Trayvon Martin

[Jenksismyhero]

It seems pretty crass to do so in a thread about a horrible incident in which some dumb ass hunted down an innocent child.

 

Because that's what happened, no doubt about it. GMAB.

[StrangeSox]

That is what happened, no doubt about it. Some dumb ass with a gun thought it was a good idea to follow an innocent kid through the neighborhood and eventually this wound up with him shooting said innocent kid.

 

But that sort of response is exactly why I think your "vigilante!" crap is so crass.

Edited September 6, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

That is what happened, no doubt about it. Some dumb ass with a gun thought it was a good idea to follow an innocent kid through the neighborhood and eventually this wound up with him shooting said innocent kid.

 

But that sort of response is exactly why I think your "vigilante!" crap is so crass.

 

Yep!

[StrangeSox]

Another black teen in Florida gets shot for being black

 

Jordan Russell Davis, 17, and several other teenagers were sitting in a sport utility vehicle in the parking lot when Dunn pulled up next to them in a car and asked them to turn down their music, Schoonover said.

 

Jordan and Dunn exchanged words, and Dunn pulled a gun and shot eight or nine times, striking Jordan twice, Schoonover said. Jordan was sitting in the back seat. No one else was hurt.

 

Dunn's attorney Monday said her client acted responsibly and in self-defense. She did not elaborate.

 

Dunn's girlfriend and the driver of Jordan's vehicle were in Gate Food Post, 8251 Southside Blvd., when the shooting happened. Dunn and his girlfriend took off afterward, and witnesses jotted down their tag number, deputies said.

 

They were staying in a Jacksonville hotel when they heard a news report Saturday morning indicating someone had died in the shooting, deputies said. They then returned to Brevard.

 

Dunn, a gun collector, was arrested Saturday at his home in Satellite Beach on charges of murder and attempted murder. He was being held without bail.

 

wtg, Florida

 

[Jake]

Yeah, I don't see any indication beyond inference that this is race related. Same with Trayvon.

[StrangeSox]

Bunch of black teens in a car playing music too loudly get shot at by a middle-aged white dude. It's not exactly going out on a limb to draw that inference.

[lostfan]

In this case he got arrested and there were witnesses and he's probably gonna get charged and convicted too - it's been lost in the outrage machine since then, but that was the issue with the Trayvon case in the beginning, that they weren't even apparently gonna bother trying to see if Zimmerman was in the wrong.

[bmags]

In this case he got arrested and there were witnesses and he's probably gonna get charged and convicted too - it's been lost in the outrage machine since then, but that was the issue with the Trayvon case in the beginning, that they weren't even apparently gonna bother trying to see if Zimmerman was in the wrong.

 

Thank you.

[Jenksismyhero]

Bunch of black teens in a car playing music too loudly get shot at by a middle-aged white dude. It's not exactly going out on a limb to draw that inference.

 

Then why is this fact relevant?

[mr_genius]

Another black teen in Florida gets shot for being black

 

 

 

wtg, Florida

 

Those super loud car sterios are annoying

[BigSqwert]

Those super loud car sterios are annoying

[StrangeSox]

Then why is this fact relevant?

What?

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/new-photo-of-...the-night-of-tr

 

I guess the prosecutors didn't think this picture would help the defense claim that George was attacked.

[StrangeSox]

yeah, but have you seen the pictures of the other guy? spoiler alert: there's a large hole in his chest.

 

I don't see how this is any different than the one from a few months ago that showed the back of his head cut. People get bloody noses in fights regardless of who instigates said fight. It doesn't really help the claim that he was attacked, only that there was some sort of physical altercation, which wasn't in dispute.

