Trayvon Martin

[iamshack]

I think the media attention to these things is just ridiculously out of hand. When our justice system was originally put in place, 24 hour national news coverage was obviously never considered.

 

Perhaps there are some special circumstances which could be created for crimes that receive so much national coverage.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

y2hh,

 

Don't justify stupidity of people, in either regard. We get it, you're against guns, but if Zimmerman actually used it in self-defense, he did nothing wrong, REGARDLESS of your personal opinion.

 

Well that is your opinion, and Im entitled to my opinion. Doing something wrong, is a subjective statement. I can think there is nothing wrong with eating meat during lent or that there is nothing wrong with breaking kosher, it doesnt mean a hill of beans if you think that there is something wrong with that.

 

Whether or not he did something "wrong" is in fact subjective opinion. So you are entitled to your opinion, just like I am entitled to my opinion.

 

I never said that anyone should hurt Zimmerman, the court is the one who determines punishment. If Zimmerman was found not guilty and I met him, I would not want to hurt him or attack him or do anything, I may disagree with his actions, but that would be the end of it. I am absolutely entitled to have that opinion.

 

Being found not guilty or acquitted, does not mean that everyone has to change their mind. Look at OJ, found not guilty at criminal trial, liable at civil trial. Shouldnt the Goldman's have stopped because OJ was found not guilty? Dont they have to change their opinion just because the trial court said so?

 

Yeah didnt think so.

 

If he didn't use it in self defense, however, then he SHOULD deal with the ramifications of shooting someone...but ONLY if that's the case.

 

Why?

 

People deal with the ramifications of legal conduct every day.

 

Lets say Im legally driving and a girl runs in the street and I hit and kill her. It is determined that it was entirely unavoidable, yet I cant sleep at night and I feel guilty. The parents of the girl still think that I wasnt paying attention and the community thinks negatively off me.

 

Right or wrong, those people are entitled to have their opinions, and I am forced to deal with the consequences.

 

Way to let him have a fair trail. Your attitude is EXACTLY what's wrong with this case right now.

 

What are you talking about?

 

I havent said Zimmerman is guilty, I just said that it doesnt matter if he is innocent or guilty, that regardless he is going to have to live with the consequences.

 

How is that what is wrong with the case?

 

If anything that is exactly what the defense attorney is hoping for, jurors who believe that Zimmerman will suffer regardless of going to jail. That way he can argue sending him to jail does nothing, as Zimmerman will already live a crappy existence.

 

His guilt or innocence has nothing to do with that. His guilt rests on the facts, not how people will treat him, not how he feels. I have yet to comment on the facts, Im waiting to hear them.

 

So how is that exactly whats wrong?

 

Is it because you want Zimmerman found not guilty, so you just want to attack anyone who may disagree? Because as of now, I dont know what happened. But you seem extremely confident that Im wrong.

 

(edit)

 

but if you broke into my house, and I shot you dead...I wouldn't care one bit about you being dead. The only "consequence" is you died being a f***face, and my family is alive and well...hopefully

 

And that is absolutely fine. But that doesnt mean that your family wont be traumatized or that there wont be any other consequence. Every action has a consequence, regardless of how minor. Even stopping to tie your shoe has a consequence.

 

Do you disagree that every action results in a consequence, whether good or bad?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

Soxbadger you are what is wrong with America.

[Soxbadger]

Many people would agree, I am what is wrong with America.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Y2HH]

Soxbadger you are what is wrong with America.

 

This is absurd, so don't say it, even in jest.

 

He's actually what's right with America. You know, having an opinion of his own and being willing to discuss it with someone that doesn't see things exactly like him. As opposed to say, nothing but snarky/sarcastic comments that add nothing to the conversation.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Y2HH

[Y2HH]

y2hh,

 

 

 

Well that is your opinion, and Im entitled to my opinion. Doing something wrong, is a subjective statement. I can think there is nothing wrong with eating meat during lent or that there is nothing wrong with breaking kosher, it doesnt mean a hill of beans if you think that there is something wrong with that.

 

Whether or not he did something "wrong" is in fact subjective opinion. So you are entitled to your opinion, just like I am entitled to my opinion.

 

I never said that anyone should hurt Zimmerman, the court is the one who determines punishment. If Zimmerman was found not guilty and I met him, I would not want to hurt him or attack him or do anything, I may disagree with his actions, but that would be the end of it. I am absolutely entitled to have that opinion.

 

Being found not guilty or acquitted, does not mean that everyone has to change their mind. Look at OJ, found not guilty at criminal trial, liable at civil trial. Shouldnt the Goldman's have stopped because OJ was found not guilty? Dont they have to change their opinion just because the trial court said so?

 

Yeah didnt think so.

 

 

 

Why?

 

People deal with the ramifications of legal conduct every day.

 

Lets say Im legally driving and a girl runs in the street and I hit and kill her. It is determined that it was entirely unavoidable, yet I cant sleep at night and I feel guilty. The parents of the girl still think that I wasnt paying attention and the community thinks negatively off me.

 

Right or wrong, those people are entitled to have their opinions, and I am forced to deal with the consequences.

 

 

 

What are you talking about?

 

I havent said Zimmerman is guilty, I just said that it doesnt matter if he is innocent or guilty, that regardless he is going to have to live with the consequences.

 

How is that what is wrong with the case?

 

If anything that is exactly what the defense attorney is hoping for, jurors who believe that Zimmerman will suffer regardless of going to jail. That way he can argue sending him to jail does nothing, as Zimmerman will already live a crappy existence.

 

His guilt or innocence has nothing to do with that. His guilt rests on the facts, not how people will treat him, not how he feels. I have yet to comment on the facts, Im waiting to hear them.

