Balta1701 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:25 PM) Mark Gonzales @MDGonzales Peavy line: 7 ip, 12 hits, 5 er, 1 bb, 7ks, 104 pitches Is there a line on Stewart yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) Is there a line on Stewart yet? The game starts in 30 minutes. On whitesox.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) He's never had the chance to get AAA hitters out. You don't develop #4-5 starters, you find them. If Stewart is the best option for a long-reliever, it's better off he's in the pen than the Knights starting rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 01:25 PM) Mark Gonzales @MDGonzales Peavy line: 7 ip, 12 hits, 5 er, 1 bb, 7ks, 104 pitches If this is what Peavy is doing in spring training against minor league hitters, then they need to either a) consider moving him to the bullpen, or b) just say goodbye now. They have to pay him anyway, why not use that spot on a developing pitcher like Molina, Castro, Axelrod or Stewart. I have always been a Peavy fan, and have held out hope that he could regain his old stuff back even after the injury, but it seems like you can just put a fork in his starting career. What a major disappointment. I was elated when KW traded for him, too bad that he couldn't stay healthy. He is now a shell of his former self. I don't blame KW for the trade, I blame him for rushing Peavy back from the ankle injury, which basically destroyed Peavy's starting career. JP's only chance is in the 'pen now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:50 PM) If this is what Peavy is doing in spring training against minor league hitters, then they need to either a) consider moving him to the bullpen, or b) just say goodbye now. They have to pay him anyway, why not use that spot on a developing pitcher like Molina, Castro, Axelrod or Stewart. I have always been a Peavy fan, and have held out hope that he could regain his old stuff back even after the injury, but it seems like you can just put a fork in his starting career. What a major disappointment. I was elated when KW traded for him, too bad that he couldn't stay healthy. He is now a shell of his former self. I don't blame KW for the trade, I blame him for rushing Peavy back from the ankle injury, which basically destroyed Peavy's starting career. JP's only chance is in the 'pen now. Why put more stock in this start than his previous two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:53 PM) Why put more stock in this start than his previous two? He threw 104 pitches today, that's what he needed to do. He said he was "working on stuff" earlier in the preseason, then he got annoyed when people asked why he had an ERA over 17 so he went out and started no-hitting people. Doesn't mean he can't spend another start working on stuff as long as he gets the work in that he needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 01:53 PM) Why put more stock in this start than his previous two? because it is against minor league hitters, and he is getting shelled. I watched the start against the Mariners, they had a bunch of AAAA guys in the lineup, I didn't see the other one, but if I recall that one was against minor leaguers as well and didn't he give up like 3 or 4 ER? If you are pitching against minor leaguers you should have a field day making all of them look silly, unless, of course you either a) aren't trying or b) still working on a particular pitch. Given that Opening day is just a week and a half away, I would think that the latter is probably not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) If this is what Peavy is doing in spring training against minor league hitters, then they need to either a) consider moving him to the bullpen, or b) just say goodbye now. They have to pay him anyway, why not use that spot on a developing pitcher like Molina, Castro, Axelrod or Stewart. I have always been a Peavy fan, and have held out hope that he could regain his old stuff back even after the injury, but it seems like you can just put a fork in his starting career. What a major disappointment. I was elated when KW traded for him, too bad that he couldn't stay healthy. He is now a shell of his former self. I don't blame KW for the trade, I blame him for rushing Peavy back from the ankle injury, which basically destroyed Peavy's starting career. JP's only chance is in the 'pen now. Why in god's name would you ever do either of the things you're suggesting? If Peavy is incapable of starting, then the season in sunk. The only reason to diminish Peavy's possible trade value by putting him in the 'pen is because you're somehow competing, or he's blocking a legit prospect who needs to be in the majors ASAP. The latter is untrue at the moment, the former is impossible on March 27th. And why just say goodbye now? What do you gain by that? You gain nothing...at all. You've taken your lottery ticket, whose payoff is an ace-level starter, and torn it up without seeing the results. Sure, it's unlikely that he returns to form, but there is absolutely zero upside to the proposals you've suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Time will tell with Peavy. He could be good enough. He could suck. He could get hurt. One thing is for sure...he's going to be gone in seven months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) because it is against minor league hitters, and he is getting shelled. I watched the start against the Mariners, they had a bunch of AAAA guys in the lineup, I didn't see the other one, but if I recall that one was against minor leaguers as well and didn't he give up like 3 or 4 ER? If you are pitching against minor leaguers you should have a field day making all of them look silly, unless, of course you either a) aren't trying or b) still working on a particular pitch. Given that Opening day is just a week and a half away, I would think that the latter is probably not the case. You have no idea about anything to do with his start, except the numbers posted. You don't know if the threw all fastballs, his velocity was down, he threw all off-speed pitches, or anything, but you are willing to jump to a conclusion based on that? Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) Why in god's name would you ever do either of the things you're suggesting? If Peavy is incapable of starting, then the season in sunk. The only reason to diminish Peavy's possible trade value by putting him in the 'pen is because you're somehow competing, or he's blocking a legit prospect who needs to be in the majors ASAP. The latter is untrue at the moment, the former is impossible on March 27th. And why just say goodbye now? What do you gain by that? You gain nothing...at all. You've taken your lottery ticket, whose payoff is an ace-level starter, and torn it up without seeing the results. Sure, it's unlikely that he returns to form, but there is absolutely zero upside to the proposals you've suggested. I guess it is just sad to see a guy who was once an ace get shelled most starts. Especially when you are a fan of said player. I really think that the rushing back from injury ruined Peavy's arm. They should have kept him shut down in 2009 after they traded for him. I really think you could be talking about an ace on the Sox if that didn't happen. The 2009 season was lost at that point, there was no sense in rushing him back. I blame KW and the Sox staff at the time for rushing him back and ruining his arm. I actually think that Peavy could bring more in a trade as a successful bullpen pitcher than a mediocre to bad starter, which is what he is at this time. Either way, the Sox would have to pick up $$ to trade him. If the Sox refuse to send him to the bullpen, then I think that KW owes it to him to let him find a bullpen spot because of the horrible mismanagement of his ankle injury, which led to the altered mechanics and thus the detached lat.(Peavy himself said this is the causation of that injury last spring in an interview w/Rongey) We saw last year that he can still bring it in short spurts, but cannot do it over 6-7 innings. I could be wrong about Peavy, and he may be back. but this is JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:16 PM) I guess it is just sad to see a guy who was once an ace get shelled most starts. Especially when you are a fan of said player. I really think that the rushing back from injury ruined Peavy's arm. They should have kept him shut down in 2009 after they traded for him. I really think you could be talking about an ace on the Sox if that didn't happen. The 2009 season was lost at that point, there was no sense in rushing him back. I blame KW and the Sox staff at the time for rushing him back and ruining his arm. I actually think that Peavy could bring more in a trade as a successful bullpen pitcher than a mediocre to bad starter, which is what he is at this time. Either way, the Sox would have to pick up $$ to trade him. If the Sox refuse to send him to the bullpen, then I think that KW owes it to him to let him find a bullpen spot because of the horrible mismanagement of his ankle injury, which led to the altered mechanics and thus the detached lat.(Peavy himself said this is the causation of that injury last spring in an interview w/Rongey) We saw last year that he can still bring it in short spurts, but cannot do it over 6-7 innings. I could be wrong about Peavy, and he may be back. but this is JMO. Kenny Williams owes Jake Peavy nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:07 PM) You have no idea about anything to do with his start, except the numbers posted. You don't know if the threw all fastballs, his velocity was down, he threw all off-speed pitches, or anything, but you are willing to jump to a conclusion based on that? Yikes. You are right, I don't know what exactly he was doing with the pitches. Who throws all of the same pitch even in spring training? Anyway, I want the guy to come back as a starter, and be that ace we are all wanting him to be. I just don't understand why a major league pitcher gets shelled against minor league hitters, unless the two things I said recently are true or something that just popped into my head, which is dead arm. I guess I jumped the gun on this one. I'm not one who doesn't admit when I'm wrong. Rule #1-think before you post. I didn't. My Bad. I maintain, however, that if Peavy has a rough first 7-10 starts and his velocity is where it was last year, that they move him to the bullpen or cut him and let him catch on with another team as a reliever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:31 PM) Kenny Williams owes Jake Peavy nothing. I will go on record and say I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:31 PM) Kenny Williams owes Jake Peavy nothing. That is your opinion. When you take advantage of a player's personality to prove a point to the fans, consequences for the player and your team be damned, I disagree. The Sox organization mismanaged his ankle injury. It is like, hey we f***ed up your arm, now you can't do your job, and we're going to prevent you from trying to do a different job. Good Luck. KW should have been fired over this issue. Yes, Peavy had violent mechanics to begin with. But when you know that, shouldn't you do your best as an organization to keep your highest paid player as healthy as possible? They didn't. Edited March 27, 2012 by Elgin Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 04:45 PM) That is your opinion. When you take advantage of a player's personality to prove a point to the fans, consequences for the player and your team be damned, I disagree. The Sox organization mismanaged his ankle injury. It is like, hey we f***ed up your arm, now you can't do your job, and we're going to prevent you from trying to do a different job. KW should have been fired over this issue. I think you're drastically overstating the relationship between the Sox' actions and his shoulder separation. It's far from a slam-dunk to say that injury ONLY occurred because Peavy pushed himself. The first few months of the next season, Peavy had the opportunity to shore up his mechanics, but didn't. The Sox' actions may have induced a few bad habits but Peavy had plenty of time to correct them. And that's all assuming that his mechanics had anything to do with it. As an unprecedented injury, nobody can say with any conviction what caused the injury to happen. It's all speculation, and your narrative sounds nice to you (and others), but it's not necessarily correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) That is your opinion. When you take advantage of a player's personality to prove a point to the fans, consequences for the player and your team be damned, I disagree. The Sox organization mismanaged his ankle injury. It is like, hey we f***ed up your arm, now you can't do your job, and we're going to prevent you from trying to do a different job. KW should have been fired over this issue. Everything I read said it was Peavy who pushed to get back, not the Sox pushing him. Well I guess I should amend that to say everything outside of Joe Cowardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) That is your opinion. When you take advantage of a player's personality to prove a point to the fans, consequences for the player and your team be damned, I disagree. The Sox organization mismanaged his ankle injury. It is like, hey we f***ed up your arm, now you can't do your job, and we're going to prevent you from trying to do a different job. KW should have been fired over this issue. How did the Sox screw up his arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Scott Merkin @scottmerkin Stewart down 1-0 but has looked good for three. I give him an edge for one of the last relief spots, for what it's worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 02:52 PM) How did the Sox screw up his arm? Peavy said in an interview w/Rongey last spring that he shouldn't have pitched in 2009 because his ankle wasn't ready yet. He further elaborated on it saying that he changed his mechanics to compensate for the ankle injury, and that the altered mechanics caused his detached lat. The Sox were out of the race by September 2009, they should have shut him down at that point let him heal. The Padres shut him down for the year after he hurt himself. The Sox tried to rush him back when he wasn't healthy enough to pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) Peavy said in an interview w/Rongey last spring that he shouldn't have pitched in 2009 because his ankle wasn't ready yet. He further elaborated on it saying that he changed his mechanics to compensate for the ankle injury, and that the altered mechanics caused his detached lat. The Sox were out of the race by September 2009, they should have shut him down at that point let him heal. The Padres shut him down for the year after he hurt himself. The Sox tried to rush him back when he wasn't healthy enough to pitch. Jake likes to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) Peavy said in an interview w/Rongey last spring that he shouldn't have pitched in 2009 because his ankle wasn't ready yet. He further elaborated on it saying that he changed his mechanics to compensate for the ankle injury, and that the altered mechanics caused his detached lat. The Sox were out of the race by September 2009, they should have shut him down at that point let him heal. The Padres shut him down for the year after he hurt himself. The Sox tried to rush him back when he wasn't healthy enough to pitch. This is also a great 20/20 hindsight point. Peavy came out in those 3 2009 starts and absolutely dominated...and I think everyone wanted to see him pitch, Peavy included, to build confidence for the next season. Nobody would have guessed at the time that "Destroying people 3 straight starts" would be a terrible thing for his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) Peavy said in an interview w/Rongey last spring that he shouldn't have pitched in 2009 because his ankle wasn't ready yet. He further elaborated on it saying that he changed his mechanics to compensate for the ankle injury, and that the altered mechanics caused his detached lat. The Sox were out of the race by September 2009, they should have shut him down at that point let him heal. The Padres shut him down for the year after he hurt himself. The Sox tried to rush him back when he wasn't healthy enough to pitch. Absolutely cannot believe such a judgment from Peavy, who has no expertise in injuries or kinesiology. It's his best explanation, but not nearly a definitive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 04:04 PM) This is also a great 20/20 hindsight point. Peavy came out in those 3 2009 starts and absolutely dominated...and I think everyone wanted to see him pitch, Peavy included, to build confidence for the next season. Nobody would have guessed at the time that "Destroying people 3 straight starts" would be a terrible thing for his body. I remember thinking during those starts that something was wrong because his velocity was down. When he started getting shelled at the beginning of the 2010 season I put the pieces together. Also, does anyone remember the thing about him going to video of his pitching in SD about end of May 2010? After that he was pitching well but then they had to shut him down with the "fluid in the shoulder" but they kept pitching him anyway until the lat tore off the bone. IMO, horrible mismanagement of his injury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Mar 27, 2012 -> 05:11 PM) I remember thinking during those starts that something was wrong because his velocity was down. When he started getting shelled at the beginning of the 2010 season I put the pieces together. Also, does anyone remember the thing about him going to video of his pitching in SD about end of May 2010? After that he was pitching well but then they had to shut him down with the "fluid in the shoulder" but they kept pitching him anyway until the lat tore off the bone. IMO, horrible mismanagement of his injury Yes, they should have foreseen this injury that has never happened before in the history of pitching... These things aren't warning signs that lead you to believe anything drastic will occur. Herm Schneider is one of the most well-respected trainers in the game, and I have no doubt they were monitoring Peavy for signs of all the common, and probably some uncommon, injuries. Again, this has never happened before ever ever ever. There's no trainer in baseball that could have predicted a latissimus separation, and nobody knows what caused it...all we have are idle speculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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