Martin had any weapon it would have been an easier defense, but when you have an unarmed 17 year old, it just is hard to say you had to shoot him to save your life, especially when you didnt suffer any severe injuries (severe being subjective.)

Edited April 12, 2012 by Soxbadger

[iamshack]

With the feeding frenzy over this case, the goal on both sides is to not have this go to trial. For Zimmerman it is a no win situation. He wants to be cleared without the ordeal of a trial. Maybe they find something later, but with the publicity over this case, I can't imagine something has stayed hidden this long.

 

If the prosecution had something to clear up his guilt, they wouldn't have dicked around and let him free for so long. They would have arrested and charged Zimmerman long ago.

I think you are making a LOT of assumptions...

 

I remember the OJ trial and that dwarfed this in comparison as far as publicity...there were twists and turns in that thing that were not able to be anticipated...

 

You may be right, and he might plea tomorrow...but I think there is still a lot of crap that can unfold.

[southsider2k5]

I think you are making a LOT of assumptions...

 

I remember the OJ trial and that dwarfed this in comparison as far as publicity...there were twists and turns in that thing that were not able to be anticipated...

 

You may be right, and he might plea tomorrow...but I think there is still a lot of crap that can unfold.

 

Everything in this trail is assumptions. I clearly stated that I was guessing based on common sense. Anyone claiming to know what is going on is full of s***.

[StrangeSox]

What I know is that I care much more about him being charged, then I do about him being convicted. What always rankled about this case wasn't that Zimmerman might not see a jail cell (that's what judges and juries determine) but that law enforcement had done everything to foreclose that possibility. We may find that they still have. I imagine a lot was lost in bungling. But at the very least this says, "We take the loss of life seriously."

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...-martin/255753/

[Soxbadger]

That guy isnt even following the case at all.

 

LAW ENFORCEMENT ASKED THE PROSECUTOR TO CHARGE ZIMMERMAN.

 

This time it was not the police's fault, it was all on the Prosecutor. Why do people keep blaming "law enforcement", when it was the Prosecutor, who is not part of the Police Department.

 

So frustrating to hear everyone blame the police when it wasnt them this time.

[iamshack]

Everything in this trail is assumptions. I clearly stated that I was guessing based on common sense. Anyone claiming to know what is going on is full of s***.

Well you certainly have been making definitive statements for someone that is just making assumptions and guessing.

 

I have admitted I don't know what's going on and I am excited to see how it all unfolds.

 

You and Balta both turned into Perry Mason for about an hour there.

[southsider2k5]

Well you certainly have been making definitive statements for someone that is just making assumptions and guessing.

 

I have admitted I don't know what's going on and I am excited to see how it all unfolds.

 

You and Balta both turned into Perry Mason for about an hour there.

 

I think you missed the first thousand posts in this thread or so.

[iamshack]

I think you missed the first thousand posts in this thread or so.

No, I've clearly participated in them.

 

I think you're just trying to back off of what you said previously after seeing Badger weigh in on some of those issues.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

No, I've clearly participated in them.

 

I think you're just trying to back off of what you said previously after seeing Badger weigh in on some of those issues.

 

I said it in the first post. Do you really need a disclaimer in every single subsequent post?

[iamshack]

I said it in the first post. Do you really need a disclaimer in every single subsequent post?

Oh come on man...disclaimers of "I'm just guessing here" don't work too well when you then go around dismissing all other opinions the way you and Balta were doing...

[southsider2k5]

Oh come on man...disclaimers of "I'm just guessing here" don't work too well when you then go around dismissing all other opinions the way you and Balta were doing...

 

Oh please. This whole thread is full of screaming hysteria, and this is what you start freaking out about? Same old stuff, different day.

[Jenksismyhero]

This thread is pretty hilarious to read.

[Texsox]

In order of most to least likely IMHO

 

Plea arrangement before trial

 

Guilty of a lesser charge

 

Guilty but the judge sets aside the verdict based on the fine points of Florida law. (not certain of the correct legal term)

 

Not guilty and he continues to search for the real killer

[Soxbadger]

So if im reading the news right, Zimmerman is being held without bond, which is basically the worst possible result right now. Although his attorney may want Zimmerman in jail for the 1.5 months so that it counts as time served against his sentence. It also appears that his lawyer is not asking for a hearing on the merits (which under Fla SYG law he may have been entitled to) and instead Zimmerman has plead not guilty.

 

If I was reading between the lines, id say that his defense team is trying to set up for a plea of manslaughter 1-2 years jail time, with Zimmerman getting credit for about 3-6 months served before the plea is entered.

 

As for what I think will happen:

 

Guilty of Manslaughter at trial.

 

Im not sure they will be able to prove 2nd degree murder, that will all turn on whether Zimmerman showed a depraved mind and no regard for human life. The best chance a prosecutor would have is using the 911 tape to show that Zimmerman disregarded the 911 instructions. Also I would use the fact that Zimmerman was "Community Watch" and that Community Watch programs are specifically instructed not to intervene, so he knew that intervention was an act that could end a life.

 

That being said, still seems hard to go for. My guess is that jury settles on manslaughter, especially because Florida law requires that if its Murder 2 with a gun, minimum sentence is 25 years.

 

Hmm after reading this:

 

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/index.html

 

Mandates a minimum 25 years to LIFE if someone is injured or killed

 

Im not sure what can happen, because that seems to say that there is a minimum sentence of 25 years regardless of the charge.

 

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index....s/0775.087.html

 

Hmm okay so maybe that is why they charged Murder 2:

 

(1) Unless otherwise provided by law, whenever a person is charged with a felony, except a felony in which the use of a weapon or firearm is an essential element, and during the commission of such felony the defendant carries, displays, uses, threatens to use, or attempts to use any weapon or firearm, or during the commission of such felony the defendant commits an aggravated battery, the felony for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as follows:

 

c) In the case of a felony of the third degree, to a felony of the second degree.

 

That would suggest that originally the prosecutor thought manslaughter, but due to Florida law had to bump it up to Murder 2.

 

The law giveth and the law taketh away.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

Mandatory minimums are dumb

[Texsox]

Mandatory minimums are dumb

 

 

Yes.