Trayvon Martin

[Balta1701]

17 is still a child?

Over 200 countries in the world have ratified a United Nations agreement stating that people below 18 do not have a complete emotional level of development, which is generally born out by science. The couple countries that haven't ratified that agreement are, Somalia, South Sudan (which has existed for a few months), and the United States. The US has not ratified it because it would make it much more difficult to try people below 18 as an adult.

 

The US, however, considers 17 year olds to be a child in many ways. They can't for example, buy and carry a gun. They can't buy tobacco. They can't buy alcohol.

[StrangeSox]

"so-called prosecutor"

Edited April 15, 2012 by StrangeSox

[lostfan]

It is fantastic but not for the reason the artist intended.

Being white must suck so much ass. Everything's so unfair!

 

(Yeah yeah I know Zimmerman is "not white" etc. etc. etc.)

[StrangeSox]

Being white must suck so much ass. Everything's so unfair!

 

(Yeah yeah I know Zimmerman is "not white" etc. etc. etc.)

 

Yeah, there wouldn't even be a trial if the media hadn't gotten involved. But now it's a big lynch mob because there's going to be an actual trial now? What?

[Y2HH]

Yeah, there wouldn't even be a trial if the media hadn't gotten involved. But now it's a big lynch mob because there's going to be an actual trial now? What?

 

It's ok to admit that without the media there probably wouldn't be a trial.

 

It's also ok to admit that a lot of the media has also corrupted the process of innocent until proven guilty along the way of bringing attention to this.

[Balta1701]

It's ok to admit that without the media there probably wouldn't be a trial.

 

It's also ok to admit that a lot of the media has also corrupted the process of innocent until proven guilty along the way of bringing attention to this.

"Corrupted the process" should only matter to a certain level though.

 

Even if there is enormous coverage, the guy can and should still get a fair trial. If somehow the media has prevented that from happening then you can be genuinely outraged, but hell, we somehow tried OJ fairly, this state somehow tried Casey Anthony fairly. Change the venue, change the judge because of an indirect connection to CNN's broadcast team, and then it's up to the state to prove their case beyond a reasonable doub.t

 

The process is only corrupt if the person can't get a fair trial, and I don't believe that.

[Texsox]

Being white must suck so much ass. Everything's so unfair!

 

(Yeah yeah I know Zimmerman is "not white" etc. etc. etc.)

It does man, we can't jump, dance, rap . . .

[Y2HH]

"Corrupted the process" should only matter to a certain level though.

 

Even if there is enormous coverage, the guy can and should still get a fair trial. If somehow the media has prevented that from happening then you can be genuinely outraged, but hell, we somehow tried OJ fairly, this state somehow tried Casey Anthony fairly. Change the venue, change the judge because of an indirect connection to CNN's broadcast team, and then it's up to the state to prove their case beyond a reasonable doub.t

 

The process is only corrupt if the person can't get a fair trial, and I don't believe that.

 

You're absolutely right, it should only matter to a certain level, but that's not always the case. If the judges/juries appointed to hear the case do their jobs properly, it wouldn't/shouldn't matter. Since you want to invoke Casey Anthony and OJ and how they got fair trails, allow me to invoke Drew Peterson...where the courts are allowing 'hearsay' evidence against him. I think that's wrong on so many levels it's not even funny, and in no way can it be considered "fair". My personal opinion on Peterson is a different matter entirely...he's a creep to the Nth degree...but he's also being railroaded right now and nobody cares because it's him.

 

I think we want to believe the system is fair/working properly, but I think we know that in many cases it's really not. Ive seen it in action when sitting on a jury myself, and not a single person on the jury cared one way or the other...all they wanted to go was go home. That experience soured me on our awesome "peer system". I think the trial of your peers monicker sounds great...but it only works if the people involved care. Sadly, I'd say most do not. And I'd argue the only reason they pretend to care on huge trials like this one is they see $ book deals when all is said and done.

[StrangeSox]

Maybe Peterson is being railroaded, but he hasn't been a big news story for several years now. Either way, there's obvious counter-points to the idea that media attention precludes a fair trial, which was Balta's point.

