Trayvon Martin

[StrangeSox]

Alright, props to Lebron, Wade and the Miami Heat for this:

 

 

edit: it's an old photo but it was retweeted in support of the Martin family

Edited March 24, 2012 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

We've also got TNC highlighting some recent rulings in Florida that seem completely ridiculous applications of SYG:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...justice/254900/

 

Greyston Garcia was charged with second-degree murder in the slaying of Pedro Roteta, 26, whom he chased for more than a block before stabbing the man.

 

The incident took place on Jan. 25, when Roteta and another youth were behind Garcia's apartment at 201 SW 18th Ct. According to police, Roteta was stealing Garcia's truck radio. Garcia, alerted by a roommate, grabbed a large knife and ran downstairs.

 

He chased Roteta, then stabbed him in a confrontation that lasted less than a minute, according to court documents. The stabbing was caught on video.

 

Roteta was carrying a bag filled with three stolen radios, but no weapon other than a pocketknife, which was unopened in his pocket and which police said he never brandished.

 

After initially denying involvement in the man's death, Garcia admitted to homicide detectives that he attacked Roteta even though "he actually never saw a weapon."

 

Garcia claimed Roteta made a move that he interpreted as a move to stab him -- so he struck first.

Yesterday the judge tossed the case against Garcia. The investigating officer was stunned:

 

Miami police Sgt. Ervens Ford, who supervised the Garcia case, was floored when told Wednesday of the judge's decision. Ford called the law and the decision by Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom a "travesty of justice." "

 

How can it be Stand Your Ground?" said Ford, a longtime homicide investigator who on his off-day on Monday plans to attend a rally in the Trayvon case in Sanford with his two teenage sons. "It's on [surveillance] video! You can see him stabbing the victim . . ."

 

Shortly after 2 a.m., three vehicles were headed south on East Lake Road -- one driven by Brandon Baker, the second by Seth Browning, and the third by Brandon's twin, Christopher Baker. Browning told deputies that he had become concerned about Brandon Baker's driving. In an attempt to get his tag number, Browning followed him onto the frontage road. The third car followed the other two.

 

The vehicles came to a stop, and Brandon Baker got out of his Chevy pickup and aggressively approached Browning's car, deputies said. Browning responded by using pepper spray on Baker and his brother, who was also approaching Browning's car. Deputies say Brandon Baker reached into Browning's vehicle and punched him, and he in turn pulled out his gun and shot Brandon Baker. Browning called 911 and stayed at the scene until sheriff's deputies arrived.

 

I can't escape the the thought that if Baker had, himself, been carrying he might be alive today. He conceivably could have shot Browning--noting that he had been followed for several miles, and then pepper-sprayed him, when he tried to investigate.

 

To me, it seems that if the law keeps resulting in ridiculous circumstances, it's a bad law.

[iamshack]

We've also got TNC highlighting some recent rulings in Florida that seem completely ridiculous applications of SYG:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archiv...justice/254900/

 

 

 

 

 

To me, it seems that if the law keeps resulting in ridiculous circumstances, it's a bad law.

Ok, in the first scenario, the judge just seems to be nuts...and you get judges who make wrong decisions all the time.

 

The second one I really don't understand why you put there...these idiots approached his vehicle aggressively, so he pepper sprayed them. One of them reached inside his car and punched him. Now I'm not saying that shooting one of them at that point was the optimal solution, but I don't think that guy is getting a manslaughter charge or anything if not for the stand your ground law....

[StrangeSox]

There's a witness statement that the police eventually took that the witness claims was only two or three lines long. It doesn't contradict Zimmerman's story thanks to it's brevity, but that doesn't mean it confirms it.

 

[Texsox]

BTW, at this point I see Zimmerman more as a misguided, overzealous, badly-wants-to-be-a-real-cop, Barney Fife type than a racist vigilante looking to kill minorities. That may change. Much like the rent-a-cop that originally was thought of as the Atlanta Olympic bomber.

[Texsox]

Alright, props to Lebron, Wade and the Miami Heat for this:

 

 

edit: it's an old photo but it was retweeted in support of the Martin family

 

I'm wondering what image the Heat were going for when they originally took that photo? Tough guys that will beat you, or angels here to serve and protect?

[StrangeSox]

I'm just hoping Martin ends up being at fault so everyone who jumped on this thing looks like a moron.

 

Why, though?

[StrangeSox]

I'm wondering what image the Heat were going for when they originally took that photo? Tough guys that will beat you, or angels here to serve and protect?

 

lostfan needs to get in here and post his terrifying picture.

[clyons]

Has anyone here listened to the 911 audio and heard the alleged racist slur? I am pretty sure its there, but I don't want to completely discount the power of suggestion.

[Texsox]

lostfan needs to get in here and post his terrifying picture.

lol, that one is scary.

 

To the point, why is it that all of the 8th grade gang kids that are in my school wear hoodies and if you ask them to lower the hood, they start arguing? We're painting hoodies as being harmless, which they are, but the image that many of the kids are trying to build is as some gangster. Congrats, the hoodie has that image, now we're going to complain when the public begins to fear kids in hoodies?

 

 

[Soxbadger]

LOL, exactly.

 

Anyone else read the article claiming that Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him when he was shot? It includes a witness statement confirming it. I dearly hope it's true.

 

This would mean nothing.

