Trayvon Martin

[BigSqwert]

This is not true. There's a high burden of proof for a plaintiff going after a cop (willful and wanton) than every day citizens (negligence). And it's almost unheard of for cops to be charged criminally with a shooting that ends in death.

 

But again, Zimmerman's not just some vigilante with a gun. He's the neighborhood watch. He's in regular contact with the police department. He's licensed and certified to carry a gun. If he's being trained and certified on an annual basis (to whatever degree you want him to be trained/certified) i'm guessing you still wouldn't like him carrying a gun.

 

All I know is despite the training and the badge, there are a lot of s***ty cops out there. Not sure why you think they're so much better than a well-trained private citizen.

Well-trained private citizen? This guy ignored advice from 911 dispatchers and wound up killing an unarmed minor. Not sure how you can use well-trained in the same breath as George Zimmerman.

[StrangeSox]

I think Balta meant constant radio contact, not frequently calling the police over petty crap.

[Balta1701]

I think Balta meant constant radio contact, not frequently calling the police over petty crap.

Yeah, he approached and confronted the kid while having no idea how far away backup was. That would not be the case with a police officer. He just assumed they were too far away because they had been previously. There was an officer on scene within about 2 minutes of the shooting, if I recall my timeline.

[Y2HH]

Again, gun laws and restrictions only affect law abiding citizens...they do not prevent people that want guns from getting them one way or another, and more often than not, it's those people that use guns incorrectly or illegally. Now, carry laws are a different thing altogether, and that's a different argument than the more simplistic "more restrictions", which has been proven to not work. Just take Chicago, for instance, one of the most restrictive cities in one of the most restrictive states in the Union, and gun violence is mostly contained in Chicago itself...by people that acquired them illegally and use them illegally. It could also be argued that a person as paranoid as Zimmerman appears to be would also acquire a firearm illegally if the restrictions in place prevented him from getting it legally.

 

Guns/firearms cannot be uninvented...banning them would simply create another black market akin to the war on drugs.

[StrangeSox]

Again, gun laws and restrictions only affect law abiding citizens...they do not prevent people that want guns from getting them one way or another, and more often than not, it's those people that use guns incorrectly or illegally.

 

The severe restrictions on automatic weapons has drastically cut down on the availability of those weapons.

 

[Texsox]

I am certain as soon as guns are banned that criminals will throw all of their away, then even the police won't have to carry them.

 

Y'all are painting the millions of honest, law abiding gun owners as the bad guys and protecting the criminals.

 

Cops kill innocent people with guns and are sometimes punished.

Private security personnel kill innocent people with guns and are sometimes punished.

Private citizens kill innocent people with guns and are almost always punished.

 

Cops save life and property by using their guns.

Private security personnel save life and property with their guns.

Private citizens save life and property with their guns.

 

There are levels of risk associated with each scenario. I would rather live in a world where law abiding citizens have the same access as criminals. I don't want to be hiding, hoping the cops find me in time. Cops here shot and killed an eighth grade student who was holding a toy gun. I doubt that made your local newspapers. Zimmerman, shot and killed an unarmed man and it was national, even international news. Why? The difference between a cop killing a kid and a private citizen.

[Balta1701]

I doubt that made your local newspapers. Zimmerman, shot and killed an unarmed man and it was national, even international news. Why? The difference between a cop killing a kid and a private citizen.

Because in one case, the police did everything possible to let the killer get away.

[Texsox]

At 2:52 am this morning someone rang my doorbell. I was faced with the choice of turning off my security system and answering it or not. I know I felt better knowing if it was someone wanting to harm my family that help was closer than a phone call to the police.

[Balta1701]

At 2:52 am this morning someone rang my doorbell. I was faced with the choice of turning off my security system and answering it or not. I know I felt better knowing if it was someone wanting to harm my family that help was closer than a phone call to the police.

And I assume you were at the time driving around the city hunting down vagrants? Otherwise this statement doesn't apply to anything in this thread.

[Texsox]

And I assume you were at the time driving around the city hunting down vagrants? Otherwise this statement doesn't apply to anything in this thread.

 

Really? It seems as if you have said that guns make situations more dangerous.

[Balta1701]

Really? It seems as if you have said that guns make situations more dangerous.

If a person actually cares for them, keeps them appropriately safe, unloaded, and locked at home, isn't carrying them, transports them safely (unloaded, locked), keeps them unloaded, but has the means to access them quickly at home should they feel the need (and there's no one else in the house who can easily figure that lock system out), fine. That is an appropriate level of responsibility in most cases and if people regularly did that it would save several hundred innocent lives per year, minimum.

 

Your gun doesn't threaten me when it is unloaded and locked up. I just hope you don't shoot me if I ring your doorbell at 2:00 a.m. asking for help after a car accident.

[kapkomet]

Yea, keep guns unloaded... inside the safe, when time matters.

 

Now, locked up inside the safe I get but otherwise why have them.

 

[Balta1701]

Yea, keep guns unloaded... inside the safe, when time matters.

 

Now, locked up inside the safe I get but otherwise why have them.

Many, many bad things happen when guns can be accessed too quickly.

 

Why have them is a fairly accurate sentiment. It's a great way to put your families lives at risk. If you insist you have to have them, then no security precaution is too much.