 

You can always request a bench trial instead of a jury trial.

[Balta1701]

You're absolutely right, it should only matter to a certain level, but that's not always the case. If the judges/juries appointed to hear the case do their jobs properly, it wouldn't/shouldn't matter. Since you want to invoke Casey Anthony and OJ and how they got fair trails, allow me to invoke Drew Peterson...where the courts are allowing 'hearsay' evidence against him. I think that's wrong on so many levels it's not even funny, and in no way can it be considered "fair". My personal opinion on Peterson is a different matter entirely...he's a creep to the Nth degree...but he's also being railroaded right now and nobody cares because it's him.

 

I think we want to believe the system is fair/working properly, but I think we know that in many cases it's really not. Ive seen it in action when sitting on a jury myself, and not a single person on the jury cared one way or the other...all they wanted to go was go home. That experience soured me on our awesome "peer system". I think the trial of your peers monicker sounds great...but it only works if the people involved care. Sadly, I'd say most do not. And I'd argue the only reason they pretend to care on huge trials like this one is they see $ book deals when all is said and done.

If you can suggest a better legal system than the one we currently have, I'd be happy to listen. I feel like my response is going to be that this is the worst system we could have...except for all the others.

 

If the case you cited didn't get a fair trial, then why didn't it fall apart on appeal? He certainly has that right.

[StrangeSox]

If you can suggest a better legal system than the one we currently have, I'd be happy to listen. I feel like my response is going to be that this is the worst system we could have...except for all the others.

 

If the case you cited didn't get a fair trial, then why didn't it fall apart on appeal? He certainly has that right.

 

The French have a non-adversarial justice system.

[StrangeSox]

Also the Drew Peterson trial still hasn't started

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-574...-peterson-case/

[Balta1701]

Also the Drew Peterson trial still hasn't started

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-574...-peterson-case/

Oh, that case, I crossed up with the "Laci Peterson" or whatever her name was case from last decade.

[StrangeSox]

True story, I met Drew Peterson at Bar Louie in Bolingbrook after a Sox game shortly after all this s*** started going down. He was a giant creep.

[Y2HH]

If you can suggest a better legal system than the one we currently have, I'd be happy to listen. I feel like my response is going to be that this is the worst system we could have...except for all the others.

 

If the case you cited didn't get a fair trial, then why didn't it fall apart on appeal? He certainly has that right.

 

First, I hate it when people invoke the "if you can suggest a better legal system" line, because it really doesn't mean anything, nor add anything to the conversation.

 

Why do I have to suggest a better legal system? Why can't we discuss our thoughts on the legal system we have, instead? I'm pointing out some flaws in system we have...but of course that always leads to the good old, "suggest a better system then". How about no...I'm not going to suggest a better system which, even if we came up with the PERFECT system on SoxTalk, they'd NEVER adopt anyway. Something needs to be done to get the people involved to care about the system again, to care about their civic duties and not look at them as an inconvenience...so people like Zimmerman can -- without a doubt -- get the fair trial they deserve.

 

It IS possible for the media to corrupt or sway trials one way or another. IF the system, and the people IN the system do their jobs as they SHOULD, it would be fair...but that's not always the case. I've witnessed this first hand as I'm sure many others have, too. The point remains that just because OJ got a fair trial that Zimmerman will too, is, at best, reaching for the stars.

[StrangeSox]

But there's no reason to presuppose that he won't get a fair trial.

[Y2HH]

True story, I met Drew Peterson at Bar Louie in Bolingbrook after a Sox game shortly after all this s*** started going down. He was a giant creep.

 

I met him at Medieval Times a few years back...and yea...just the vibe around him is that of creepiness. I wish I could put it in better terms or describe it better...but it's like...being around slime that permeates the air and makes you feel like slime, too.

[Jenksismyhero]

But there's no reason to presuppose that he won't get a fair trial.

 

It'll be much like the Casey Anthony situation but worse. The "public," or at least a large portion of it, has already determined he's guilty. So God help him if he gets off. He'll have to go into hiding and fear for his life for a long time.