 

If Zimmerman pulled a gun on Martin, Martin would have had every right to use force to protect himself. Self Defense goes both ways, you dont just have the right to defend yourself when you have a gun, you have the right to defend yourself whenever your life is threatened or put in danger.

 

Furthermore, since Zimmerman had a gun, Martin would have had to disarm him, meaning that getting on top of him and beating the weapon out of his hand, could have been self defense.

 

This fact alone wont save Zimmerman.

[Texsox]

So two gun carrying people meet in a dark alley they can have a shootout with no one being charged because they are both protecting themselves.

[Soxbadger]

Maybe in Florida, not in the real world.

 

If you follow someone with a gun and instigate a confrontation, generally you dont get to claim self defense. You cant create the fearful situation to take advantage of it. (at least in my opinion).

 

The simple question is, if you had a reasonable fear of your life being ended, would you be following that person? The answer (imo) is no, you would not follow them. The general "self-defense" fact pattern usually involves the person who is being followed, trying to get away, being cornered etc, and then having no choice but to use deadly force.

 

I have yet to see any fact to suggest that after Zimmerman called the police, that he couldnt have chosen to remain safely in his car and not escalate the situation.

[Balta1701]

How about I'll be the one who is truly nuts here and suggest that this wouldn't have happened had it been slightly more difficult or less legal for a random vigilante-wannabe to own and tote around a gun?

[Balta1701]

Maybe in Florida, not in the real world.

 

If you follow someone with a gun and instigate a confrontation, generally you dont get to claim self defense. You cant create the fearful situation to take advantage of it. (at least in my opinion).

 

The simple question is, if you had a reasonable fear of your life being ended, would you be following that person? The answer (imo) is no, you would not follow them. The general "self-defense" fact pattern usually involves the person who is being followed, trying to get away, being cornered etc, and then having no choice but to use deadly force.

 

I have yet to see any fact to suggest that after Zimmerman called the police, that he couldnt have chosen to remain safely in his car and not escalate the situation.

The guy was:

 

1. a neighborhood watch captain, and thus had every legal right to follow around and approach people who were deemed "Suspicious" by him in any way.

2. Licensed to carry a weapon

3. Legally allowed to use that weapon in any case where "Self-defense" could have become a reasonable response.

4. Was actually injured in the confrontation, thus making it quite clear he could take the shot in "Self defense"

 

Everything he did is going to wind up being legal unless there's some way to prove it was a hate crime. This is what the state of Florida, and at least a dozen other states, want to be legal.

[Texsox]

I get tired of the fake national outrage for anything that can easily be painted as something it may not even be.

 

I'm getting that way also.

[mr_genius]

The media is trumping the story as they know they need to work it into their pro-Obama election narrative. They will work the story into "everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist" theme. We have seen this sad exploitation technique before. It also distracts from the fact that Obama has been a huge failure as a president.

[Rex Kickass]

In April of last year, Zimmerman called 911 to report a "suspicious looking 7 to 9 year old black male" in his neighborhood.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012...-abuse-911.html

[StrangeSox]

The media is trumping the story as they know they need to work it into their pro-Obama election narrative. They will work the story into "everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist" theme. We have seen this sad exploitation technique before. It also distracts from the fact that Obama has been a huge failure as a president.

 

racist spotted

[kapkomet]

The media is trumping the story as they know they need to work it into their pro-Obama election narrative. They will work the story into "everyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist" theme. We have seen this sad exploitation technique before. It also distracts from the fact that Obama has been a huge failure as a president.

 

Well, the cockeyed, almost biting the lip, "soul-searching" president was really nice for the effect. After all, the kid had the Obama jeans (er, genes).

 

Would the president have commented if this was a white kid with a hoodie that got shot and killed? I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

The whole thing is faux outrage, just like everything else these days and it's pathetic.

 

The truth is, just like everything else, let the facts come out and then let the system work. If the guy who shot him was out of line, I hope he pays the appropriate consequences. If it was self defense, well, then...

 

Either way, the facts need to establish themselves but why would we let that get in the way of a good racist moment?

[Soxbadger]

For someone who wants the "facts to establish themselves", you sure make a lot of assumptions based on 0 evidence.

 

This has nothing to do with Obama being reelected, come September/October, I seriously doubt you will see any platforms about how you should elect Obama because of Treyvon Martin.

[mr_genius]

racist spotted

 

not going to work. i'm not voting obama, no matter how much ridiculous name calling goes on.

[mr_genius]

In April of last year, Zimmerman called 911 to report a "suspicious looking 7 to 9 year old black male" in his neighborhood.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012...-abuse-911.html

 

he is a dangerous loon.

[Soxbadger]

Voting for Obama or the Republican candidate has nothing to do with race.

 

But this is clearly just an attempt to derail a thread and make it about nonsense.

 

Where do you stand on c&c and syg? You know, the topic at hand.

[mr_genius]

Voting for Obama or the Republican candidate has nothing to do with race.

 

But this is clearly just an attempt to derail a thread and make it about nonsense.

 

Where do you stand on c&c and syg? You know, the topic at hand.

 

i think conceal and carry is up to states to decide. stand your ground law? i don't know that much about it, so i will not comment.

 

but it is very strange when 46 people get shot in Chicago on St Patrick's day on the south side, no media coverage. one person gets shot in FL and it's the main story for weeks/months. clearly the story is being pressed for exploitative political reasons. oh, and by the way, no conceal and carry or stand your ground law in Chicago, and parts of the south side are more dangerous than Iraq. go figure.