 

edit: jesus christ some of the racism in the comments on that story

Edited December 4, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

edit: jesus christ some of the racism in the comments on that story

 

I go out of my way to NOT read comments in local newspapers, national newspapers, etc...the comments sections are always full of the most ignorant idiots, that if you read them, you actually become dumber wondering how people these days could still think that way. :/

[StrangeSox]

I don't know why I subject myself to them sometimes, but that's a good rule to follow in general. I'm not sure if there's a high troll ratio or just a bunch of horrible people. Given that those comments appear to be facebook-linked, I'm going with the latter.

Edited December 4, 2012 by StrangeSox

[Y2HH]

I don't know why I subject myself to them sometimes, but that's a good rule to follow in general. I'm not sure if there's a high troll ratio or just a bunch of horrible people. Given that those comments appear to be facebook-linked, I'm going with the latter.

 

It's horrible people. Go look at almost any local story on Chicagotribune.com or Suntimes.com, and look at the comments section, it's nothing but astounding stupidity or racism.

[Kyyle23]

Im not blood spatter/nurse/doctor, but dont the wounds on the back of Zimmermans head look like he was sliced by something as opposed to having his head rammed into the concrete over and over?

 

 

[StrangeSox]

People's eyebrows can get split like that by punches, I don't doubt Zimmerman's head hit the ground at some point. Whether it happened repeatedly and whether he initiated the confrontation is another thing altogether, though.

[Jenksismyhero]

What?

 

Why is race relevant when it's clear the issue was loud music? You're making a pretty large leap there to claim he shot them because they were black. The article you linked doesn't read like that at all.

[StrangeSox]

It's not that he shot them "because they were black." It's that it's a reasonable conclusion that he went to tell some 'thugs' to turn their 'music' down while armed with a gun and, due to his prejudices, interpreted something they did as a threat against his life worthy of shooting a teenager to death over. If you check that article or others and look at the comments (which Y2HH wisely advises you not to!), you'll see people who support the shooter with a similar interpretation of the likely events. I'll readily admit that I'm making some assumptions here and judging it in a harsh light.

 

Racism isn't just guys in hoods lynching people, though. It's not explicitly thinking "man, I hate me some n*****s." It's attitudes and prejudices and judgments and beliefs ranging from disgustingly, openly racist to low-level soft bigotry in the way things are perceived or told. It doesn't take a huge leap, imo, to come to the conclusion that a middle-aged Florida white guy who felt the right to tell a bunch of black teens he parked next to to turn their music down and who eventually shot at and killed one of them had some underlying racist beliefs. That doesn't make him someone who goes to klan rallies or posts at StormFront, but it doesn't mean there's not a racial aspect.

 

Who knows, maybe he tells a bunch of white kids blasting Brad Paisley to turn their music down, too, and is armed when he does so.

[StrangeSox]

Comments from Ta-Nehisi on the Jordan Russell shooting, differentiating it from Treyvon at the end as lostfan pointed out

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...l-davis/265704/

 

Dunn claims that someone in car pointed a shotgun at him. The police found no firearms in the car. To which Dunn's lawyer responded:

 

"How hard did they look," Lemonidis said. "Have they done an entire search?"

 

Perhaps not. Perhaps Davis friends dumped the shotgun, as their friend bled to death and then summoned the police.

 

Dunn, for his part, drove off telling his girlfriend he'd "fired at these kids." The couple then checked into a hotel. The next morning, Dunn tuned into the news and learned that Davis had been killed. Later that day he was arrested. An alert witness had jotted down his license plate number.

 

I understand asking a neighbor to turn down their music. I only barely understand being temporarily parked at a convenience store, and asking someone to turn down their music. I don't at all understand shooting in self-defense and then neglecting to call the police. And I really don't understand shooting in self-defense, and neglecting to contact the police even after you've learned that you killed someone.

 

When we think about Stand Your Ground laws, I think it's worth considering the effects of such a law beyond the immediate. Accepting Dunn's story, that Davis had a shotgun and police simply haven't found it yet, it may seem perfectly logical to say, "If you threaten my life, I have the right to take yours." But the argument rests on an shockingly optimistic view of human nature. Guns are power. But we can't really bring ourselves to think about how power might alter our calculus.