 

Of course, i'm sure the response is "so what, that's why he gets for killing a kid eating skittles."

[Iwritecode]

Something needs to be done to get the people involved to care about the system again, to care about their civic duties and not look at them as an inconvenience...so people like Zimmerman can -- without a doubt -- get the fair trial they deserve.

 

I've mentioned this before but for me it's easy. Pay me my regular day's wages and I'll be happy to sit on a jury. $11 a day won't pay my bills.

[Y2HH]

It'll be much like the Casey Anthony situation but worse. The "public," or at least a large portion of it, has already determined he's guilty. So God help him if he gets off. He'll have to go into hiding and fear for his life for a long time.

 

Of course, i'm sure the response is "so what, that's why he gets for killing a kid eating skittles."

 

Yea, people like to dismiss things like this, because you know, after the trial is over, people will respect the outcome!

 

Bartman had to go into hiding over a f***ing foul ball...so let's just imagine what this guy will have to go through if he's acquitted.

 

The issue is, whether he's gets acquitted or not...a good portion of this guys life is already over, severely limited, or otherwise compromised.

[StrangeSox]

I've mentioned this before but for me it's easy. Pay me my regular day's wages and I'll be happy to sit on a jury. $11 a day won't pay my bills.

 

That really sucks that a lot of employers do this. I have to turn in my $11 check or whatever it is as proof that I went, but I otherwise receive my normal pay.

[Y2HH]

That really sucks that a lot of employers do this. I have to turn in my $11 check or whatever it is as proof that I went, but I otherwise receive my normal pay.

 

Same, I also receive normal pay.

[Iwritecode]

That really sucks that a lot of employers do this. I have to turn in my $11 check or whatever it is as proof that I went, but I otherwise receive my normal pay.

 

My old job would've done this. Of course I never got called in the 11 years I worked there. The job I have now doesn't and I got called a month after I started here.

 

Go figure.

[Soxbadger]

The issue is, whether he's gets acquitted or not...a good portion of this guys life is already over, severely limited, or otherwise compromised.

 

You are right, I do truly feel terrible that the person who killed a 17 year old, is now dealing with the ramifications of that act.

 

Its called personal responsibility. If you dont want to have to deal with the fall out of shooting someone, dont do it. No one forced Zimmerman to shoot, and whether or not hes justified, acquitted, found to be St. Peter, he still has to live with his own actions.

 

If he is acquitted and other people want to break the law, there is nothing that society can do to stop them. So maybe he has to move to Canada, or maybe he just has to move to a different community. Either way, he has options.

 

There are consequences for shooting someone else, even if it is entirely justified.

[Y2HH]

You are right, I do truly feel terrible that the person who killed a 17 year old, is now dealing with the ramifications of that act.

 

Its called personal responsibility. If you dont want to have to deal with the fall out of shooting someone, dont do it. No one forced Zimmerman to shoot, and whether or not hes justified, acquitted, found to be St. Peter, he still has to live with his own actions.

 

If he is acquitted and other people want to break the law, there is nothing that society can do to stop them. So maybe he has to move to Canada, or maybe he just has to move to a different community. Either way, he has options.

 

There are consequences for shooting someone else, even if it is entirely justified.

 

Just as there are consequences to catching a foul ball.

 

Don't justify stupidity of people, in either regard. We get it, you're against guns, but if Zimmerman actually used it in self-defense, he did nothing wrong, REGARDLESS of your personal opinion.

 

If he didn't use it in self defense, however, then he SHOULD deal with the ramifications of shooting someone...but ONLY if that's the case.

 

Way to let him have a fair trail. Your attitude is EXACTLY what's wrong with this case right now.

 

And as for your last line of insanity there...we disagree. You cant state an opinion as fact, as you just tried to do. I'm sorry (sarcasm), but if you broke into my house, and I shot you dead...I wouldn't care one bit about you being dead. The only "consequence" is you died being a f***face, and my family is alive and well...hopefully.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Y2HH