[StrangeSox]

[kapkomet]

Many, many bad things happen when guns can be accessed too quickly.

 

Why have them is a fairly accurate sentiment. It's a great way to put your families lives at risk. If you insist you have to have them, then no security precaution is too much.

 

 

I cannot disagree. I lost a good friend when I was growing up because his brother killed him. I wouldn't ever have my stuff out where my kids could even get to it, ever.

 

But, if you need it for protection, it needs to be for protection and not just in pieces.

[Balta1701]

I cannot disagree. I lost a good friend when I was growing up because his brother killed him. I wouldn't ever have my stuff out where my kids could even get to it, ever.

 

But, if you need it for protection, it needs to be for protection and not just in pieces.

If you can't find a way to both keep it unloaded and locked and also accessible...then unless every other house in your neighborhood is being broken into and the inhabitants raped...then I wouldn't want it. If you're in such a bad area where you absolutely have no choice but to have one (which is frankly incredibly rare in this country), then figure out a way to do it.

[kapkomet]

If you can't find a way to both keep it unloaded and locked and also accessible...then unless every other house in your neighborhood is being broken into and the inhabitants raped...then I wouldn't want it. If you're in such a bad area where you absolutely have no choice but to have one (which is frankly incredibly rare in this country), then figure out a way to do it.

 

I figure unaccessable in a safe but ready to use is about as far as it goes in my mind. And no one should have (ready) guns in that state unless they've had classes on how to use one.

[Texsox]

If a person actually cares for them, keeps them appropriately safe, unloaded, and locked at home, isn't carrying them, transports them safely (unloaded, locked), keeps them unloaded, but has the means to access them quickly at home should they feel the need (and there's no one else in the house who can easily figure that lock system out), fine. That is an appropriate level of responsibility in most cases and if people regularly did that it would save several hundred innocent lives per year, minimum.

 

Your gun doesn't threaten me when it is unloaded and locked up. I just hope you don't shoot me if I ring your doorbell at 2:00 a.m. asking for help after a car accident.

 

In other words hope the police arrive in time while you hide in a closet.

[The Sir]

We don't have kids. In my house, there is myself, my equally gun-crazy/trained girlfriend and our two Siberian huskies. So we don't have to take extra measures to secure the weapons. Each weapon has the selector rotated to safe and a round in the chamber. The SIG 556 is in the master bedroom closet, leaning against the wall. The HK USP .45 is in the nightstand. The Glock 19, compact, and the Springfield 1911 Loaded Version are in the gun safe next to the sofa downstairs. The Mossberg 590A1 is hidden in the coat closet next to the front door.

 

When we have kids, this level of security will change. But until then, our weapons are going to stay at the ready at all times. If you have to access, load and cock your weapons AFTER the bad guys have entered your house, you're in trouble. It removes the whole point of owning weapons for home defense.

[Texsox]

When my kids were younger my guns were basically disabled. Balta would have felt safe in my home. That was the best choice for me in that situation.

[kapkomet]

When my kids were younger my guns were basically disabled. Balta would have felt safe in my home. That was the best choice for me in that situation.

 

 

I don't have anything here but the thought has crossed my mind to have a safe. I wouldn't even tell my kids it existed.

[EvilMonkey]

When I was a kid there was just a gun rack on the wall on my parents bedroom. I owned my first shotgun when I was 12 and have been hunting and shooting since. I grew up around guns, was taught to respect guns and while they were never kept around the house loaded, we all knew where the ammo was if we needed it. Wonder how we all managed to live with those dangerous guns not locked up?

 

My current situation is I have a gun cabinet with a padlock housing the shotgun and rifle. They are unloaded, and ammo locked in the drawer below. The 1911 is in the safe under the bed that can be accessed in about 15 seconds. The gun is unloaded but one of the clips is always full. Have to rotate those so you don't wear out the springs. There is also a baseball bat, courtesy of the White Sox bat day, sitting next to the bed.

[EvilMonkey]

I don't have anything here but the thought has crossed my mind to have a safe. I wouldn't even tell my kids it existed.

My kids know it is there, but they do not know the combination. I have taken both of them out shooting with me before. I am teaching them to respect the power of guns and what they can do. No need to be afraid, but need to respect. So far they like shooting but the 13 year old isn't fond on the shotgun. The older boy is a pretty damn good shot with my rifle tho.

[kapkomet]

This is kind of funny, because most people wouldn't realize this... but we went clay shooting and after about 5 shots of dialing myself in, I didn't miss after that. I have a pretty damn good shot for not practicing.

 

You do bring up something that no one does any more, and that's respect the power of the weapon. Most people think of them as toys and it's sad.

[Balta1701]

This is kind of funny, because most people wouldn't realize this... but we went clay shooting and after about 5 shots of dialing myself in, I didn't miss after that. I have a pretty damn good shot for not practicing.

 

You do bring up something that no one does any more, and that's respect the power of the weapon. Most people think of them as toys and it's sad.

I don't think anyone would be driving around with one while being on a "Neighborhood watch" if they didn't think of it as a toy (at least at some level). Or buying "Concealed weapon pants" or whatever other hip trend there is out there.