 

Dunn's daughter claims that he is a "good person." He may well be. But this is beside the point. It's as if we can't grok the idea that "goodness" is not immunity against evil acts, or even reckless acts. I don't want to put to much pressure on a daughter, who is obviously distraught. But too much is made of "goodness." The powers of human "goodness" are vastly overrated.

 

As an aside, I don't think Trayvon Martin comparisons are necessarily helpful here. The single aggravating factor in Martin's death was the lack of police action.

[Jenksismyhero]

It's not that he shot them "because they were black." It's that it's a reasonable conclusion that he went to tell some 'thugs' to turn their 'music' down while armed with a gun and, due to his prejudices, interpreted something they did as a threat against his life worthy of shooting a teenager to death over. If you check that article or others and look at the comments (which Y2HH wisely advises you not to!), you'll see people who support the shooter with a similar interpretation of the likely events. I'll readily admit that I'm making some assumptions here and judging it in a harsh light.

 

Racism isn't just guys in hoods lynching people, though. It's not explicitly thinking "man, I hate me some n*****s." It's attitudes and prejudices and judgments and beliefs ranging from disgustingly, openly racist to low-level soft bigotry in the way things are perceived or told. It doesn't take a huge leap, imo, to come to the conclusion that a middle-aged Florida white guy who felt the right to tell a bunch of black teens he parked next to to turn their music down and who eventually shot at and killed one of them had some underlying racist beliefs. That doesn't make him someone who goes to klan rallies or posts at StormFront, but it doesn't mean there's not a racial aspect.

 

Who knows, maybe he tells a bunch of white kids blasting Brad Paisley to turn their music down, too, and is armed when he does so.

 

Yet it's abhorrent for Zimmerman to think that Martin was up to no good? GMAB. You can't have it both ways. It's either acceptable to stereotype or it's not.

[EvilMonkey]

It's not that he shot them "because they were black." It's that it's a reasonable conclusion that he went to tell some 'thugs' to turn their 'music' down while armed with a gun and, due to his prejudices, interpreted something they did as a threat against his life worthy of shooting a teenager to death over. If you check that article or others and look at the comments (which Y2HH wisely advises you not to!), you'll see people who support the shooter with a similar interpretation of the likely events. I'll readily admit that I'm making some assumptions here and judging it in a harsh light.

 

Racism isn't just guys in hoods lynching people, though. It's not explicitly thinking "man, I hate me some n*****s." It's attitudes and prejudices and judgments and beliefs ranging from disgustingly, openly racist to low-level soft bigotry in the way things are perceived or told. It doesn't take a huge leap, imo, to come to the conclusion that a middle-aged Florida white guy who felt the right to tell a bunch of black teens he parked next to to turn their music down and who eventually shot at and killed one of them had some underlying racist beliefs. That doesn't make him someone who goes to klan rallies or posts at StormFront, but it doesn't mean there's not a racial aspect.

 

Who knows, maybe he tells a bunch of white kids blasting Brad Paisley to turn their music down, too, and is armed when he does so.

Make that death metal instead of Brad Pailey and it could happen. Racism is also jumping to race as the first and only reason that anythgin happens. Black kid gets shot by a white guy? Racism. Hispanic denied a house loan? Racism. Muslim group denied a mosque building permit in the middle of a residential area? Racism. Too many race hustlers out there screaming at the top of their lungs to defend the victim, if they are a minority, simply because they are a minority.

 

I also never read the comments at the newspaper sites and so on. Made that mistake a few times, doesn't matter the story. A$$holes on parade, both sides of whatever issue it is.

[EvilMonkey]

Yet it's abhorrent for Zimmerman to think that Martin was up to no good? GMAB. You can't have it both ways. It's either acceptable to stereotype or it's not.

He was a 'white' hispanic gun owner. it's ok to stereotype that group. Come on, you know better.