 

So how is that exactly whats wrong?

 

Is it because you want Zimmerman found not guilty, so you just want to attack anyone who may disagree? Because as of now, I dont know what happened. But you seem extremely confident that Im wrong.

 

(edit)

 

 

 

And that is absolutely fine. But that doesnt mean that your family wont be traumatized or that there wont be any other consequence. Every action has a consequence, regardless of how minor. Even stopping to tie your shoe has a consequence.

 

Do you disagree that every action results in a consequence, whether good or bad?

 

No, I don't disagree with the physics that governs the universe in which we live. For ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That doesn't mean, in the eyes of justice, that there should be. If Zimmerman is acquitted, he should be left alone...but that doesn't mean he will be.

 

What's wrong is you say he should have to live with consequences outside of his own conscience. Dealing with your own trauma, physical or emotional from shooting someone is one thing...having to deal with OTHERS now wanting your head on a pike is another entirely. In THIS regard, we disagree. Where you seem to have no problem with people that may retaliate against Zimmerman if he gets off...I do have a problem with it.

[Soxbadger]

having to deal with OTHERS now wanting your head on a pike is another entirely. In THIS regard, we disagree. Where you seem to have no problem with people that may retaliate against Zimmerman if he gets off...I do have a problem with it.

 

Part of life is dealing with other people who may not like you. People breaking the law to retaliate, should be treated as criminals and prosecuted. They are 2 different things entirely. I dont believe I have advocated vigilante justice or taking the law into their own hands.

 

I merely stated that Zimmerman has to deal with the consequences of his actions, just like if someone was to attack Zimmerman, they would have to deal with the consequences.

[Jenksismyhero]

I think a distinction needs to be made where "living with the consequences of your actions" means you have to fear for your life because a bunch of uninformed race-baters (sp?) have called for your head over something that you might have had every right to do, and in fact felt obligated (based on fear of your life) to do.

 

There's a line there where he shouldn't be expected to "deal with it."

Edited April 17, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[Y2HH]

I think a distinction needs to be made where "living with the consequences of your actions" means you have to fear for your life because a bunch of uninformed race-baters (sp?) have called for your head over something that you might have had every right to do, and in fact felt obligated (based on fear of your life) to do.

 

There's a line there where he shouldn't be expected to "deal with it."

 

This is well said, and exactly what I meant.

[Soxbadger]

How do you propose we stop someone from being afraid?

 

It doesnt matter what Zimmerman thought he had the right to do, it matters what other people think Zimmerman had the right to do. The United States allows people to have opinions, it allows people to have stupid opinions that can not be supported by any rational fact, it allows people to flat out be wrong.

 

If someone makes a threat against Zimmerman, they should be prosecuted.

 

But what exactly can be done to stop it? You cant stop people from having wrong beliefs, you cant stop people from committing crimes (until we have precogs) so until then all you can do is hope that after the trial people will calm down and live with the verdict.

 

And if someone crosses the line, they should be prosecuted. The same way any other criminal should be dealt with. People are threatened every day for no reason, as a society it is impossible (imo) to stop people from making threats.

 

Its just so speculative to talk about what will happen when Zimmerman is found not guilty.

[Balta1701]

Soxbadger you are what is wrong with America.

There's no way this doesn't cross some line.

[Soxbadger]

I think he was being sarcastic.

[Y2HH]

I think he was being sarcastic.

 

He was.

[StrangeSox]

jesus christ balta

[iamshack]

Part of life is dealing with other people who may not like you. People breaking the law to retaliate, should be treated as criminals and prosecuted. They are 2 different things entirely. I dont believe I have advocated vigilante justice or taking the law into their own hands.

 

I merely stated that Zimmerman has to deal with the consequences of his actions, just like if someone was to attack Zimmerman, they would have to deal with the consequences.

My take on that depends a lot on what comes out in the trial.

 

If he truly had to make a choice between fearing for his life and taking Martin's, I doubt he contemplated this being played 24 hours a day on all the cable news networks prior to pulling the trigger.

 

However, if he went in there looking to shoot a suspicious person because "they always get away with it," then I say tough luck.

[iamshack]

jesus christ balta

Don't even start, because if you start, then he'll start demanding the rest of us call him that, too.

[StrangeSox]

Don't even start, because if you start, then he'll start demanding the rest of us call him that, too.

:lolhitting

[mr_genius]

There's no way this doesn't cross some line.

 

ban him

[StrangeSox]

[mr_genius]

oh nice

[lostfan]

I'd like to see some kind of cross-section between the people who think Zimmerman is not/will not get a fair trial and is being treated unfairly to see how many of them also think that about Jerry Sandusky... just out of curiosity.

 

[southsider2k5]

I'd like to see some kind of cross-section between the people who think Zimmerman is not/will not get a fair trial and is being treated unfairly to see how many of them also think that about Jerry Sandusky... just out of curiosity.

 

There is no way Sandusky gets a fair trial either, especially there.

[Texsox]

How many people here could be on any of those juries and be fair.

[StrangeSox]

Americans are deeply divided by race over the killing of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, with 91 percent of African-Americans saying he was unjustly killed, while just 35 percent of whites thought so

 

The poll also showed a stark racial divide between whites and blacks over whether heavy media coverage of the case had been appropriate. A total of 68 percent of blacks surveyed said they thought the amount of media coverage had been appropriate, while only 24 percent of whites thought it was right.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/12/...E83B1BB20120412

[lostfan]

There is no way Sandusky gets a fair trial either, especially there.

More like... how many of them are bothered by the excessive media coverage, to the point of ranting about it