caulfield12 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 (edited) 52 IP, 81 H, 43 ER, 18 BB, 34 K's. 7.44 ERA That's what Zach Stewart would have produced last year at the major league level (both TOR and CHW) if you subtract the two times he faced the Twins when they had their AA/AAA line-ups and almost all of their best players were sitting. It's getting close to the time where we have to admit Cooper can't work magic with every single Jeff Marquez or Stewart that comes along. Not because of the 5 runs he gave up today in 2 innings of garbage time, but there's just nothing that makes one believe that he can be a consistently successful starter at the big league level. Let's just call that Edwin Jackson trade what it was. A salary dump to cover the ill-advised signing of Mark Teahen to that three-year extension which was totally unnecessary and unwarranted, based on "hope and faith" from Buddy Bell. Thankfully, we also were able to get something back for Jason Frasor ($800,000 worth of pitching, at least in terms of their signing dollars)...but the ship is sailing as far as Stewart making a significant contribution to the Sox. I'll be the first one to apologize to Zach, but just not seeing it. It sucks we have basically nothing to show for Edwin Jackson. KW can't afford to make that mistake again on Nestor Molina. Edited April 1, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 1, 2012 -> 07:57 PM) It's getting close to the time where we have to admit Cooper can't work magic with every single Jeff Marquez or Stewart that comes along. Not because of the 5 runs he gave up today in 2 innings of garbage time, but there's just nothing that makes one believe that he can be a consistently successful starter at the big league level. Dude, he's a 25 year old who the Blue Jays bounced back and forth between being a starter and a MLB pitcher, and the Sox have had him for less than 12 months. Going into his 25 year old season, the Phillies had given up Gavin Floyd for nothing, Jon Garland had been putting up ERA's close to 5 despite having 3 full MLB seasons under his belt, Matt Thornton was 2 years away from ever seeing the big leagues, Brandon McCarthy was throwing the first 2 seam fastball of his career, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 1, 2012 -> 07:49 PM) Dude, he's a 25 year old who the Blue Jays bounced back and forth between being a starter and a MLB pitcher, and the Sox have had him for less than 12 months. Going into his 25 year old season, the Phillies had given up Gavin Floyd for nothing, Jon Garland had been putting up ERA's close to 5 despite having 3 full MLB seasons under his belt, Matt Thornton was 2 years away from ever seeing the big leagues, Brandon McCarthy was throwing the first 2 seam fastball of his career, etc. I don't have anything else to add. This guy has what is IMO the best pitch in baseball -- a fast two seamer. Let him develop some more, let's see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 1, 2012 -> 09:08 PM) I don't have anything else to add. This guy has what is IMO the best pitch in baseball -- a fast two seamer. Let him develop some more, let's see what happens. Actually, I'm not a huge fan of his 2-seamer right now, I think that's his biggest weakness and why he got hit hard yesterday...he doesn't get the kind of sink on that pitch he needs to. I don't think he's getting "On top of it" enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 1, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Dude, he's a 25 year old who the Blue Jays bounced back and forth between being a starter and a MLB pitcher, and the Sox have had him for less than 12 months. Going into his 25 year old season, the Phillies had given up Gavin Floyd for nothing, Jon Garland had been putting up ERA's close to 5 despite having 3 full MLB seasons under his belt, Matt Thornton was 2 years away from ever seeing the big leagues, Brandon McCarthy was throwing the first 2 seam fastball of his career, etc. Huge difference between Floyd & Stewart's arm. Stewart at best is a reliever. There is very little I like about him the more I see him. The dude is vanilla with a side of vanilla. His 2 seamer isn't anything special and that is supposed to be his best pitch. Other than clearing some payroll, that deal is looking pretty bad (since Stewart was the big piece). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 06:14 AM) Actually, I'm not a huge fan of his 2-seamer right now, I think that's his biggest weakness and why he got hit hard yesterday...he doesn't get the kind of sink on that pitch he needs to. I don't think he's getting "On top of it" enough. You realize that is his best pitch right? His best pitch isn't even very good. Unless this guy makes some huge strides, he is nothing to get excited about. At least not as a starter. I don't even think he's a sure fire reliever. Given that the Sox gave up a pretty valuable chip in Edwin Jackson to get him (who would have got you draft picks), its pretty disappointing (I do realize we also gave up Teahen so that negated Jackson's value a bit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 10:48 AM) You realize that is his best pitch right? His best pitch isn't even very good. Unless this guy makes some huge strides, he is nothing to get excited about. At least not as a starter. I don't even think he's a sure fire reliever. Given that the Sox gave up a pretty valuable chip in Edwin Jackson to get him (who would have got you draft picks), its pretty disappointing (I do realize we also gave up Teahen so that negated Jackson's value a bit). Yes, his 2 seamer is supposed to be his best pitch...but he really strikes me as a guy who needs innings in order to get the feel of it down, which is why I wanted to see him at Charlotte as a starter, getting innings in an unforgiving park. But that's not my call, so oh well. Would Jackson have actually produced draft picks after the rule change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I haven't seen his 2 seamer since I was able to a handful of times last fall. He had some MacDougal-esque movement a handful of times with that thing. I'd like to see him starting in AAA and give him more time to put things together. Tweaking that 2 seamer could be literally all he has to do to find moderate success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Maybe they're gonna have him work with Coop and take the Sale route to starting in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 I've said for a while now that he should have started the year in the minors to actually prove he can be anything better than an average minor league pitcher as a starter in the higher levels. As it stands now, hopefully he's just used as a mop-up man when the outcome of the game is out of question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Geez, a bit harsh on Zack. He just cut his mullet, give the guy some time to adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Apr 2, 2012 -> 01:27 PM) Maybe they're gonna have him work with Coop and take the Sale route to starting in the future? That's got to be the real line of thinking. That and Cooper is saying he's probably a reliever long-term anyway, so why spend the time trying to make him a starter? But...they better have either Castro or Molina, or preferably both, ready to take rotation slots next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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